bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Has anything happened with this?
100% homegrown
- Thread starter drummstikk
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Ah, I've been so busy! Still some unthreshed grain at the field, and lots of Almanac beer in my bedroom to bottle up. Homegrown hops in the freezer...
Anybody else growing grains this winter??
Anybody else growing grains this winter??
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I know man I know.. It's hard to find time for the more important things in life. Did your hops ever pan out?
Maris Otter and Halcyon samples this winter, with Bere, Hana, and Conlon waiting for spring. I've got some Cascade hops in a planter from my old place, and I'll be getting them in the ground in the spring, along with (hopefully) one or two other varieties.
So much fun, checking on the barley every couple of days... :cross:
--Misha
aubiecat
Well-Known Member
This thread should be a sticky.
So, after surviving the winter, my Maris Otter and Halcyon mini-plots have put the spurs to it, and are growing quite nicely. I've got mini-plots of Bere and Hana sown, and they've germinated and sprouted (although I think birds may have gotten to the seed; I saw lots of empty barley husks, and there aren't as many shoots as I would have liked, particularly of the Hana).
As a backup, I held back a few (10 or so) seeds from each variety, and they're doing just fine in small planters, where I can keep them safe from predation...
I hope to get the Conlon sown this week. I've also got my hop rhizomes waiting for me to finish the pergola for them to climb: two each of Cascade, Magnum, Sterling, and Willamette. (My two 4-year-old Cascade rhizomes, now "retired", have been transplanted to an area where they can climb an old pear tree...)
If only the homestead wasn't a 130-year-old work-in-progress; then I could maybe focus on the important things, like brewing...
As a backup, I held back a few (10 or so) seeds from each variety, and they're doing just fine in small planters, where I can keep them safe from predation...
I hope to get the Conlon sown this week. I've also got my hop rhizomes waiting for me to finish the pergola for them to climb: two each of Cascade, Magnum, Sterling, and Willamette. (My two 4-year-old Cascade rhizomes, now "retired", have been transplanted to an area where they can climb an old pear tree...)
If only the homestead wasn't a 130-year-old work-in-progress; then I could maybe focus on the important things, like brewing...
I pulled this off a website that discusses polyculture systems...
Agricultural Legume Inter-planting
Sir Albert Howard also experimented with growing a food producing legume, chickpeas, with wheat. He had observed that the Indian growers often grew grains inter-planted with a legume, so he grew three rows of wheat and then a row of chickpeas, in an experiment. The growth of the outer two lines of wheat was so superior to the middle that he weighed the grains at harvest, and found that the lines adjacent to the chickpeas yielded 34% more than the inner line. (A History of Agriculture in India Vol III, Randhawa). This is corroborated by FH King, in ‘Farmers of Forty Centuries’ who observed Chinese growers growing grains and beans, two rows of grain, then a row of beans, etc. The Chinese farmer had clearly worked out the optimum configuration for themselves, without the help of scientists.
Taking Howard’s figures of 34% increase in yield, if you are replacing every third row of grain with a legume, you are losing 33% of your grain yield, from the loss of that row, but gaining a 34% increase in each of the remaining two rows. My mathematics isn't amazing, but I understand that to mean that the extra yield from the remaining two rows will provide about 2/3 of the yield lost from the missing row, and there will be a yield of bean/legume, that wasn't there before.
Agricultural Legume Inter-planting
Sir Albert Howard also experimented with growing a food producing legume, chickpeas, with wheat. He had observed that the Indian growers often grew grains inter-planted with a legume, so he grew three rows of wheat and then a row of chickpeas, in an experiment. The growth of the outer two lines of wheat was so superior to the middle that he weighed the grains at harvest, and found that the lines adjacent to the chickpeas yielded 34% more than the inner line. (A History of Agriculture in India Vol III, Randhawa). This is corroborated by FH King, in ‘Farmers of Forty Centuries’ who observed Chinese growers growing grains and beans, two rows of grain, then a row of beans, etc. The Chinese farmer had clearly worked out the optimum configuration for themselves, without the help of scientists.
Taking Howard’s figures of 34% increase in yield, if you are replacing every third row of grain with a legume, you are losing 33% of your grain yield, from the loss of that row, but gaining a 34% increase in each of the remaining two rows. My mathematics isn't amazing, but I understand that to mean that the extra yield from the remaining two rows will provide about 2/3 of the yield lost from the missing row, and there will be a yield of bean/legume, that wasn't there before.
Hairy Vetch, clover, or non climbing peas would also work well although I like the thought of having a food crop growing amongst the barley if possible.
The mix of plant types also cuts down the incident of diseases and pests.
I would also be inclined to plant comfrey, dandilion, garlic, marigold, calendula, mustard, and borage.
These plants do specific things like de-compact the soil, bring vital nutrients to the surface, attract beneficial predatory insects, repel parasitic insects, and provide yet another edible or medicinal crop within the same space without competing with the barley.
The mix of plant types also cuts down the incident of diseases and pests.
I would also be inclined to plant comfrey, dandilion, garlic, marigold, calendula, mustard, and borage.
These plants do specific things like de-compact the soil, bring vital nutrients to the surface, attract beneficial predatory insects, repel parasitic insects, and provide yet another edible or medicinal crop within the same space without competing with the barley.
Well I just secured an area to plant my grains this season. I got some small samples from the seed bank and will be growing them up this year in a polyculture environment like I described above, but quite a bit more complex than that
bierandbikes
Well-Known Member
I just posted a request for info before I found this. I need some time to read through but hoping for updates on harvesting and processing.
Wow! What a difference between Canada and the middle Eastern Seaboard: my Hana is almost done putting out its seed-heads. I was able to sow it two months ago, on March 24th; it might have germinated a little better had I put if off a week or two--or maybe not, I really don't know.
My Maris Otter and Halcyon are fully headed out, and they're a somewhat lighter shade of green than they had been. I'm tentatively looking at mid- to late-June to harvest them. The Bere is showing signs of developing seed-heads (the upper parts of the tillers are swelling); I thought I saw the tips of some awns on Tuesday...
Cheers!
--Misha
I saw this video on line.
Roughly 10 mins in, Joseph shows his Russian Rye crop and talks about growing techniques.
Notice how the rye is there for 2 years. The first year they mow it and the second year they harvest. It cuts down on weeds and increases productivity.
Note too that this farm does not use any pesticides, herbicide or synthetic fertiliser.
I wonder if this would work with barley...
Roughly 10 mins in, Joseph shows his Russian Rye crop and talks about growing techniques.
Notice how the rye is there for 2 years. The first year they mow it and the second year they harvest. It cuts down on weeds and increases productivity.
Note too that this farm does not use any pesticides, herbicide or synthetic fertiliser.
I wonder if this would work with barley...
Last edited by a moderator:
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Seems like a little slice of heaven there!
So the technique in questions seems to be: plant very late, in mid-summer, allow that summer's growth to be mowed, by animal or by machine, then the grains have a head-start into the next growing season.
I guess it's not all that different from growing a winter crop, except that you plant even earlier and sacrifice some of that growth.
I think the technique would work with any winter barley. The principle is that a grass's meristem is hidden below ground before jointing occurs. (Jointing is after tillering but before head emergence.)
Even if leaves (and perhaps even some joints) are removed, yet at least some meristem remains below ground, the plant should survive. This is the same reason you're able to mow the lawn without killing the grass.
Cool!
I can see that being a possibility--my winter varieties were "mowed" by deer, back in the fall; it didn't seem to hurt them at all...
In other news, I've harvested my grains. Starting with 5g each of Maris Otter, Halcyon, Bere, and a mystery barley*, I ended up with about 250g each of Maris Otter and Halcyon, 25g of Bere and the other. Just waiting for Autumn to roll around, so I can re-seed the M.O. and Halcyon...
*They were supposed to send me Hana, a 2-row spring variety. What grew was a 6-row "hooded" barley ("hoods" instead of awns); these tend to be feed-quality barleys. I emailed the NPGS about it, they were apologetic, and are looking into it. In the meantime, I've ordered (and received) a different Hana variety ("Hana II"); again, a spring variety, so I won't know what's going on with it until next year.
Cheers!
--Misha
In other news, I've harvested my grains. Starting with 5g each of Maris Otter, Halcyon, Bere, and a mystery barley*, I ended up with about 250g each of Maris Otter and Halcyon, 25g of Bere and the other. Just waiting for Autumn to roll around, so I can re-seed the M.O. and Halcyon...
*They were supposed to send me Hana, a 2-row spring variety. What grew was a 6-row "hooded" barley ("hoods" instead of awns); these tend to be feed-quality barleys. I emailed the NPGS about it, they were apologetic, and are looking into it. In the meantime, I've ordered (and received) a different Hana variety ("Hana II"); again, a spring variety, so I won't know what's going on with it until next year.
Cheers!
--Misha
Arghhh, how annoying is that!
I have 2 varieties of barley, but by far my main interest lies in the Hana due to it's heritage.
At the moment, there is no sign yet of seed heads. I expect them in about 2 more weeks, and both varieties seem happy.
My Einkorn is not doing so well though. It got off to a great start but I think the soil is too wet where it's growing. Hopefully I'll recover some to plant next season. Apparently Einkorn is such a pioneer plant that you have to plant in dry, crappy soil.
I have 2 varieties of barley, but by far my main interest lies in the Hana due to it's heritage.
At the moment, there is no sign yet of seed heads. I expect them in about 2 more weeks, and both varieties seem happy.
My Einkorn is not doing so well though. It got off to a great start but I think the soil is too wet where it's growing. Hopefully I'll recover some to plant next season. Apparently Einkorn is such a pioneer plant that you have to plant in dry, crappy soil.
I got quite a surprise when I went to check on the garden today. It's been about a week since I checked and my Pacific bluestem wheat has wheat!
I must say I'm a bit suspicious though. It's very short for a heritage wheat...
I must say I'm a bit suspicious though. It's very short for a heritage wheat...
That was something I also saw with my barley--even the M.O. only got up to about 2ft tall, maybe a little more. Lots of commercial wheat planted hereabouts, tho, and it appears to be largely the same-ish height as my stuff, so I'm not worried.
--Misha
--Misha
Well the modern strains are bred to grow short. Although I noticed with barley, even heritage ones are much shorter than wheat.
This is a heritage wheat variety. It should be much taller and one of the reasons why I chose it is for the quality of the straw. I very much suspect that the seed bank has a mis-classified strain here.
Back to the barley... My Hana is not doing fantastic. The leaves are a little yellow. Too wet? They're growing close to the Einkorn, which is also struggling.
This is a heritage wheat variety. It should be much taller and one of the reasons why I chose it is for the quality of the straw. I very much suspect that the seed bank has a mis-classified strain here.
Back to the barley... My Hana is not doing fantastic. The leaves are a little yellow. Too wet? They're growing close to the Einkorn, which is also struggling.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to say that drumstickk is a bad ass, and sent me beer from the batch that he grew and malted. It rocked! Great job man! Even my wife drank some out of respect for the work that sent into it, and liked it! The only flaw was that the head retention wasn't there
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of the height depends on nitrogen content in the soil and growing conditions rather than just genetics.
I would also echo others that height doesn't really matter. I think my crop was especially tall because I grew a spring variety of barley in the winter. It had an especially long (if not warm) growing season, and had plenty of time to devote to vegetal growth. I've seen plenty of commercial crops that are much shorter, just a few feet high.
Height can have an impact on final protein content in the grain: if you fertilized and you expected the plants to consume a certain amount of nitrogen during elongation, and then, they don't elongate very much -- well, there could be more nitrogen left in the soil than you expected during grain formation. This would lead to an increase in protein content in the grains, which a maltster might notice, but you or I probably wouldn't!
So, really, don't worry about the height. In fact, you don't want them to grow too high because they'll lodge, or tip over, which is not lethal, but a big pain in the butt.
Okay, this year's iteration is off and running! SWMBO "sacrificed" one of our garden beds to the barley (with the understanding that I'll be building an additional one to expand the garden), and I got the winter barley varieties planted (Maris Otter and Halcyon).
From the 5g packets I got from the USDA, my yield was ~240g of each variety; I planted ~200g each, saving some so that in case of disaster I can re-build. That policy has already come in handy, as one of my dogs dug up a part of the Halcyon bed before I could get the electric fence up... In retrospect, tho, that portion of bed probably has everything planted to the "proper" depth and such now, so it's not really a loss.
To add to that, we had a nice, gentle soaking rain overnight on Saturday; a quick inspection yesterday showed that all of the grains still visible at the surface were chitting. Certainly says good things about the viability of this stuff!
Now, to finish the trellising for next year's hops...
--Misha
From the 5g packets I got from the USDA, my yield was ~240g of each variety; I planted ~200g each, saving some so that in case of disaster I can re-build. That policy has already come in handy, as one of my dogs dug up a part of the Halcyon bed before I could get the electric fence up...
In retrospect, tho, that portion of bed probably has everything planted to the "proper" depth and such now, so it's not really a loss.To add to that, we had a nice, gentle soaking rain overnight on Saturday; a quick inspection yesterday showed that all of the grains still visible at the surface were chitting. Certainly says good things about the viability of this stuff!
Now, to finish the trellising for next year's hops...
--Misha
Wow, I just finished harvesting my Hana and Golden Promise over the weekend.
In hindsight, I planted in an area that was too damp. Next year will need to be different. My yields were much lower than yours. I'll have to weigh them tonight to see exactly what they were. Golden promise produced easily 3 times more than my Hana though.
It's a spring barley used traditionally in Scotland for making malt whiskey.
Edit:
so I got home and broke out the scales...
My Hana came in at 12g, so a little over twice what I started with.
The Golden promise came in at 28g, or 5 1/2 times.
Interestingly, they were growing about 10ft apart and separated by a patch of beans. Maybe the Golden Promise is more suited to damper conditions. Like Scotland
One thing I have noticed was that the seed I started with looked pretty old. Especially the Hana.
I also planted Einkorn and Pacific Bluestem wheat. The Einkorn looked particularly haggard when I got it (all 10 berries) and the germination rates were poor.
So although my yields were somewhat disappointing (apart from the GP), at least I now have fresh seed for next season!
In hindsight, I planted in an area that was too damp. Next year will need to be different. My yields were much lower than yours. I'll have to weigh them tonight to see exactly what they were. Golden promise produced easily 3 times more than my Hana though.
It's a spring barley used traditionally in Scotland for making malt whiskey.
Edit:
so I got home and broke out the scales...
My Hana came in at 12g, so a little over twice what I started with.
The Golden promise came in at 28g, or 5 1/2 times.
Interestingly, they were growing about 10ft apart and separated by a patch of beans. Maybe the Golden Promise is more suited to damper conditions. Like Scotland
One thing I have noticed was that the seed I started with looked pretty old. Especially the Hana.
I also planted Einkorn and Pacific Bluestem wheat. The Einkorn looked particularly haggard when I got it (all 10 berries) and the germination rates were poor.
So although my yields were somewhat disappointing (apart from the GP), at least I now have fresh seed for next season!
I stumbled across this:
http://sciencebusiness.technewslit.com/?p=13503
After a bit more googling, I came to the conclusion that I just have to get my hands on some Chevallier seed!
I planted the Golden Promise thinking that it was a pre industrial barley only to find out that isn't the case, and it was actually created by blasting seed with radiation. Not really the effect I'm after...
This looks like the real deal for making historically authentic IPA etc. I think I may have even found it in the Canadian seed bank.
http://sciencebusiness.technewslit.com/?p=13503
After a bit more googling, I came to the conclusion that I just have to get my hands on some Chevallier seed!
I planted the Golden Promise thinking that it was a pre industrial barley only to find out that isn't the case, and it was actually created by blasting seed with radiation. Not really the effect I'm after...
This looks like the real deal for making historically authentic IPA etc. I think I may have even found it in the Canadian seed bank.
Yeah, my Spring barley had much lower yields than my winter barley (about 25-50g for the spring, versus almost 250g for the winter). Probably related to the longer growth period/more established root system in the winter barley; it's got all winter to "settle in".
So, my winter barley was sown on Sunday; the first shoots are already nearly 2" long! I'm keeping an eye on the weather forecasts; hoping that our first frost comes late enough to let the plants get established, but not so late that they're too far along in the growth cycle... I suppose things will work out one way or the other, when all is said and done. Hopefully the yields are similar to last year!
--Misha
I just wanted to say that drumstickk is a bad ass, and sent me beer from the batch that he grew and malted. It rocked! Great job man! Even my wife drank some out of respect for the work that sent into it, and liked it! The only flaw was that the head retention wasn't there
Is... is that a thunderhead??
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Cool! I will have to get my hands on some Chevalier
Regarding the radiation, keep in mind that pre-industrial crops were produced in a very similar manner to modern radiation-produced crops. They are both made by creating variation with ionizing radiation, then selecting desirable traits from the produced variation.
In pre-industrial crops, the source of ionizing radiation is gamma rays from the sun -- in post-industrial crops, it is gamma or x-rays from a radioactive metal. You gotta remember that the radiation doesn't know what type of source it came from: a gamma ray is a gamma ray.
Pre-industrial humans selected grains for size, plumpness, disease resistance, pest resistance, and desirable growing and harvesting characteristics, just like modern breeders do. In fact, when you compare pre-industrial grains to un-domesticated grains like goatgrass, you see that pre-industrial breeders really made the hugest changes to the crops. Modern breeders have only eked out a little more yield.
Anyway, I love the historical crops too -- I'm hoping to plant my old bere barley seed crop this winter! (Fingers crossed). But don't eschew radiation-bred crops, because...well, all crops are radiation-bred. That's how evolution works.
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
To summarize the Conlon experiment I performed two years ago:
Lower field [79 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 12 seeds/inch, some fine threshing]
69 lbs
Middle field [80 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 24 seeds/inch, rough threshing]
64 lbs
Upper field [33 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 12 seeds/inch, rough threshing]
42 lbs
Total 175 lbs, or roughly 2330 lbs/acre. At 50 lbs/bushel, that's 46 bushels per acre -- not terrible, considering a pro in the midwest could get 75 bu/acre. For the highest yielding plot, the lower field, the yield is 2760 lb/acre, or 55 bu/acre, which is really not bad, about 73% of a commercial yield.
So what was wrong with the upper field? Ha, who knows! This experiment had no controls -- fertilization rate, seeding rate, the soil and shading all varied between the three plots.
But I have an answer for the most important question: can a spring barley adapted for growth in the Upper Midwest produce commercial yields in a California winter? Yes, almost.
I got around 73% of an average professional yield. The difference could reasonably have to do with how I managed the crop rather than the genetics of the strain. The plant survival rate was extremely high -- I can at least say that, and my inexperience in planting, fertilizing, and irrigating at proper rates could have easily shaved off a quarter of my yield. That is, there are plenty of factors that could account for the lower (but still not bad!) yield in addition to the strain's genetics.
At the very least, I can conclude that growing a midwest-adapted strain in the Bay Area is not a complete failure. It wasn't wiped out by disease, by pests, or by the switch from spring growing conditions to the Bay Area winter. I would be interested to see what type of yield a skilled farmer could get on a Bay Area farm.
I've been thinking about this recently because I have access to the same sections of the field again this winter! Woo hoooo!
The field is plowed and ready to plant.
I marked it off so it wouldn't get seeded with cover crop:
I will definitely do 7.5" rows this year. Thanks to wheatwarden for the suggestion to do so. But how dense to plant? If I were growing Conlon again, I would do about 12 seeds per foot, which in 7.5" rows works out to roughly 100 lb /acre.
But I grew up enough of the bere seed in 2011-2012 to plant a large area! That means I'll be 100% heirloom this time around. It will be really fantastic if I end up with enough bere to malt and make a few batches of beer. You can get bere beers from a few European breweries, but I've never had one. It will just be really fun to finally see the 5g of bere seeds I received from NPGS finally turn into beer!
A suggested seeding rate for Bere is 160 kg/ha, or 143 lb/acre. That's not too far away from the suggested rate of 130 lb/acre for Conlon, but it's significantly higher than I planted last year.
On top of that, bere is a much smaller seed than Conlon, so it will require more seeds planted per foot to achieve the same seeding rate on a mass basis. I just weighed 10 of my bere seeds, and they're about 29.4 mg each.
But what if my seeds are smaller than commercially produced bere seeds? What I really need is a suggested seeding rate in units of [seeds / area]. Luckily, that same paper suggests 530 seeds / m^2 for bere, which works out to 49 seeds / square foot, or 31 seeds per foot of 7.5" rows. This is a much higher planting rate of seeds / foot than I used two years ago, which was between 21 and 10 seeds per square foot.
With my measurement of 29.4 mg per bere seed, 31 seeds per foot in 7.5" rows works out to about 156 kg/ha. That's pretty close to the recommended 160 kg/ha, so I guess my seeds are a normal bere weight. That is reassuring, but it means I'll need 10.4 lbs to seed all three plots at this rate, and I only have about 8 lbs of bere seeds! I' think I'll stick to the recommended seeding rate, and start with the areas that yielded the most last time. Then just plant until I run out.
Two years ago, I found I had to push the EarthWay seeder pretty fast to get 12 seeds / ft, so I'll try different speeds with the bere seeds to get something like 15 seeds / ft, and then I can double up on each row to get 30 seeds / ft.
Why plant seeds so densely for bere? I am not really sure. In general, planting too densely can cause plants to compete with one another for light, growing ever higher and eventually lodging as they topple under their own weight. Planting too sparsely can lead to more tillering and uneven (and late) maturation. The later tillers simply get a later start, and therefore produce mature heads later. Each variety has its own sweet spot of planting rate and apparently bere's is just higher than Conlon's.
The Marin, Chang, and Wishart paper I linked to above suggests that bere doesn't increase its yield much in response to nitrogen addition. The anecdotes surrounding this variety are that it was
bred in nutrient-poor Scottish soils, and so doesn't require much nutrient addition.
Too much nitrogen can lead not only to poor malting characteristics, but also lodging, a condition I've experienced every time I've grown up bere so far! So, I think I won't add any nitrogen on top of the nitrogen already amended to the soil in the form of compost.
I also plan to do a few deep irrigations throughout the growing season to promote deep root growth -- this may do something to ward off lodging.
I'll check for aphids before elongation and decide whether to do a spray.
I could spray for weeds right now, because there sure are some already popping up:
Glyphosate is safe, and I could use it with no problems. But since this is a historical variety, I'm curious to see what will happen if I only use historical methods. Maybe if I simply cultivate the field by hand and skip the glyphosate, I'll still get a decent yield. This would mean if aphids show up, I'll have to find a 19th century insecticide to spray. If the case arises, I'm sure I can find some nicotine somewhere...
Besides, that, I plan to set it and forget it. I learned a lot last time about how to farm a small grain, and this time I'm going to take advantage of that experience to do less work!
Lower field [79 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 12 seeds/inch, some fine threshing]
69 lbs
Middle field [80 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 24 seeds/inch, rough threshing]
64 lbs
Upper field [33 lb/acre N, 2 lb /acre P, 2 lb/acre K, 14" rows of ~ 12 seeds/inch, rough threshing]
42 lbs
Total 175 lbs, or roughly 2330 lbs/acre. At 50 lbs/bushel, that's 46 bushels per acre -- not terrible, considering a pro in the midwest could get 75 bu/acre. For the highest yielding plot, the lower field, the yield is 2760 lb/acre, or 55 bu/acre, which is really not bad, about 73% of a commercial yield.
So what was wrong with the upper field? Ha, who knows! This experiment had no controls -- fertilization rate, seeding rate, the soil and shading all varied between the three plots.
But I have an answer for the most important question: can a spring barley adapted for growth in the Upper Midwest produce commercial yields in a California winter? Yes, almost.
I got around 73% of an average professional yield. The difference could reasonably have to do with how I managed the crop rather than the genetics of the strain. The plant survival rate was extremely high -- I can at least say that, and my inexperience in planting, fertilizing, and irrigating at proper rates could have easily shaved off a quarter of my yield. That is, there are plenty of factors that could account for the lower (but still not bad!) yield in addition to the strain's genetics.
At the very least, I can conclude that growing a midwest-adapted strain in the Bay Area is not a complete failure. It wasn't wiped out by disease, by pests, or by the switch from spring growing conditions to the Bay Area winter. I would be interested to see what type of yield a skilled farmer could get on a Bay Area farm.
I've been thinking about this recently because I have access to the same sections of the field again this winter! Woo hoooo!
The field is plowed and ready to plant.
I marked it off so it wouldn't get seeded with cover crop:
- So, what to do differently?
I will definitely do 7.5" rows this year. Thanks to wheatwarden for the suggestion to do so. But how dense to plant? If I were growing Conlon again, I would do about 12 seeds per foot, which in 7.5" rows works out to roughly 100 lb /acre.
But I grew up enough of the bere seed in 2011-2012 to plant a large area! That means I'll be 100% heirloom this time around. It will be really fantastic if I end up with enough bere to malt and make a few batches of beer. You can get bere beers from a few European breweries, but I've never had one. It will just be really fun to finally see the 5g of bere seeds I received from NPGS finally turn into beer!
- How much to plant?
A suggested seeding rate for Bere is 160 kg/ha, or 143 lb/acre. That's not too far away from the suggested rate of 130 lb/acre for Conlon, but it's significantly higher than I planted last year.
On top of that, bere is a much smaller seed than Conlon, so it will require more seeds planted per foot to achieve the same seeding rate on a mass basis. I just weighed 10 of my bere seeds, and they're about 29.4 mg each.
But what if my seeds are smaller than commercially produced bere seeds? What I really need is a suggested seeding rate in units of [seeds / area]. Luckily, that same paper suggests 530 seeds / m^2 for bere, which works out to 49 seeds / square foot, or 31 seeds per foot of 7.5" rows. This is a much higher planting rate of seeds / foot than I used two years ago, which was between 21 and 10 seeds per square foot.
With my measurement of 29.4 mg per bere seed, 31 seeds per foot in 7.5" rows works out to about 156 kg/ha. That's pretty close to the recommended 160 kg/ha, so I guess my seeds are a normal bere weight. That is reassuring, but it means I'll need 10.4 lbs to seed all three plots at this rate, and I only have about 8 lbs of bere seeds! I' think I'll stick to the recommended seeding rate, and start with the areas that yielded the most last time. Then just plant until I run out.
Two years ago, I found I had to push the EarthWay seeder pretty fast to get 12 seeds / ft, so I'll try different speeds with the bere seeds to get something like 15 seeds / ft, and then I can double up on each row to get 30 seeds / ft.
Why plant seeds so densely for bere? I am not really sure. In general, planting too densely can cause plants to compete with one another for light, growing ever higher and eventually lodging as they topple under their own weight. Planting too sparsely can lead to more tillering and uneven (and late) maturation. The later tillers simply get a later start, and therefore produce mature heads later. Each variety has its own sweet spot of planting rate and apparently bere's is just higher than Conlon's.
- So, how much to fertilize?
The Marin, Chang, and Wishart paper I linked to above suggests that bere doesn't increase its yield much in response to nitrogen addition. The anecdotes surrounding this variety are that it was
bred in nutrient-poor Scottish soils, and so doesn't require much nutrient addition.
Too much nitrogen can lead not only to poor malting characteristics, but also lodging, a condition I've experienced every time I've grown up bere so far! So, I think I won't add any nitrogen on top of the nitrogen already amended to the soil in the form of compost.
- How much to water?
I also plan to do a few deep irrigations throughout the growing season to promote deep root growth -- this may do something to ward off lodging.
- How about insects?
I'll check for aphids before elongation and decide whether to do a spray.
- Weeds?
I could spray for weeds right now, because there sure are some already popping up:
Glyphosate is safe, and I could use it with no problems. But since this is a historical variety, I'm curious to see what will happen if I only use historical methods. Maybe if I simply cultivate the field by hand and skip the glyphosate, I'll still get a decent yield. This would mean if aphids show up, I'll have to find a 19th century insecticide to spray. If the case arises, I'm sure I can find some nicotine somewhere...
Besides, that, I plan to set it and forget it. I learned a lot last time about how to farm a small grain, and this time I'm going to take advantage of that experience to do less work!
fifelee
Well-Known Member
I would guess your lower Conlon yields are due to lack of fertilizer. Your soil needs about 1.6lbs N, 0.3lb/ac P, and 5lb/ac K for every bushel. If possible the P should be 2" below the seed. Definitely try narrower rows, 7.5" and even 6" are common. Closer rows help shade the ground and better use nutrients. You are correct more N will result in lodging, but a lack on N,P,K will also limit your yield. Over time one learns the sweet spot to fertilize a piece of ground.
Bere not really responding to fertilizer is hard to get my head around. If I did my conversion correct, the paper you linked said the best Bere yields is only 60bu/ac. This is half of what irrigated farmers in my area can do with today genetics. I suppose Bere must have a genetic yield cap.
http://www.montana.edu/softwaredownloads/software/SBFertilizerEconomics.swf
http://landresources.montana.edu/so...t/publication pdfs/MT200703AG_fert_rec_ag.pdf
http://www.sarc.montana.edu/php/soiltest/
http://msuextension.org/publications/AgandNaturalResources/EB0186.pdf
Bere not really responding to fertilizer is hard to get my head around. If I did my conversion correct, the paper you linked said the best Bere yields is only 60bu/ac. This is half of what irrigated farmers in my area can do with today genetics. I suppose Bere must have a genetic yield cap.
http://www.montana.edu/softwaredownloads/software/SBFertilizerEconomics.swf
http://landresources.montana.edu/so...t/publication pdfs/MT200703AG_fert_rec_ag.pdf
http://www.sarc.montana.edu/php/soiltest/
http://msuextension.org/publications/AgandNaturalResources/EB0186.pdf
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Sup, fifelee. Thank you for those resources!
Genetic yield cap is how I interpret it, too. Bere was bred before Haber-Bosch made nitrogen cheap, so the bere was never selected to respond well.
That doesn't mean I shouldn't apply some fertilizer. Just like last time, I didn't know when the field was going to be tilled so I missed the opportunity to work a fertilizer application into the soil. But, I could still do a top application and wash it in.
Since I used the field last time it had summer corn with fertilizer, winter cover of oats, peas, and vetch, then summer corn +fertilizer again. It gets a compost amendment every other year.
Like usual with this mixed-use field, I don't really know how much N is already in the ground. I could add more, but every time I've done this in the past with bere it has lodged.
I'll have to think more about it. Any body have an opinion on what to do?
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Time to plant!
I wanted to do something about the copious weeds in the field, but in a 19th-century way. So I started cultivating the plot by hand with a three-prong cultivator.
I got about this far
before I said, to Scotland with this! My laziness has no bounds this second time around. I went straight into planting.
My old friend the EarthWay seeder became once again indispensable. You can see the little hopper for seeds. Inside of this is a plastic wheel, driven with a belt from the large front wheel, with slots that carry seeds up like a waterwheel to an opening. The seeds drop into the opening and fall down the black plastic chute into the tiny metal furrow / plough thing. This cuts a 2" furrow and deposits seeds. The metal chain then drags behind and pushes soil back into the furrow to cover the seeds. Then the large rear wheel is supposed to pack the soil over the buried seeds, but in practice it skips and bumps around quite a bit.
It has an aluminum arm hidden behind the rear bag of seeds. The arm can pivot to either side, and it has a sliding metal fork that digs into the ground just a little, marking the placement of the next row. (So if your next row is to the left, you put the arm on the left to mark it as you push. Then at the end of the row, you start seeding the marked row, and flip the arm to the right side to mark the following row.) I set the row width to 7.5".
Those bags are the product of two rounds of replicating bere seeds from the 5g I started with.
There was considerable corn debris left on the field
but it was easy to clear. I tested the seeder, and moving at a medium pace, it deposited about 15 seeds per foot. Even though bere is smaller, it's about the same rate it deposited Conlon. I remember I had to push the seeder quite fast to achieve the 12 seeds / foot I was shooting for last time.
I want 31 seeds / foot, so I seeded each row twice. After about an hour and a half of seeding, I was done
I didn't use up all the seeds, saving about 2 cups so I won't have to rely on the 5g I can get from NPGS if this crop fails. Just as I calculated, my 8 lbs of seeds wasn't enough to seed all of my land at 30 seeds / foot. But I seeded the parts that were most productive last time, leaving the upper half of the upper field fallow, basically the far end in this photo:
The EarthWay seeder had a side-benefit of disrupting the surface layer of soil. So all those weed seedlings did get uprooted after all, and I finished the entire job in about 2 hours.
I still need to think about a fertilizer addition and check the irrigation heads, but besides that, I plan to forget about it for a while.
As much fun as it would be to put a lot of time into this crop, checking growth rate against growing-degree days, putting up nets if the chickens start nibbling on it, and generally geeking out, I just don't have the time this year. I'll check on it again in January for aphids and fungus. Peace out, bere.
I wanted to do something about the copious weeds in the field, but in a 19th-century way. So I started cultivating the plot by hand with a three-prong cultivator.
I got about this far
before I said, to Scotland with this! My laziness has no bounds this second time around. I went straight into planting.
My old friend the EarthWay seeder became once again indispensable. You can see the little hopper for seeds. Inside of this is a plastic wheel, driven with a belt from the large front wheel, with slots that carry seeds up like a waterwheel to an opening. The seeds drop into the opening and fall down the black plastic chute into the tiny metal furrow / plough thing. This cuts a 2" furrow and deposits seeds. The metal chain then drags behind and pushes soil back into the furrow to cover the seeds. Then the large rear wheel is supposed to pack the soil over the buried seeds, but in practice it skips and bumps around quite a bit.
It has an aluminum arm hidden behind the rear bag of seeds. The arm can pivot to either side, and it has a sliding metal fork that digs into the ground just a little, marking the placement of the next row. (So if your next row is to the left, you put the arm on the left to mark it as you push. Then at the end of the row, you start seeding the marked row, and flip the arm to the right side to mark the following row.) I set the row width to 7.5".
Those bags are the product of two rounds of replicating bere seeds from the 5g I started with.
There was considerable corn debris left on the field
but it was easy to clear. I tested the seeder, and moving at a medium pace, it deposited about 15 seeds per foot. Even though bere is smaller, it's about the same rate it deposited Conlon. I remember I had to push the seeder quite fast to achieve the 12 seeds / foot I was shooting for last time.
I want 31 seeds / foot, so I seeded each row twice. After about an hour and a half of seeding, I was done
I didn't use up all the seeds, saving about 2 cups so I won't have to rely on the 5g I can get from NPGS if this crop fails. Just as I calculated, my 8 lbs of seeds wasn't enough to seed all of my land at 30 seeds / foot. But I seeded the parts that were most productive last time, leaving the upper half of the upper field fallow, basically the far end in this photo:
The EarthWay seeder had a side-benefit of disrupting the surface layer of soil. So all those weed seedlings did get uprooted after all, and I finished the entire job in about 2 hours.
I still need to think about a fertilizer addition and check the irrigation heads, but besides that, I plan to forget about it for a while.
As much fun as it would be to put a lot of time into this crop, checking growth rate against growing-degree days, putting up nets if the chickens start nibbling on it, and generally geeking out, I just don't have the time this year. I'll check on it again in January for aphids and fungus. Peace out, bere.
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
I really did want to set it and forget it. But, there's frost coming up tonight and tomorrow night. Should be about -3 C tomorrow morning right before sunrise. Frost usually isn't a big problem before jointing -- the meristem is hidden away below ground and protected from damage. Two years ago, there were several nights that dipped below freezing. But they came after the plants were established. Right now, my plants are so tiny:
Just one tiny leaf each. If those leaves get damaged, they may not be able to produce sugar effectively. And the plants may have to rely on what starch remains in the seed to produce the second leaf.
Not sure how big of a worry this is, but I feel much more comfortable about frosts that come after the plant has developed at least a few leaves.
What to do? I set the sprinklers to water a few times during the night tonight, tomorrow, and Friday. Let's hope if anything freezes, it will be the irrigation water, and not my tender leaves.
Probably, this won't be a problem at all.
Just one tiny leaf each. If those leaves get damaged, they may not be able to produce sugar effectively. And the plants may have to rely on what starch remains in the seed to produce the second leaf.
Not sure how big of a worry this is, but I feel much more comfortable about frosts that come after the plant has developed at least a few leaves.
What to do? I set the sprinklers to water a few times during the night tonight, tomorrow, and Friday. Let's hope if anything freezes, it will be the irrigation water, and not my tender leaves.
Probably, this won't be a problem at all.
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
Seedlings are up!
At least in the sunny parts. The shady parts are slightly behind:
That's ice. It's been freezing every night for a week. I've been watering at 1:00am and 4:00am to prevent frost damage, but it's not completely working:
Those yellow bands indicate freeze damage. Compare with this image of damage in spring barley seedlings in Idaho:
Damage to the plants this early probably won't have an effect on grain quality, but it may delay harvest! I already planted very late, and I don't want any delays.
You can also notice the tops of my leaves are cut off in flat lines. It reminds me of the predation I saw last time
Two years ago, there were chickens and guinea fowl roaming the field. I put up a net and that seemed to stop the damage, which made me think it was a large animal doing it. The guineas are now gone, but the damage continues. That leaves the chickens.
I learned last time that this predation doesn't affect overall plant health, and in the spirit of setting it and forgetting it, I'm not going to put up a net. Just hope it doesn't further delay grain maturity in the spring.
I sure wish these bere plants could have a perfect start, but I should be satisfied. I planted a spring barley in late November. There aren't many places above 30 degrees North you can get away with this, and a little frost damage is just a risk that comes with this style of farming.
Tonight should be the last night of freezing temps, so tomorrow I'll turn irrigation off for a while and let this sodden field dry out.
At least in the sunny parts. The shady parts are slightly behind:
That's ice. It's been freezing every night for a week. I've been watering at 1:00am and 4:00am to prevent frost damage, but it's not completely working:
Those yellow bands indicate freeze damage. Compare with this image of damage in spring barley seedlings in Idaho:
Damage to the plants this early probably won't have an effect on grain quality, but it may delay harvest! I already planted very late, and I don't want any delays.
You can also notice the tops of my leaves are cut off in flat lines. It reminds me of the predation I saw last time
Two years ago, there were chickens and guinea fowl roaming the field. I put up a net and that seemed to stop the damage, which made me think it was a large animal doing it. The guineas are now gone, but the damage continues. That leaves the chickens.
I learned last time that this predation doesn't affect overall plant health, and in the spirit of setting it and forgetting it, I'm not going to put up a net. Just hope it doesn't further delay grain maturity in the spring.
I sure wish these bere plants could have a perfect start, but I should be satisfied. I planted a spring barley in late November. There aren't many places above 30 degrees North you can get away with this, and a little frost damage is just a risk that comes with this style of farming.
Tonight should be the last night of freezing temps, so tomorrow I'll turn irrigation off for a while and let this sodden field dry out.
CitizenCane
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Just Found this thread. Makes me think I'm not the only crazy out there. I'm in the middle of malting some barley I grew a couple years ago and I am currently increasing 9 heirloom barleys in the greenhouse to plant out next spring.
Oh yeah there's a whole house full here lol!
So which heirloom varieties? I'd be interested to know which ones and why.
I'm growing Hana because it's a classis and a must for European style beers.
I'm growing Golden promise because it's the oldest one I could find using Google and the gene bank. I was going for Marris Otter but winter barley won't survive the winter here, so I have to go for spring varieties only.
I'm going to try some others as I discover them.
I'm also growing some wheats but that's more for bread making than beer.
So which heirloom varieties? I'd be interested to know which ones and why.
I'm growing Hana because it's a classis and a must for European style beers.
I'm growing Golden promise because it's the oldest one I could find using Google and the gene bank. I was going for Marris Otter but winter barley won't survive the winter here, so I have to go for spring varieties only.
I'm going to try some others as I discover them.
I'm also growing some wheats but that's more for bread making than beer.
CitizenCane
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'Marris Otter' is one of them. I don't have real high hopes of it making through my winters either but I figured I'll give it a go. 'Otis' was released by Colorado State Univ about 1950 and 'Moravian' was imported by Coors a few year after WWII from Czec. Both were grown in this area 60 years ago and were important to the development of the areas current barley industry. 'Chevalier' and 'Golden Pheasant' are an English and a Scottish land races. 'Kitzing', 'Bavarian', 'Gold Medal', and 'Poppenheim' are all German brewing barleys that were collected about 1900. Poppenheim is hulless and was first collected at a German brewhouse. Kitzing was important in its time and Bavarian and Gold Medal won awards in the Bavarian Barley and Hop Exposition, Munich, 1900. Its a crap shoot finding what might work for me but it will be more fun than Vegas.
My hope is to get +200g from each one in the greenhouse, and baring hail or something, close to a bushel of each in the field next year. This should be enough to malt and evaluate enough to determine which ones to increase again in 2015.
I blew some 'Turkey' wheat up the last few years and harvested about 10 bushel last summer. Turkey was the wheat that jump started the winter wheat industry in Kansas. There is about 3 pound worth of the Turkey in fermentor as we speak.
Anyway, it will be fun hearing others stories and sharing mine over the next few years.
My hope is to get +200g from each one in the greenhouse, and baring hail or something, close to a bushel of each in the field next year. This should be enough to malt and evaluate enough to determine which ones to increase again in 2015.
I blew some 'Turkey' wheat up the last few years and harvested about 10 bushel last summer. Turkey was the wheat that jump started the winter wheat industry in Kansas. There is about 3 pound worth of the Turkey in fermentor as we speak.
Anyway, it will be fun hearing others stories and sharing mine over the next few years.
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drummstikk
Well-Known Member
I wish I could like this post more than once. Amazing!
Let us know how the Turkey wheat tastes. What yeast are you using?
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