The Mash or Boil Pumpkin Debate Continues

I've been having a discussion on another site about pumpkin beers and a debate has started over mashing verses boiling the pumpkin.
This BYO article was brought up and 3 professional brewers say that although it is a pain in the arse, the pumpkin should be mashed.
http://byo.com/departments/816.html
This one, which has been referenced here a lot, says to put the pumpkin into the boil.
http://www.audioholics.com/showcase/DIY/PumpkinAleRecipe.html
Now I can honestly say: I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!

Are there any folks out there that have made good pumpkin beers who can chime in?
EDIT Grammer

I'll be watching this closely.

I really liked the idea of caramelizing it and then putting it into the mash--I think you'd really get some good flavor to come out of it that way.

Supposedly that is the way to get a good flavor out of honey as well--do a quick caramelization and add it to the beer.

I've got to get my but in gear and do this pumpkin brew. I've got the bug again--now if the weather would cooperate.

So... a pumpkin wheat would quite possibly be an insane thing to mash?

I want to do a pumpkin beer for the fall/winter season. Can't find rice hulls around here. I wonder if that would help? Though with the gelatonous scum forming on the top I doubt it. I wonder if a gum rest (95-113F) would help at say, 30 minutes?

Dude said:

I'll be watching this closely.

I really liked the idea of caramelizing it and then putting it into the mash--I think you'd really get some good flavor to come out of it that way.

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I'm with you (figuratively speaking). I don't really like the idea of just boiling it because there is some starch in pumpkin...I'd rather convert it than just introduce it to the wort. Not that pumpkin ales are necessarily crystal clear but starch also makes the beer slightly less stable biologically speaking.

Incidentally, we're supposed to get some cool weather by Saturday...only 90F here.

It has been over 10 years since I brewed a pumpkin brew. It turned out pretty thick and heavy on the spices. The pumpkin was canned and added to the mash. I am planning on doing one as my next batch but toning things down. I have a lager yeast cake ready so looks like it will be a lager. My base is going to be something like this:
5.5 Gallons
72%(5.76lbs) Pils
10%(.8lbs) Dark Munich
8%(.64lbs) Canned Pumpkin
10%(.8lbs) Brown Sugar
Some brewers coloring to achieve a deep orange/reddish color.
.3oz Nugget for bittering

Target Gravity 1.048, IBU's 18

Still deciding on the spices, trying to come up with something on the conservative side. Overall I want something with a medium light body, deep orange color and finish with a touch of spice, a crowd pleaser if you will.

We've gone from 105 to 75 in 2 days. WTF??

Has anyone used canned pumpkin? There's a brand my Ma uses for pumpkin pie that has np preservitives or additives but it's hard to find. Thought of mixing that into the mash.

I think the canned pumpkin is what most people use just as a matter of convenience.

Why didn't you guys chime in before I made mine?
Actually, maybe we can compare and decide once and for all which is better.

I noticed that the brewers in BYO recommend very small amounts of pumpkin (1/3 to 1/2 pound). I wouldn't think that would be enough. I'm sure they limit it because of the difficulty sparging.

well I did one in the mash and one in the boil. I just had one this evening, and damn, for being a green beer, it sure was tasty. If I could do it over again, I would caramelize them both and add LESS NUTMEG.

But seriously, I didnt have much pumpkin in the primary at all. I used a strainer when racking from the kettle and got most of it out that way. The pumpkin flavor is definitely there, but it could be a bit stronger. And I think caramelizing it would of given it the extra bit I want

And I am definitely proud of the color. Ill take a picture of hte next one I open.

Would there be as much of a problem batch sparging with pumpkin? Wouldn't you just be able to stir it up, recirculate and keep going until it is drained?

jerly said:

Would there be as much of a problem batch sparging with pumpkin? Wouldn't you just be able to stir it up, recirculate and keep going until it is drained?

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I had zero problems with batch sparging and pumpkin.

i'm looking at your recipe, chimone, and it doesn't say how big the cans were. how much pumpkin are we talking (in pounds) here?

how much would you cut the nutmeg down: one tablespoon? or down to more like one teaspoon?

is any of the biscuit malt coming through? I was thinking of using two to three times what you used.

with the pumpkin and the carapils, how's the mouthfeel? pretty thick? too thick?

sorry for all the questions, but you see a lot of recipes posted and then never hear how they turned out, and what the brewer would do differently =) so what would you change? thanks!

Mash it. but roast it first.

Cut open the pumpkin and clean it. Slice it and lay out on a cookie sheet. Sprinle with spices if you'd like (cinnamon, nutmeg, pumpkin pie spice etc.) and bake it at 350 until it starts to brown. Let it cool, clean it from the skin, rough mash it (with a potato masher) and then add it to your grain for more mashing (the enzyme kind).

hunteraw said:

i'

how much would you cut the nutmeg down: one tablespoon? or down to more like one teaspoon?

is any of the biscuit malt coming through? I was thinking of using two to three times what you used.

with the pumpkin and the carapils, how's the mouthfeel? pretty thick? too thick?

sorry for all the questions, but you see a lot of recipes posted and then never hear how they turned out, and what the brewer would do differently =) so what would you change? thanks!

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i would cut the nutmeg in half for sure, but who knows....i say that now but it will mellow in a month or so.

biscuit could of been increased. maybe doubled.

so far i cant give you a answer to the mouthfeel question. im sure once its fully carbonated ill be back here to write a follow up. same with everyone else im sure. i dont think anyone's is completely done yet

oh, and they were the large cans of 100% pumpkin in the grocery store. Libby's i think

So does all of this require a fairly complicating mash/sparge procedure, or can I just put it in the cold water in the pot (I only usually boil 2-3 gallons, and add the rest to cool the wort) and bring it up to whatever temp, like I do with the grain bags? (I do mostly extract brewing, with some specialty grains).

Chimone said:

so far i cant give you a answer to the mouthfeel question. im sure once its fully carbonated ill be back here to write a follow up. same with everyone else im sure. i dont think anyone's is completely done yet

oh, and they were the large cans of 100% pumpkin in the grocery store. Libby's i think

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Mine is still in the primary at about 5 bubbles a minute after 10 days. It's OG was 1.067 so I figured it would take awhile in the primary. It is going to take awhile before I will know how it is.

I also used 2 large cans of Libby's.

I actually hallowed out a jack-o-lantern (roughly 5 gal) and just fermented inside of the pumpkin for one week...

Do you think fermenting in the pumpkin added some flavor? I usually double the pumpkin and do half in mash and the other in the boil. Also save 1 tbs (I use about three or so)pumpkin in grain bag 15 min. into boil before end. Pumpkin is slightly present in the beer when conditioned at least 3 months.

Klainmeister said:

I actually hallowed out a jack-o-lantern (roughly 5 gal) and just fermented inside of the pumpkin for one week...

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Are you serious?

That's friggin' hardcore, dude.

opened another one lasgt night. WOW the flavors are mellowing great. still too much nutmeg though. other than that, Im really pleased. crystal clear, with a nice pumpkin orange hue

Chimone said:

opened another one lasgt night. WOW the flavors are mellowing great. still too much nutmeg though. other than that, Im really pleased. crystal clear, with a nice pumpkin orange hue

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Mine is ready to go to secondary I might rack it tonight.

No I wasn't serious. Substitute the word serious for drunk and you have the right idea. To my knowledge, the pumpkin would rot and you'd get a really bad taste plus good luck sanitizing a pumpkin!

Sorry, don't mean to hijack.. kind of related.

I want to brew my pumpkin ale soon. Charlie Papazian also recommends mashing the pumpkin. Thing is, I'm an extract brewer. That being said, I will be steeping some specialty grains prior to the boil.

My question is, how can I mash the pumpkin? When should I add it? Is there any artificial method of getting active enzymes? (ie/ adding enzymes to the pre-boil)

Orpheus said:

Sorry, don't mean to hijack.. kind of related.

I want to brew my pumpkin ale soon. Charlie Papazian also recommends mashing the pumpkin. Thing is, I'm an extract brewer. That being said, I will be steeping some specialty grains prior to the boil.

My question is, how can I mash the pumpkin? When should I add it? Is there any artificial method of getting active enzymes? (ie/ adding enzymes to the pre-boil)

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I would also like some info on this. I am not ready to go to all grain yet, so I would have to use an extract, hence no mashing.

Also, I understand that the fermenting in the pumpkin was a joke, but I think it would be possible. Quite possibly, the hardest part would be finding one to hold 5 gallons (myself, SWMBO knows a past world record holder for largest pumpkins, so no prob there). I guess it might be worth it to forgo a 5 gallon batch and do a smaller one, in case it goes bad. Sanitization shouldn't be too terrible. I can't imagine that there would be tons of wee-beaties inside of a pumpkin. I would just give it a quick rinse with sanitizer (quick though, so as to avoid having it soak in). If left in for only 2 weeks, then the pumpkin would still be fine, it normally takes longer than that for them to go bad. Having the inside filled with something (and not exposed to the air) would also extend the life. I also think it would be better used as a secondary than a primary.

Do I think this would add any flavor? No.
Do I think that it would be fricking awesome? Yes.
Will I try it? Very possibly.

Has anyone tried using pumpkin in both the mash AND the boil? I'm finding so much debate on mash vs boil, but haven't read of anyone trying both for a single batch. Does anyone know of any reason this wouldn't work? I'm planning on doing a 3 gal batch and have 2 27oz cans of pumpkin. Both cans seems like a lot to throw in the mash but I was thinking 1 in the tun and 1 in the kettle might be a good way to go.

Brewsmith said:

Mash it. but roast it first.

Cut open the pumpkin and clean it. Slice it and lay out on a cookie sheet. Sprinle with spices if you'd like (cinnamon, nutmeg, pumpkin pie spice etc.) and bake it at 350 until it starts to brown. Let it cool, clean it from the skin, rough mash it (with a potato masher) and then add it to your grain for more mashing (the enzyme kind).

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Did you use 1 pumpkin for a 5 gallon batch?

I actually use fresh roasted pumpkin in mine. I add it to the strike water and get it heated up. then it gets mashed. works great for me!

Dbrewerman said:

Has anyone tried using pumpkin in both the mash AND the boil? I'm finding so much debate on mash vs boil, but haven't read of anyone trying both for a single batch. Does anyone know of any reason this wouldn't work? I'm planning on doing a 3 gal batch and have 2 27oz cans of pumpkin. Both cans seems like a lot to throw in the mash but I was thinking 1 in the tun and 1 in the kettle might be a good way to go.

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This is what I was thinking. Also, and I am probably wrong on this since I am not the biggest fan of pumpkin beers, isn't the spice profile more or less what we taste in a pumpkin beer?

Calichusetts said:

This is what I was thinking. Also, and I am probably wrong on this since I am not the biggest fan of pumpkin beers, isn't the spice profile more or less what we taste in a pumpkin beer?

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I think that is the real debate, is it even worth putting in the pumpkin at all? I have done two pumpkin batches and had several commercial examples but still am not sure if the pumpkin actually adds anything. If it does, it is very minor, it really is the spice flavor you are after. Having said that I still put the roasted pumpkin into the mash.

I think it you truly want the flavour from the pumpkin to be imparted you need to make a fairly simple beer with little flavour from other ingredients as the flavour from pumpkin is fairly subtle.