sour cider

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hunter006

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Hi all
On my third batch of cider..
Recipe:
4L Apple juice from concentrate
1lb Honey
1Lb Light brown sugar
1pkt Cider yeast 11g
1/2 L warm water for sugar and honey.
Now I was advised to add 1 campden tab in the first 24h after 12h I added pectolase then everything else. SG was 1.110 checked this again after 1 week of slow fermentation at between 14-18c, its still bubbling slowly FG is 1.000 . The taste is somewhat strong but my main concern is that it tastes kind of SOUR. Goinh to transfer to secondary for clearing , kill the yeaties, add finnongs and back sweeten with pear juice. Will the sourness go or is this batch rotten?
TIA
 
With that high of an OG, you are probably going to need to let this one age for a while in order to mellow out and bring the apple flavors back around.
 
Yeah going to , been finding loads on cider stating that aging mellows everything. So the sour taste is ok then?
 
I think 'sour' is probably described differently by each person. My definition of 'sour' might be "HOLY CRAP!"...to someone else. Also if you are killing the yeasties and back sweetening, that pear juice might bring it back around.
 
I've never had a commercial cider that was as dry as an unsweetened home made cider.

I have...there's plenty out there, but you won't find them at typical retail locations. Most of your super-dry champagne-style ciders will usually come from specialty wineries and cider houses.

There is a winery and ciderworks in Thurmond, NC that produces a WICKED dry cider. It's the blend of apples they use and letting it ferment completely dry.
 
Ok thanks all, going to see how this turns out. Have transfered to a secondary , aded 1 campden tab and 1/2 tsp of stabilizer and giving it a good swirl over the next 2 days. Now what I cant fid out is what temp im supposed to do this at as it is trying to clear but only about an inch from the top. Also in a couple of day will add some finnings. Should I keep it cold from the point of adding the finnings? Going to ship it to the shed as temps should be around 4c for the next 3-4 days..
So basically are my procedures correct.
Also when all is clear and I have transfered again I will be adding pear juice as this stuff is way too strong.
TIA
 
Well, not much help there.!! Anyway went ahead with the finings but it has sed in the bottom, after reading the pkt I niticed itbalso had sulphites in it. The sediment dropped out almost immediatly..but has left this haze again. Its now in my shed at about 4c hoping it will clear. Can too much sulphite ruin it? As I added this and 1 crushed tab after fermentation.
Tia
 
Lol.. thanks PP almost seems your the only person on these forums.. I try and find out as much as poss trawling the net but some things are less informative, maybe obvious to some but...
Thanks again
 
I wish I could be more help. I rarely use sulfites (or any chems for that mater) so I can only speculate on how they work based on reading and researching. It sounds like you are on the right track. The fun thing about making hard cider (other than the alcohol) is that you can change up your methods along the way after getting a few batches under your belt. If this one doesn't clear up or is not the way you like it, try something different. I feel that the more simple you can make your methods, you will be more inclined to make your own cider instead of buying it. If it's a pain to do or you have to stress over new techniques, you might just put it off until tomorrow.

I love reading about everyone's experiences on here! I love hearing someone say "I LOVE MY CIDER!" Because...well...I LOVE the cider I make and that's the only person I'm brewing for. ;)
 
I use sulfites in every batch. Tasted way too much infected and oxidized cider over the years not to take such an inexpensive precaution. It is possible to over do it, but it'll take a lot of sulfites (100-150 ppm) all at once and the taste will become apparent in the cider. Luckily, it seems like you're well within 'normal' ranges for sulfite use, and should you ever add too much just wait, and the free SO2 will bind up over time and the sulfer taste will go away.

You can measure the amount of free SO2 in your cider really easily with these http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/titrets-10-pack-sulfite-tester.html

When working with fresh pressed juice, I like to add 50ppm 24 hrs prior to pitching the yeast. 50ppm at racking, and maybe 30-40 ppm in the bottling bucket. By the time it's drunk the free SO2 is down to 15-20ppm where 99.99% of people can't sense it's presence.
 
give it time, the sour will mellow out i prefer to wait 6 months for my dry ciders and every month after that they just keep getting better.
 
Still waiting for it to clear a bit more. Think I made a mistake of rackinging it to secondary, and after a day or 2 addeding the finings not taking notice of all the sediment at the dottom. Gave it a good stir and churnd it all up, this all dropped out within about 2 mins bit left it hazy so now moved it to the shed where it can sit in cooler temps. Will probably leave t for another week the rack again, back sweeten with pear juice. Need to bring the FG up. Can almost run the car on this stuff at the moment, will bring it down to about 7% where its drinkable. . Will post the final result in a couple of weeks.
 
Just remember that the pear juice likely has pectin in it, so it may cloud things back up. You will also want to wait 1-2 weeks after backsweetening because you will likely drop even more sediment.

In regard to the amount of sediment present now, how much is there? If greater than 1/4" you likely want to go ahead and rack off of that sediment. To me, cider tends to be one thing that does not do well when left on the lees. But, that is just me.
 
After fermentation I racked to secondary then racked again after adding the finings as there was quite a bit of sediment but now hardly any at all. It has cleared a bit but not what I was hoping to achieve. Don't think im going to get to anal over it, just going to rack again at the end of this week the back sweeten. Would it be worth adding more pectolase at that point or just go with it.. got to laugh as ive made 3 batches but learn t soo much.. probably just backsweeten then bottle and dispatch to friends for feed back. Hoping to progress to a stout kit soon and start learning all over again, altho trial and error a pain it is quite addictive..
 
Hi all, just a quick update to cider.
Just dacksweetend with more apple juice and yes the sourness did subside a bit after two weeks. Managed to get the fg back to about 1.020 just to make it more palatable. Still sitting at around 12% so going to let it sit for another week or 2 to mellow..
So as a newbie new
Thought that hard cider would nice but imho Not really. SG should be no higher than 1.060 (strong is not necessarily good).
Do not add finings when sediment is present ( racking to third maybe necessary).
Leave for at LEAST a couple of weeks before backsweetening to allow cider to sort itself out.
I can now compare batches and realised that 1 gl juice 200g brew sugar and wine yeast gave me a better crisp dry cider rather than something I cant smoke near in fear of bursting into flames..
Thanks again all for all your help in my first brewing days, but no dout there'll be more questions in the near future..
 
Sounds like you're on the right track and have learned a lot from this batch. I agree...anything over 1.060 is a bit to high in my opinion. (Unless you are making apple wine)

Don't give up on cider ;) it's a very refreshing beverage and easy to ferment once you figure out your technique and what you like to drink. It's all about patience. Rack once to get it off the initial lees, then let it do its thing for a month or so.

Beer? Now you're talking. If you like the "process" of recipes and mash temps and hops etc....there's nothing more interesting. I love making beer. Once you move to partial mash or all grain, ingredients are relatively inexpensive.

Good luck with everything!
 
I find that bottles are what really helps cider. Some time in a bottle in the fridge, all nice and stable, is a huge boon to cider.

I usually sweeten pretty heavily, but I have a batch of RUTHLESSLY sharp blackberry cider going now. Morbid curiosity led me to bottle it dry. We shall see!
 
Stupid is it may sound , but you speak of blackberry cider. Now I know you can get fruit cider but the process of wine and cider is the same , is it not . So please tell as to how you would determine the difference between, Apple wine/cider, blackberry wine/cider or is it the base of the brew which decides the out come!!?? I mean if I make a cider why can it not be a wine if its dry as it tastes a bit like white wine.
 
Thanks for the post you guys! I was worried! My first batch took 2 weeks. I had 6 gallons of apple juice from Costco, added 2 pounds of dark brown sugar. I added a cup of dark brown sugar before I bottled then and 6 gallons went quick. Everyone liked it.

Then I just did one the same way but with light brown sugar and it's cooler this time of the year. Does that make a deference? Because it's a bit sour. :cross:
 
Your gravity reading might be lower on this batch than the previous batch. Do you know the readings of both?

Dark brown sugar will probably add a touch more molasses or caramel flavor, but the fermentable part should still be the same.

It's also possible that the juice you used this time is a different blend or late season apples. I use costco juice also and it seems pretty consistent here in the South East.
 
Update on my sour cider..
After 2 weeks sitting in my shed.
Backsweetend with 2L apple juice
FG is still giving me 12%
Been sitting in fridge for 5 days
First proper glass tonight and WOW , this stuff has changed soo much, no sourness and can hardly taste the alcohol anymore !!
Could do with a fizz tho, I find that more refreshing.
What happens when using a soda stream..????
 
I have...there's plenty out there, but you won't find them at typical retail locations. Most of your super-dry champagne-style ciders will usually come from specialty wineries and cider houses.

There is a winery and ciderworks in Thurmond, NC that produces a WICKED dry cider. It's the blend of apples they use and letting it ferment completely dry.

I hear ya PP, I guess it's a regional thing, around here ciders aren't that popular and everyone is sickly sweet. The driest thing you will find in my town is Strongbow.
 
Your gravity reading might be lower on this batch than the previous batch. Do you know the readings of both?

Dark brown sugar will probably add a touch more molasses or caramel flavor, but the fermentable part should still be the same.

It's also possible that the juice you used this time is a different blend or late season apples. I use costco juice also and it seems pretty consistent here in the South East.
I don't know what my first batch was, because I was too eager and didn't have everything I should have. On the second batch, I showed SG at 1.09 on 2/14 and today 3/1 it is at 1.00. Right now when I tested it, it was super bubbly. On the air lock probably a bubble every 9 seconds.
 
The airlock activity is just CO2 coming out of solution. (Is 'off-gassing' a word?) You just pissed it off when you took the reading ;) This happens to me quite a bit on my beers. Glad to hear the flavor has come back around for you!
 
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