Primary in a wine barrel

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Feurhund

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Have a 35 gallon wine barrel and all the bugs/ingredients to brew and fill it with a pLambic.
My question is, should I fill it up leaving just enough room for pitching for primary? Or should I fill it to 2/3 or some lesser volume to leave room for Krausen and then top off with Fermented? Or fresh wort? After it dies down?
Thanks for the input an any other barrel/pLambic tips welcome.
 
Here's a tip: never, ever use that nonsensical plambic term. It's just lambic. If you don't call other beers associated with a location by something with a p, don't do it with lambic. It's not a pkolsch, pdortmunder, ppilsner, pflanders red, pCDA, pIPA, pTexas Brown, etc.

You definitely need to account for krausen. You could leave the barrel partially filled during primary fermentation but when you add the rest of the wort it's going to kick off another fermentation and the blow off will have to go somewhere. Easiest thing to do is ferment elsewhere and use the barrel for secondary aging. If that's not an option I guess you could leave a few gallons out, ferment all the rest in the barrel and separately ferment the left out portion and add it back in the barrel after all fermentation has ended.
 
Thank you for the tips. I will most likely ferment out another 5 gallons separate and then corny keg it to use to do initial and then extended top off during aging.
As for the pLambic term. Lambic is an Appellation Controllee, like Champagne and protects it's uniqueness and the fact that it requires spontaneous fermentation in the Senne Valley.
I am glad that other brewers can't market as a Lambic and either Turn off or pull away customers from traditional Lambic. Although I could complain about Lindemanns for all the people that think Lambic is sweet. And somehow Sam Adams gets away with Cranberry Lambic, one of my least favorite beers.
But back on topic thanks for the guidance and I look forward to the journey.
 
Thank you for the tips. I will most likely ferment out another 5 gallons separate and then corny keg it to use to do initial and then extended top off during aging.
As for the pLambic term. Lambic is an Appellation Controllee, like Champagne and protects it's uniqueness and the fact that it requires spontaneous fermentation in the Senne Valley.
I am glad that other brewers can't market as a Lambic and either Turn off or pull away customers from traditional Lambic. Although I could complain about Lindemanns for all the people that think Lambic is sweet. And somehow Sam Adams gets away with Cranberry Lambic, one of my least favorite beers.
But back on topic thanks for the guidance and I look forward to the journey.

It's a controlled appellation in the EU. People here are free to do as they like. It brings up an interesting question: is champagne really champagne because it's made in the Champagne region or is it really champagne because it follows the champagne method?

Not all lambic producers think of lambic as something that can only be created in one part of the world. I seem to recall van Roys at Cantillon in an interview on one of the BN shows saying you could make your own lambic because lambic is really just spontaneously fermented beer. I've read similar comments from others. It just depends on whether you think lambic is a particular product or a production style. What we do when we pitch from a controlled yeast blend really isn't either but the flavor profile is most like lambic. You're obviously free to use that plambic term but that's rather outmoded and unnecessary.
 
I get your point. Would make more sense to just call it a Sour Ale in the Lambic style or whatnot if you are preserving the Lambic label.

What the hell, I'm brewing a Lambic! Only in Massachusetts.

I am just excited to let this barrel get funky and age a year or two. The plan is to ferment 2 five gallon carboys along side the barrel with oak cubes and different bugs each so there will be a variety for blending later and then the barrel will get solera'd.
 
i primary-ed in my barrel and it did krausen up - i have a pic somewhere - it looks like a mushroom cloud billowing out of the top. I left about four fingers of headspace below the bunghole. I just let the krausen run all down the sides and onto the floor, then when it was done- i topped off, and yes did spark another fermentation, but didn't lose as much beer. I have to add maybe a half gallon every couple months to keep pretty full so my wood on the top stays wet- i make a starter (usually with brett and dregs) and add that after fermentation has slowed.
 
Wow, that isn't tasteless at all. /\/\

Kräusen will happen but that's why primary is always done with something to just let the activity out, while not allowing bugs in. I'm also not too sure about the appellation contrôlée. I have heard it before, but there are plenty of beers not made in Pajottenland that are allowed to call themselves lambic. HORAL has tried, and failed to procure such law. And Jean Van Roy doesn't even think they have a chance, that's why he isn't even consorting with them. Among other reasons.
 
I agree with what has been said above. I don't agree that "Lambic" can only be made in Belgium (Jean Van Roy has stated the same), and I find it silly to use a term such as Pseudo Lambic, or pLambic. I call it Lambic. For those who get hung up on this, I tell them its an "American Lambic".

As for leaving space in the head of the barrel, I would recommend doing it. The primary fermentation is very active for lambics and filling the barrel too high will only result in loss. On a 35 gallon barrel, I would recommend leaving 5-10 gallons out and allow it to do the primary fermentation in a glass carboy. Then once wort in both the barrel and carboy have completed primary, rack over the contents in the carboy to top off the barrel. It would be important to not leave too much of a headspace in a smaller barrel like that for the long term aging.
 
Here is a shot of the barrel and stand with my Kal clone electric brewery in the back.

I will be pushing my system to the max to squeeze out the 45 gallons necessary for the project. 35 in barrel and 2 five gallon carboys for top off and later blending(diff bugs)

image-3706978191.jpg
 
You can do what you want, but I can almost guarantee you are going to end up with vinegar if you use that barrel.
 
Levi,

On what basis are you assuming I will get Acetobacter? The barrel had Zinfandel in it for a year and then was dumped, rinsed, dried and sulfered.

I rinsed it with boiling water and steam and it has been holding that water without loss or leak for two weeks. Why do you think it is compromised. It smelled only slightly of wine and wood, no vinegar when I got it.
 
Levi,

On what basis are you assuming I will get Acetobacter? The barrel had Zinfandel in it for a year and then was dumped, rinsed, dried and sulfered.

I rinsed it with boiling water and steam and it has been holding that water without loss or leak for two weeks. Why do you think it is compromised. It smelled only slightly of wine and wood, no vinegar when I got it.

I think the reason why the concern for acetobacter is that if the barrel has dead space then it will be filled by O2 at some point, creating acetic acid (vinegar). I don't have Wild Brews in front of me, but I am pretty sure that lambics are primaried in the barrel. I would recommend reading that book if you want to ferment in a barrel.

In my solera, I fermented some beer with WLP550 in carboys and then transferred to the barrel with some beer fermented with Roselare. I purged the entire barrel with CO2 before I added any of the beer. The barrel did get "horny" and I had a nice mess to clean up after I filled it up.

There is a way that you could prevent the horniness from causing a huge mess. You could hook up a blow off tube to the barrel and primary that way. I would also have some beer ready to transfer in once the primary is completed. I would also recommend purging with CO2 before you add that batch to the barrel.

On the subject of the plambic/champagne debate: Champagne only comes from the Champagne region of France. If it does not come from Champagne it is considered a sparkling wine (I personally prefer sparkling wine from Oregon). Personally, I think you're cool calling it a plambic. It becomes a silly debate and one not worth having. It's beer and by its very nature should never be as pretentious as most people perceive wine.
 
Yes. That is what I intend to do.

I just didn't understand the comment as he said he can be sure I will get vinegar with that barrel. It sounded like he was basing it on the way it looked in the photo.
 
it sounds like you are doing everything right- i don't get vinegar in my barrels- i do top with argon anytime i pull the bung, but there is also a pellicle in the barrel which is protecting the beer from the o2 in the headspace- as for the o2 permeating the wood and getting into the liquid- well, that's kind of the point of using a barrel for a wild beer, and is unavoidable, regardless of headspace.
 
Thanks for the reassurance. Levi got me a little paranoid as I though maybe he was a barrel expert and gleaned something from the photo I posted.
Really excited to get this going and just have to get some free time. I have a one gallon starter of various dregs, RR, Cantillon, Jolly Pumpkin etc, a vial of Brett trois and brux, and I have a trade in process for ECY Bugfarm. It should get pretty Horny up in there.
I will keep the thread updated as I go. Thanks for the feedback
 
levi was trying to quell a desire to use a barrel that had been sitting empty for three years...
 
So what ever came of your adventure?

Sorry to necro... but it isn't really since sours can take years right?
 
No worries. Just glad I have consensus that the process is sound. Now just to find the time.

Not sorry to necro! I think that's what this sub is for... any update Feurhund? Any wisdom you can share for others like me getting close to aging and fermenting in proper wine barrels?
 
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