No consistency

Brewer's Friend 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Dude

Dude

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Messages
8,768
Reaction score
143
Location
Ramstein-Miesenbach
For teh life of me, I cannot replicate a previous brew. My last 2 attempts have been failures. I am still tryign to replicate the first ever batch of LWPA I made. Can't get it right in 3 other attempts. The last one is the closest, and with some age might overtake the inaugural batch...but the 2 in between weren't very good.

The first time I made the Pub Ale it was SO great. It was a beer I was SO proud of. The latest version is pretty much undrinkable--no balance and really harsh bitterness. I did the exact same recipe. :eek:

The latest Red Eye Rye is an ok beer (drinking a carbed up hydro sample right now) but it isn't anywhere close to the last one. That was a nice, spicy, hoppy beer and this one doesn't have that so far. It tastes muddy, not crisp like the last one. I hope this gets better with age.

Anyway, on the consistency issue...I keep great notes. Guess not "great" enough, eh?
 
How much does your water profile change on an annual basis? Up here ours swings wildly because of spring run-off. Just a thought, since you mentioned hop profiles.
 
Chairman Cheyco said:
How much does your water profile change on an annual basis? Up here ours swings wildly because of spring run-off. Just a thought, since you mentioned hop profiles.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet it is fairly consistent.

I do have to wonder though--both of those previous beers were brewed at teh old house. Wonder if the reservoir is different across town. Hmmmmm....
 
You know how my luck was running; don't ask me! :eek: My two batches in the wings better come out stellar since I replaced a bunch of hoses etc and went new yeast for both. I feel your pain.
 
Not sure I've ever been able to make the exact same brew twice either. Actually I'm not sure I've ever tried! Even beers I love, I somehow can't resist tweaking the hops or using a different yeast or basemalt, or crystal malt brand or whatever.
Maybe if you tell us some about your pub ale, and the first go in particular, we can help you recreate the goodness if not the exact beer.
 
Dude:
I keep coming back to this post and wondering how we can help solve this problem. I think that you are not alone in this. If we all examine our beer we would have to admit there is a consistency problem. I know you use Beer Tools Pro. Have you tried using the edit feature to customize your ingredients to match the analysis sheets for each one. This will add to the record keeping you have for each brew and maybe help pin point where adjustments can be made.
I have been reading about water and malt analysis and the effects it has on mash acidity, hop utilization and S.G. How even a moisture content difference of 2% can affect the S.G. by .002 or .5 degree Plato. Or how too much SO4 can lead to a harshness in the bitterness.
Palmer covers water pretty well in chapter 15 , as does Noonan in Brewing Lager Beer. Noonan also wrote an article on line called Understanding Malt Analysis Sheets.
I Know I didn't give much feed back on your specific problems, but I'm still new to this and trying to learn as much as possible. I hope you or others here can use some of these resources and figure out the problems. That is why we are all here isn't it?

al
 
My only thought would be different water as well--are you on the same municipal water as in the previous house?
 
This all probably seems pretty obvious to you but it wasn't to me at first. I'm really just kinda thinking out loud in hopes that one of these points might jump out at you and help.

first I would say check your water. harness (mineral content), PH...

take gravity readings of your wort pre boil as well. when I first went all grain I wasn't doing this and when I started I realized that my efficiency was all over the board.

check your sanitation as well.

measure hops by aau and not weight.

make starters and check their gravity.

Insulate and regulate your fermentation temperature.

shoot for consistent ageing and aging conditions. (light, temp...)
 
How controlled is your environment? Did your groundwater temp change? Was it more or less humid or cold on each day? Did you store your grains in a freezer prior to use to prevent humidity absorbtion? How about your hops, are you sure they're safe? Did you buy your grains from the same place?

Basically, how much of a carbon copy were the two batches, apart from just the basic recipe? How were your brewdays different?
 
Maybe I'm at a "lower" stage than you dude, but I can't even get consistency from the same batch. Different bottles in the same batch taster quite different.

I'd guess the water myself aswell. Especially since you moved. Regardless of whether the source water is the same the condition of your plumbing could be quite different. Did your house switch from copper to iron pipe? Is the iron pipe older or newer? Have you ever seen all the crud inside your pipes?
 
onecolumbyte said:
Maybe I'm at a "lower" stage than you dude, but I can't even get consistency from the same batch. Different bottles in the same batch taster quite different.
Click to expand...

do you mean when you open two bottles at the same time? cause you should have some consistency there. now if you are talking about two bottles a week apart that is a different story and to be expected. I would look into your bottle cleaning and sanitizing techniques.
 
Dude - Look at the difference here, these are your two pub ales.

The 1st one is what I copied from last year, the other is what you have in your sig now. Check your post in the recipes too, they are all slightly different.

Check out the yeast, malt and toasted malts....

...you also didn't have a mash-out listed.

Temps look different too. You advised me to use 163'F strike water in a PM.

I hope this helps...

OH BTW did you change brewing software??? See if you can retrieve the other recipes.

Pub Ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
08-A English Pale Ale, Standard/Ordinary Bitter
Min OG: 1.032 Max OG: 1.040
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 8.00
Anticipated OG: 1.041 Plato: 10.27
Anticipated SRM: 11.4
Anticipated IBU: 28.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
56.3 4.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
12.5 1.00 lbs. Toasted Malt(2-row) America 1.033 30
6.3 0.50 lbs. Flaked Oats America 1.033 2
6.3 0.50 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034 60
6.3 0.50 lbs. Brown Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 60
6.3 0.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
6.3 0.50 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
1.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.75 26.4 60 min
0.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.75 1.8 5 min

Yeast
White Labs WLP005 British Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Single Step
Grain Lbs: 7.50
Water Qts: 9.38 Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 2.35 Before Additional Infusions
Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 Before Additional Infusions

Rest Temp Time
Saccharification Rest: 151 60 Min
Mash-out Rest: 0 0 Min
Sparge: 0 0 Min

Total Mash Volume Gal: 2.95 - Dough-In Infusion Only
All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
Notes
Shooting for my twist on Boddington's pub ale.

Brown sugar prep: Heat with 1/2 cup water in saucepan until boiling, cool slightly and add to kettle with 15 minutes left.

Toasted Malt: Toast 1 lb. 2-row in 275° oven for 30 minutes, stirring once halfway through.

Awards
1st Place Dominion Cup 2006​

VERSES

Pub Ale
8-A Standard/Ordinary Bitter



Size: 5.5 gal
Efficiency: 80.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 136.18 per 12.0 fl oz


Original Gravity: 1.041 (1.032 - 1.040)
|==========================#=====|

Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (1.007 - 1.011)
|=====================#==========|

Color: 9.2 (4.0 - 14.0)
|================#===============|

Alcohol: 4.03% (3.2% - 3.8%)
|==============================#=|

Bitterness: 34.54 (25.0 - 35.0)
|=======================#========|

Ingredients:
Grains/Syrups:

4.0 lbs Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
1.5 lbs Toasted Pale Malt
0.5 lbs Crystal Malt 60°L
0.5 lbs Oats Flaked
0.5 lbs Wheat Flaked
0.5 lbs 2-Row Carapils® Malt
0.5 lbs Light Brown Sugar


Hops:

1.5 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
0.5 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 5.0 min


Misc:

1.0 ea Whirlfloc Tablets (Irish moss) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min


Yeast:

1.0 ea WYeast 1187 Ringwood Ale


Schedule:
Mash In - Liquor: 2.06 gal; Strike: 170.0 °F
Sacc. Rest - Rest: 60 min
Infusion For Sacc. Rest - Water: 3.13 gal; Temperature: 100.0 °C
Batch Sparge - First Runnings: 2.43 gal sparge @ 168.0 °F, 3.93 gal collected, 15.0 min; Batch #1: 2.54 qt sparge @ 168.0 °F, 2.06 gal collected, 15.0 min; Batch #2: 2.57 qt sparge @ 168.0 °F, 2.0 gal collected, 15.0 min; Total Runoff: 8.0 gal​
 
Have you changed the "brands" of malts that you use?
I have found that malts from different maltsters can give very different results, and even if you stick to one maltster, there will be minor variations from batch to batch.

-a.
 
Ok, maybe the recipe was changed ever so slightly--but those variables are not going to affect the beer that noticably. A half pound more of toasted malt won't alter the recipe that much. If I had used different yeast--then I'd suspect that. Not so in this case though.

I've got to narrow down the difference in this case (the pub ale) to either water or hops. The malt background is there--so I am eliminating the grain bill as a problem. I wonder if it is the particular crop of hops. I wonder if using American Goldings vs. EKG is the difference. I am leaning towards that as being the problem.

I doubt it is my water profile despite moving across town....but it could be possible.
 
Dude said:
I doubt it is my water profile despite moving across town....but it could be possible.
Click to expand...
From what I've heard, the water can vary in different parts of town. Some cities get their water from more than one source. I think that some even change the source at different times of the year.
 
I use bottled water but at $.65/gallon that can add considerable cost to a batch, 6.50 for a 10 gallon boil.

Might be worth it to try and at least limit one aspect in your troubleshooting.
 
Dude said:
Post #1
The first time I made the Pub Ale it was SO great. It was a beer I was SO proud of. The latest version is pretty much undrinkable--no balance and really harsh bitterness. I did the exact same recipe.

Post #14
Ok, maybe the recipe was changed ever so slightly--but those variables are not going to affect the beer that noticably. A half pound more of toasted malt won't alter the recipe that much. If I had used different yeast--then I'd suspect that. Not so in this case though.

I've got to narrow down the difference in this case (the pub ale) to either water or hops. The malt background is there--so I am eliminating the grain bill as a problem. I wonder if it is the particular crop of hops. I wonder if using American Goldings vs. EKG is the difference. I am leaning towards that as being the problem.

I doubt it is my water profile despite moving across town....but it could be possible.
Click to expand...

I was thinking from a consistency standpoint you should revert to the old recipe. Back to the drawing board so to speak.

Your doing a single step infusion mash, but on the new recipe your strike temp is higher and you had no mash out on the original. I was curious about that.

You are on the right track with water possibly. It can change. I work with glass washing in my job and the pH is critical in the process. This one public utility draws water from two aquafers. One of which takes water run-off from an area where livestock is nearby. Hog confinements in particular. (Pig Sh*t is extremely acidic) So the water into this plant has pH very close to 6. We treat the water with reverse osmosis and it knocks the pH to 5. Some days the utility is using the other aquafer and the water going into the plant is a pH of 8 with 1 point knock down to 7. A two pH point fluctuation.

It might be worth investing in a pH gauge if you don't have one. If you use a digital the bulbs can dry-out and get very unaccurate. Calibrate with a 4 & 7 standard lab grade pH solution. If you have already done this call the public water works. Make inquiries.

All else fails make your own water with distilled & burton salts/gysum and etc. You could buy it too for one brewing... Walmart water is 58 cents/gal "Spring Water" I'd say its worth the money if you have a few ruined batches.

Good Luck!!

:mug:
 
Dude...

I was thinking about this thread. Didn't you mention that you recently switched from manifold to braid and that it boosted your efficiency? Could that be the issue?
 

Similar threads

Ali01
Is us05 clean at 18c?
Replies
10
Views
616
hottpeper13
H
N
End results with low mash efficiency
Replies
13
Views
785
doug293cz
doug293cz
C
Beer came out wrong
Replies
29
Views
1K
FloppyKnockers
FloppyKnockers
TeflonTom
Troubles with Haze
Replies
5
Views
653
Jag75
Jag75
DJL531
Are my hops still good
Replies
15
Views
618
MaxStout
MaxStout

Latest posts

Back
Top