Adding creaminess to a stout

I'm busy formulating an american stout recipe that I want to make with lots of body (really chewy), creaminess and a good thick head. I'm undecided on whether I should go with flaked oats or flaked barley, or perhaps both. I understand that they do pretty much the same thing, so would going with both be overkill? At present I have both in my recipe at ~4% contribution each.

Also, I know that wheat malt can also do a similar function, so should I think about adding wheat to my stout, or just stick to the flaked barley and oats?

Appreciate your suggestions!

I'd just go with the oats at around 8% of your grist. I don't know at what point it goes from an american Stout to an oatmeal stout, but if it tastes good, who cares!

I use Wheat malt in my Brown Ales and love the nice, thick foamy head it gives my beer.

In Brewing Classic Styles, Jamil uses 25% flaked barley for mouthfeel.

The high amounts of flaked oats/barley already suggested would work. I think you would also want to mash at a pretty high temp as well to give it a good full body. Probably around 158 or even 160 F. I'm going to be using some flaked barley in my next brew (coffee porter) so I'm interested to hear what you go with, and the results you get.

If you are going for chewieness, I would stay away from the Wheat malt, it does aid in head retention, but wheat malt also decreases perceivable body.

If you really want an american stout, just mash at 158 F and keep the flaked barley/oats down below 15% (I would just use the flk. barley)

If you want an Oatmeal stout, add the oatmeal up to 25% and some crystal malt to make it sweet. Leave the flk. barley to a <5% to none.

If you want a Milk stout add the milk sugar (lactose), which is unfermentable and adds only body/mouthfeel/chewieness. I think a milk stout is what you are really looking for.

Regardless, I got thirsty writing this.....

One other thing - if you keep the carbonation levels low (~1.8-2 volumes), you will add to the sensation of having a silky mouthfeel.

good point in the post above this one, nearly always overlooked.

kuphish said:

One other thing - if you keep the carbonation levels low (~1.8-2 volumes), you will add to the sensation of having a silky mouthfeel.

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Agreed.

funkswing said:

If you are going for chewieness, I would stay away from the Wheat malt, it does aid in head retention, but wheat malt also decreases perceivable body.

If you really want an american stout, just mash at 158 F and keep the flaked barley/oats down below 15% (I would just use the flk. barley)

If you want an Oatmeal stout, add the oatmeal up to 25% and some crystal malt to make it sweet. Leave the flk. barley to a <5% to none.

If you want a Milk stout add the milk sugar (lactose), which is unfermentable and adds only body/mouthfeel/chewieness. I think a milk stout is what you are really looking for.

Regardless, I got thirsty writing this.....

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Not really wanting a milk stout, I already have one on tap and want something more "roasty" than sweet, but with a nice smooth silkiness to it. The current recipe I have straddles the guidelines for the American stout and a Foreign Extra Stout.

Was planning on mashing high, maybe 156-158. Thinking maybe I'll drop the oats and going all in with the flaked barley.

Naked - I just realized it was you who posted this. Did you go to that homebrew club meeting last week?

I think the diff. between flaked barley and flaked oats is the flaked barley gives creaminess and the flaked oats gives chewieness - this is from the book Brewmasters Bible. I have never used the flaked barley. But I have used oats and I like how they work in Stouts and Witbiers

All the suggestions are good, and IMO flaked oats and barley are practically identical. Technically, flaked barley has more beta-glucans than oats so in theory it should add more mouthfeel per pound, but I'd be impressed if anyone could taste a beer and tell which one was used.

HOWEVER, I have switched to using oats in my beers for one important reason. My LHBS just doesn't seem to sell enough flaked barley and I think it smells oxidized or possibly rancid. Pretty cardboardy and grossly toasted. Oats from the grocery store (especially the bulk bins at higher-end grocery stores) have a lot of turnover and always taste pretty fresh to me.

If lower quality barley isn't a problem, then I guess the choice is up to you.

I think the oats (especially when used 15-25%) kinda kill the head retention. Which for a stout and witbier isn't a problem at all really. I do a 45 min. Protein rest when I use the oats. Just letting my experience out here.

I do always use the Quick Oats (not instant, not regular). If you buy the store brand stuff you can get it cheap! ($1/18oz <--that's what I'm talking about; I got 3 for the price of one Quaker brand)

Has anyone ever toasted the oats? What effect does it have on the beer? Is it nutty like home toasted malt?

funkswing said:

I think the oats (especially when used 15-25%) kinda kill the head retention. Which for a stout and witbier isn't a problem at all really. I do a 45 min. Protein rest when I use the oats. Just letting my experience out here.

I do always use the Quick Oats (not instant, not regular). If you buy the store brand stuff you can get it cheap! ($1/18oz <--that's what I'm talking about; I got 3 for the price of one Quaker brand)

Has anyone ever toasted the oats? What effect does it have on the beer? Is it nutty like home toasted malt?

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Using standard Quaker breakfast oats from Kroger/Publix?

Do you know if Blockader has any flaked oats/barley on hand?

Funkswing...I was always under the impression that protein rests were used to kill a particularly haze-forming proteins. As a side effect of that, they also kill head retention....so probably wouldn't use it for a beer I want a thick head on. Why do you use it with the oats?

PS...work caught up with me, so unfortunately had to miss the ALEZ club meeting!

Naked - Oats are high in proteins, so the protein rest (~122 F) helps the enzymes break down the long-chained proteins, so they can be further broken down by the alpha and beta enzymes during the sach. rest. (145-158 F)

Blockader has flk. oats and barley (and maize), but I would just buy the oats at the grocery store if you see them on sale (like the Kroger brand). If they aren't on sale, then the price is basically the same.

Yeah, I don't think there are very many Oatmeal IPAs out there......yet.

Guinness clone tailored to your needs ? The consensus seems to be 65% pale malt, 25% flaked barley and 10% roasted barley, mash for light/medium body.

Rye adds body and under 10% not a noticeable flavor. I used some flaked rye from the heath food store in a few beer and it added a lot of body and a creamy head. I get very low extract from it and it didn't clear very fast. Most of the extract from it is proteins. I haven't used it in a stout yet but will someday (with some toasted purled barley also from the heath food store.)