Why should I buy a grain mill?
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ChshreCat
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You can get your grains even cheaper in bulk. Bulk grains are unmilled.
TANSTAAFB
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What kind of efficiency do you get? Many people experience VASTLY improved efficiency milling their own over LHBS crush (they usually dial things back, some more than others, to either avoid stuck sparges or rip off their customers...depends on POV and LHBS).
Newbeerguy
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Just a wild guess but a tad lower eff. due to a coarser grind means more grains = more $$$.....not that there is anything wrong with that.
TANSTAAFB
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That's one reason many suspect. The other is that they have to grind to the lowest common denominator...e.g., the guy with the too fine mesh on his system that always gets a stuck sparge and complains.
Newbeerguy
Well-Known Member
That's one reason many suspect. The other is that they have to grind to the lowest common denominator...e.g., the guy with the too fine mesh on his system that always gets a stuck sparge and complains.
Very true, nothing worse than alot of unhappy customers with stuck sparges.
Frodo
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I just got one for xmas.
I really wanted one because (besides sometimes questioning the quality of the crush) I don't like having to run to the LHBS to get my grain for a recipe within a couple/few days of brewing. (Best to brew with fairly freshly milled grain). Especially when the LHBS ends up not having a particular type of grain I'm planning on using, then having to figure out a substitute on the spot... now I plan on having a bunch of base malt on hand, and smaller amts of a bunch of the specialty grains I usually use. And some specialty grains like Special Roast that neither of the LHBS near me even carry.
I really wanted one because (besides sometimes questioning the quality of the crush) I don't like having to run to the LHBS to get my grain for a recipe within a couple/few days of brewing. (Best to brew with fairly freshly milled grain). Especially when the LHBS ends up not having a particular type of grain I'm planning on using, then having to figure out a substitute on the spot... now I plan on having a bunch of base malt on hand, and smaller amts of a bunch of the specialty grains I usually use. And some specialty grains like Special Roast that neither of the LHBS near me even carry.
sweet_corn
Well-Known Member
It is nice to keep a supply of grains on hand and brew when you want with a fresh crush. With a little kid I don't know always when I will get to brew, so having the mill is a really nice feature. That and the base grains are 1/2 the price when bought in bulk...
I want to try brew-in-a-bag and that can take a finer crush or grind since stuck sparge isn't a problem. I live 30 minutes from the LHBS and they don't have a crusher either (very small section of a small store) so I'd have to order from someone online and shipping is exorbitant to this area. I bought a grain mill for about the shipping for 2 orders.
I don't drink a lot of beer so I wouldn't benefit from bulk purchase of milled grain. It would go bad before I could use it up.
I don't drink a lot of beer so I wouldn't benefit from bulk purchase of milled grain. It would go bad before I could use it up.
I do partial mash (5 lbs per batch), and have about 100 lbs of grain; a few different base malts and lots of specialty malts. Having a mill and lots of grain, I don't have to worry about if my LHBS has what I want, and I can make changes on the fly.
I buy some grain from my LHBS, but I buy most on-line because it works out cheaper. Buying larger quantities on-line reduces the effective $/lb of shipping.
I bought a Corona mill ($30 on-line from Buy.com with free shipping). I couldn't justify the cost of a Barley Crusher. When I started using the Corona mill (works great) my efficiency went from 70% to 80%.
I buy some grain from my LHBS, but I buy most on-line because it works out cheaper. Buying larger quantities on-line reduces the effective $/lb of shipping.
I bought a Corona mill ($30 on-line from Buy.com with free shipping). I couldn't justify the cost of a Barley Crusher. When I started using the Corona mill (works great) my efficiency went from 70% to 80%.
Golddiggie
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What crush size do you use?
mattldm
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I used to buy my grain from milled from AHS, but then I bought a grain mill and started doing my own. My efficiencies have gone up around 5% and I can now buy bulk grain and save $7-$10 per batch... The cost of the mill will be made up in ten batches.
Its worth the money!
Its worth the money!
I just adjusted it the first time to give a relatively fine crush of the kernel, but leaving the husk relatively whole, and have not touched it since. I got an immediate increase in efficiency that has remained.
'cause if feels really, really good to grind the snot out of grains. Sure, order from you're on-line shop and have them smash it...but nothing feels better than doing anything yourself. :rockin:
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Calder, I found this one on Buy.com: http://www.buy.com/prod/cereal-multi-grain-mill/q/loc/66357/211099781.html Looks like the standard "old school style" mill... Great price too. Pays for itself pretty fast when you get bulk grains (compared with getting them from the LHBS)... Plus, you can give purchased milled grains a second run to ensure they're at a good crush size for you.
Woodstone, whatever gives you pleasure... Grinding grains with a cranking mill could give someone pleasure... Me, I'll probably adapt mine pretty early to take my cordless drill to make it a bit easier on the old arms... Considering how my 'light' recipe's average about 12 pounds of grain in them, I don't think I'll do many all by hand...
Woodstone, whatever gives you pleasure... Grinding grains with a cranking mill could give someone pleasure... Me, I'll probably adapt mine pretty early to take my cordless drill to make it a bit easier on the old arms... Considering how my 'light' recipe's average about 12 pounds of grain in them, I don't think I'll do many all by hand...
rico567
Well-Known Member
I use the "Victoria" version of the Corona mill. Some people say use the width of a CD. I've read somebody say use a credit card (including the raised letters) to determine the spacing between the plates. What you need to do is crush until you're getting NO whole grains. This can mean a significant amount of flour, which is kind of scary, but I just dialed it down until I was hitting my Brix numbers in the wort with no trouble, and had no whole grains that I could detect. So far (maybe 20 batches) I've had no troubles with a stuck sparge or anything.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Problem with the credit card gauge is mine don't have raised letters anymore. I do have a dial caliper that I could use though.
Loving how I'm able to use my reloading equipment in brewing...
That's the one I got a year ago. Just a couple of comments on it.
It's good to have the bigger hopper (as this one has). It holds about 2 lbs. If you want bigger, I think you can fashion a milk container to add on the top.
You can replace the bolt in the handle with one with a square drive and run it with an electric drill. The thread is metric so you will need to go to the specialty area of the hardware store. I found a bolt in Lowes. Although I can drive it with a drill, I just hand crank. It only takes a couple of minutes of cranking for 5 lbs of grain.
It sits low to a table. Just a couple of inches clearance. You can fashion it to clamp on some wood and run straight into a bucket. Me I just place a low ceramic oven pan under it to catch the grain and tip it into a large bowl when full.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of adding a ~3L Poland Springs water bottle to the top (cut the opening larger, then slice the bottom off) to add more volume to the hopper. I do have some sheet metal on hand that I could fashion into a larger hopper if the bottle doesn't do it for me.
I figured I'd play it by ear on the crank for the first few times. Once I see how it goes, I might adapt it for my 1/2" cordless drill (a nice Dewalt model).
I've seen what some people have done to adapt their milling station to allow more grains to go through (on these pages/threads) which I might modify to fit my needs/situation. I would love to be able to mill the grain on brew-day, so that I could be assured of it's freshness. Not to mention dialing it in to get best results.
Check gap with a feeler gauge. If you have a car, you should have one of these.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
The one I have probably won't work properly (disc style for spark plugs)... BUT, I know there's a great one in my father's tool box (or at least there was last time I looked)... Next time I'm up at my sister/mother's place I'll have to see if it's still there, If it is, I'm swiping it (along with some more of his old Snap-On tools)... I know my sister and brother in law won't use any of those, and my mother doesn't use them either. They'll be all mine once I get a house anyway, so might as well take what I can use now.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
I've placed my dial caliper onto some cd's and get a reading of between .045 and .049, does that sound right for the gap you guys use? If so, would you re-crush (or crush if you get whole grains) to/below .039? Farmhouse Brewing Supply crushes their grain to .039, which is what I used yesterday to brew. Looking back at yesterday's brew day, and the poor efficiency numbers I got (really pitiful). I think it all comes down to the cooler being too wide to put enough water onto the grains.
I'm thinking (now) of just getting another 32-40 quart pot to use for the sparge (or mash) and forget about the cooler method for now. Or get a second grain bag and split the grist up into both so that they are submerged properly. With the ball valve I got leaking (a very slow leak, but still a leak) where it comes through the cooler, I'm leaning towards the second pot method.
I could pull the valve out of the cooler and install it into either the pot I have already, or the second pot I pick up. Since I got better results when I did the pot partial mash, I think I'll go back to that. Just need to decide if I want to install the valve into one of the pots, and use that for the boil off (would be easier to dump into the primary that way.
I'm thinking (now) of just getting another 32-40 quart pot to use for the sparge (or mash) and forget about the cooler method for now. Or get a second grain bag and split the grist up into both so that they are submerged properly. With the ball valve I got leaking (a very slow leak, but still a leak) where it comes through the cooler, I'm leaning towards the second pot method.
I could pull the valve out of the cooler and install it into either the pot I have already, or the second pot I pick up. Since I got better results when I did the pot partial mash, I think I'll go back to that. Just need to decide if I want to install the valve into one of the pots, and use that for the boil off (would be easier to dump into the primary that way.
rico567
Well-Known Member
I cranked the plates down until I got scared; then I tightened it a bit more.....
Well, I guess you guys gave some good reasons but I don't see where you can get bulk grain for 50% off of the usual LHBS milled price. The cheapest 2 row bag I've seen is $50 for 50#, which is a buck a pound, and I can get it milled from AHS for 1.25. Sure, there's shipping, but AHS gives a flat rate ($8) and I'd have to buy hops and yeast anyway.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
It's not ONLY about cost savings. For one thing, you can get a 50-55 pound sack of grain, keeping it whole until brew day, then mill/crush your own grain right before brewing, ensuring it's as fresh as possible. Otherwise, unless you're going to use all your crushed grain in ~2 months, you shouldn't purchase large amounts.
Another factor is you can crush grain to the size that works best for your setup/system. You might want it a little finer, or coarser than the LHBS (or other source) crushes grain at. Having your own mill/crusher gives you that option...
Since I'm about to start a new job, when I'm ready for more grain (should be in about 3-4 weeks) I'll be getting all whole grain, and a double roller crusher... I'll plan on crushing the grain on brew day, so that I know it's as fresh as possible. I plan on having the adapter (on hand) to use my cordless drill with the mill, so I can either hand crank it (to set the crush size) or go powered (once size is set for the grain)...
Find a brew group in your area.
I'm putting together a bulk grain buy in the next couple weeks. 2-Row is $0.46lbs, MO is $0.69 lbs.
Toecutter
Well-Known Member
Got a monster mill for Christmas. Was shocked at how much my efficiency went up. I thought at first mabee i measured my grain wrong and used to much.....nope, it was the mill. Nice to get 2 row for $33 a bag.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
What was your efficiency before, and now?
From what I've been told, by brewers with their own mills, the flavor of the brew will also be improved when crushing on brew day... I'm itching to test this out... Just need the paycheck's to start coming in (start work either on the 17th, or the week after)...
Toecutter
Well-Known Member
Lets just say my OG went from 1.045 to 1.060 with the same amount of grain on my first crush with the new mill. At first I thought I dident have it adjusted right, so i readjusted and crushed a second time.
I had been adding extra grain to my mashes to compensate and try to hit my OG target. Now I can cut back.
Whaa?
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Very nice... I'm hoping to hit the 75-80% (or better) range once I get my own mill... I'm brewing either tomorrow or Monday (last weekday brewing unless it's on a vacation
), with the BIAB method (in a large pot) since last weekends attempt to use a cooler mash tun went poorly. The brew on deck has 11 pounds of grain in the recipe (5 gallon batch), so I shouldn't have any issue with using enough water in the mash, to make for a smaller sparge volume (20 quart pot for sparge, 32 quart for mash/boil)... I want to dial in my process for BIAB right now. Once I get the mill, I'll be able to get more reliable results.
Frodo
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You're not looking too hard then. US 2-row is closer to $35/50 lb online. Morebeer has 50 lb sacks a bit lower than that, as do some of the other online HBS. It's usually under a different tab something like "bulk grain" or "full sacks of grain". For example:
http://morebeer.com/view_product/17159/102161/Domestic_2-Row_50lbs
An smaller LHBS will likely be charging a little more, but the price goes way down when you buy a whole sack.
Atvar
Well-Known Member
Morebeer 50lb of 2 Row with shipping is $82.72.
AHS 27.5lb Canadian 2 row with free* shipping $27.49.
AHS 50lb Brewers 2 row with free* shipping $53.99.
My nearest LHBS 30min away 50lb 2 row is I think $70.00.
My nearest well stocked LHBS 1h away in Pittsburgh 50lb 2 row is $50.00.
BMW 50lb 2 row with 10% off is $51.75.
There just aren't many options in some areas, I've looked.
I got a mill for christmas and just bought a 50lb sack for $50. It will save me $1.75 from my usual buying grain kits from BMW. It's basically the same cost for me, but now I can brew and alter recipes on a whim, like adding some real malt to the mr. beer kit I was just given for christmas. It might also save BMW some cash from paying to ship that much really cheap grain across the country... it'd be interesting to know the actual shipping costs per pound.
If you're paying $1.25/lb milled and can get unmilled at $1.00/lb, a mill would pay for itself over time - ~2 sacks for a corona mill, or ~10 sacks for a nice barley crusher mill that will keep its value.
Frodo
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Point noted. I was referring to "bulk" grain price, not with shipping included, which I guess you have to factor in if you must have it shipped. $70 for a sack of basic 2-row at your LHBS? And $50 at a larger one near Pittsburgh? Wow those are big markups. Granted I have no idea what their turnover is, but that seems way too high to me... Even in California they're not marked up nearly as much, and we certainly aren't known for cheap goods. At one of the LHBS near here a bag of Great Western 2-row is $38, and they're not known for their cheap pricing.
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The same reason I bought a 15.5 gallon keg with a nozzle. To be awesome.
Sheldon
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Aside from group buys, is the consensu that AHS (with free shipping on orders of $100) is the most economical for bulk 2 Row buys on line? I am putting together an order and my research had verified AHS as the choice. Looking for better sourced input.
Thanks
Thanks
