Well...time to get back on the horse

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Makita

Active Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
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Location
Madison, WI
First off...Hi! I wish I had thought of looking for this kind of forum earlier. This is just what I need.

I haven't brewed anything in almost 2 years. It's sort of like those romantic comedies where the protagonists want to fall in love but they refuse to because they have been hurt too many times. I need help.

I've only made about 6 or 7 beers in my life (ales, mostly Papazian recipes), but haven't had a lot of success. One was great, one was not consumable, and the others were "drinkable" but not worth the effort to get them down.

Let's skip the two outliers and talk about the recurring problem with the others:
They all seem to be overly carbonated and have an astringent taste to them.

The carbonation is not "foamy" like beer, but more "fizzy" like cola. I have decided that, carbonation-wise, the beer is much better if it has been allowed to sit open for a few hours and I mix it around alot to release the fizz. Also, my beers tend to have very little head, and what is there goes away quickly - again, somewhat like cola.

Then there is that funny taste. I can only describe it as astringent. Very bitter, but not a good bitter. It's a bitter that you can smell and can taste at the front of the tongue. Drinkable, but not worth giving to somebody else. Even the one great beer I made had a tiny hint of this, but it was probably only noticable to me.

For now, I will intentionally leave out the details of how I made these beers because I want to see if anyone recognizes these specific characteristics rather than reacts to my procedures (which are normal as far as I can tell).

Please help. I can't go any longer without making a good beer.
 
Sounds like an infection issue to me, for the most part. Overcarbonation, or "funny" carbonation will happen if you use too much priming sugar, if you bottle before fermentation is finished, or if your beer is contaminated with foreign nasties.

Given that you have a yucky taste in your beer, I'm guessing foreign nasties. So.... quick sanitation lesson? What are you using for sanitizer? That's maybe the most important thing to sort out. Then we can give you a method for whatever you are using. I'm a chlorine and TSP man, but many here are iodophor users.

You can make perfectly decent beer out of totally mediocre ingredients if you are super super picky on sanitation.

I'm a fan of buying the "wort in a bag" kind of kits.... Baron's, Brewhouse, or Festa, to determine if one's methodology is good enough. If you get bad beer out of those kits... it's your fault, plain and simple. :)
 
Sounds just like my first batch of beer. Wish I could offer more than commiseration but seeing as I just tasted my first batch yesterday, I don't have any more ideas than you. I'm going to watch this thread for ideas. Did you notice a lack of flavor too? I'll grant that mine was a kit and I have no idea what it was supposed to taste like, but I can't imagine it was supposed to taste like that.
 
What kind of kit, St. L? It SHOULD have been the best beer you ever tasted.
 
Not sure other than to say it was $30 and a brown box the size of a big briefcase and the only thing that seemed to be it's name is "Brew your own beer" Featured a "cubitainer" and a caning tip if that helps.
 
What did you brew in? Was it a carboy, bucket, or some other setup sold to you with the kit? If it was like a Mr.Beer setup, I'd be leery of that, because those can easily cause sanitation issues. However, if not, then it could be your sanitation method. Again, it would be helpful to know more about your sanitation method.
 
Sorry, didn't mean to not give enough info. Little shy about hijacking someone else's thread. The container that came with the kit is a semi-firm cube shaped plastic container called a cubitainer. The kit also came with a powder for sanitizing. Not sure what's in it. I just did with it what the directions told me to do. I don't know what doing it right is like, so I couldn't guess where I came up short. Sanitizing sounds like the common cause in a lot of threads I've perused on this forum, but I did sanitize. I just don't know if there is a right way and a wrong way. If there is I wouldn't know if I did it right or wrong. If, by your observation, brewing kits tend to make very good beer if done right, I would tend to volunteer that I did something wrong. I just don't know what that might be. :confused:
 
Your cubitainer might be the cause. Did it come with an airlock?

Other than that, the sanitizer that came with it sounds like it was bleach based, which can cause similar problems if it isn't rinsed. What happens is the chlorine kind of kills the yeast, causing it to not ferment all the way out, and it will still be somewhat active, but mostly injured, causing it to have a soda like fizz to it, and taste kind of nasty. But if you rinsed it properly that wouldn't be so much of an issue.

I would recomend buying a carboy (25-40$), and getting some iodophor, both of which you should be able to get at a homebrewshop. You should also be able to find liquid yeast, which will be more active and more tolerant of conditions than dry yeast.
 
Thanks for the tip(s). Yes to answer the question, the cubitainer did come with an air lock. But, like it or not, it sounds like I'm going to have to invest in some real equipment. I caught the bug to do this some more, but I'm worried about the results not being up to my hopes. Don't know if it's shooting too high, but if I can't brew something as flavorful as Sam Adams or Sierra Nevada Pale Ale I'm better off buying it.
 
You'll be happy buying the equipment, and if you treat it right, it'll last a long time, which means in the longrun you'll be saving a lot of money by drinking homebrews instead of buying Sierra Nevada...even though that is a very good beer. But you can make five gallons of possibly better beer for less than fifty bucks, which is quite a bargain. But the most important thing is is the satisfaction in knowing that you made it.

Relax, have a homebrew... or in your case, maybe a decent store-bought, and that bug of yours will have you making the beer you love in no time at all.
 
Makita said:
First off...Hi! I wish I had thought of looking for this kind of forum earlier. This is just what I need.

I haven't brewed anything in almost 2 years. It's sort of like those romantic comedies where the protagonists want to fall in love but they refuse to because they have been hurt too many times. I need help.

I've only made about 6 or 7 beers in my life (ales, mostly Papazian recipes), but haven't had a lot of success. One was great, one was not consumable, and the others were "drinkable" but not worth the effort to get them down.

Let's skip the two outliers and talk about the recurring problem with the others:
They all seem to be overly carbonated and have an astringent taste to them.

The carbonation is not "foamy" like beer, but more "fizzy" like cola. I have decided that, carbonation-wise, the beer is much better if it has been allowed to sit open for a few hours and I mix it around alot to release the fizz. Also, my beers tend to have very little head, and what is there goes away quickly - again, somewhat like cola.

Then there is that funny taste. I can only describe it as astringent. Very bitter, but not a good bitter. It's a bitter that you can smell and can taste at the front of the tongue. Drinkable, but not worth giving to somebody else. Even the one great beer I made had a tiny hint of this, but it was probably only noticable to me.

For now, I will intentionally leave out the details of how I made these beers because I want to see if anyone recognizes these specific characteristics rather than reacts to my procedures (which are normal as far as I can tell).

Please help. I can't go any longer without making a good beer.

Welcome to the forums! Hopefully we can figure it out and get you brewing again.....

The only questions I can come up with at the moment are: At what temp were you steeping your grains, and for how long?

What type of yeast were you using, and what were your ferment procedures/temps?
 
Referring back to the OP, here's my theories on the matter ;)

Without knowing your actual procedure, I'd be willing to guess that at least part of the problem may have been from not giving the beer enough time. That is, it sounds as though you may have been bottling too soon, which can lead to overcarbination as well as possibly getting a fair amount of yeast, which can throw the taste off. Young beer also has a tendency to taste a little rough around the edges.

If you were steeping grains at too high a temperature for too long, it's also possible that you extracted tannins, which will cause astringency. The effect is often described as what would happen if you sucked on a tea bag.

Good head retention is a little harder, but it can be improved with better ingredients, or the addition of ingredients specifically for that purpose.
 
They all seem to be overly carbonated and have an astringent taste to them.

Bacteria infections. There are a lot of different types of bateria that can cause problems, but over-carbonation, astringent taste and lack of head are common to bacteria that eat the normally non-fermentable sugars. You might also notice a vinegar smell.

I started with a BrewSack and it was VILE! I purchased a basic brewing kit, some extract and hops, sanitized everything and made a good batch. In six years, I've had four off-batches. Each time, I went back to the basics and cleaned & sanitized everything. This includes cleaning the brewing area with something like TSP.
 
Boiling in an enamel pot with a chip in it can kill several batches of beer. The rust puts tooo much iron into the beer. So, I'd guess cooking it in a pot with rust stains, or an iron pot is no wueno... Aluminum or Stainless both work... rusty hose barbs also not good.
 
Sasquatch said:
Sounds like an infection issue to me, for the most part.

Okay...I thought I was even overdoing the cleaning. It's possible that I was doing something wrong and didn't realize it.

I am brewing with:
Brewer's Best equipment kit - Plastic carboy for primary, glass carboy for secondary.
Ingredients - Munton's DME, Wyeast, and pellet hops, all from the local brew store.

For priming, I always add light DME. 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 cup depending on the recipe.

As for cleaning, I have used bleach or One-step, and have always assumed that rinsing with tap water was okay (bad assumtion??). For my first batch ever, I soaked the equipment and new bottles in the One-step that came with the kit. In the end, the beer didn't taste right, so the next batch I used bleach instead and the beer tasted wonderful.

However, in every subsequent batch, I used bleach and the beer was always bad. Maybe it's the way I'm using the bleach. I don't really do separate cleaning and sanitizing steps. When I'm done making a batch, I scrub out the carboys with water and a scrub brush and put them away. As for the bottles, I rinse them out after drinking and put them away.

When it's time to make a new batch, I go straight to sanitizing by soaking everything in the bath tub in bleach for about 30 min. - 1 hr. I don't really measure the bleach. I just pour it in until I can smell it in the water. Afterwards I rinse well with tap water.

I sanitize the bottles either with bleach or One-step (can't remember when I did which) and rinse with hot tap water using a Jet faucet attachment.


Sam75 said:
At what temp were you steeping your grains, and for how long?

Hmm...I don't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure I let the grains steep (in the muslin bag) for 15 min. I can't remember if it was a near boil or already boiling.
 
Makita said:
[q]At what temp were you steeping your grains, and for how long?[/q]

Hmm...I don't remember exactly. I'm pretty sure I let the grains steep (in the muslin bag) for 15 min. I can't remember if it was a near boil or already boiling.

That might be the problem with the anstrigency. The grains should not be steeped at temps over 180 degrees. Near boiling or boiling temps would extract tannins from the grain husks and give you a nasty flavor that makes your tounge 'dry up'.

Makita said:
EDIT: Oops! How do I quote here?

use [ quote=<name of quotee> ] instead of just [ q ].

-walker
 
Walker said:
That might be the problem with the anstrigency. The grains should not be steeped at temps over 180 degrees. Near boiling or boiling temps would extract tannins from the grain husks and give you a nasty flavor that makes your tounge 'dry up'.

I just found the recipe that I used for the last beer I made. The recipe was from my father-in-law, and it does say to boil the grains for 15 minutes. So, that may have been the problem.

But what about the fizziness? I wouldn't think that would be related to boiling the grains so I must have two distinct problems. I like my beer smooth and foamy, not sharp and fizzy. Yuck.
 
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