What am I missing with BIAB?

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
jamorgan3777

jamorgan3777

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Messages
183
Reaction score
41
Location
Appleton
When I started brewing about two years ago, I did a few extract batches and then went straight to BIAB and all grain. I never even considered a 2 or 3 vessle systems and have made many great brews (in my and my neighbors opinions). However, I am now looking to go from gas fired BIAB to electric BIAB and was wondering if I should consider going 3 vessel HERMS or RIMS. I LOVE the simplicity of BIAB but almost all of my parts can be used in a 3 vessel system. What am I missing out on? Why do so many people go 3 vessel?
 
Here is my two cents worth. I think that many people got into all grain brewing before there were accepted procedures such as batch sparging or no sparge methods. That is, they got their systems set up before BIAB brewing really became popular. I am not sure that there are that many people moving from BIAB to Three-Vessel brewing. I do know that there are some who are moving from Three-Vessel brewing to BIAB because of the simplicity of it all.

I have not done BIAB, but I am intrigued by the idea.

Mark
 
I went from traditional mash tun (cooler) AG and kettle on a propane burner to single vessel recirculating E-BIAB with a 15.5 gallon keggle and plate chiller.

Lovin it. My rig sits on the wheeled chassis from an old gas grill I once had. I installed a simple game hoist on the ceiling on the garage to lift and hold the grain bag. It takes up little space and I can easily wheel it around as needed for filling, cleaning, etc.. When I'm done cleaning it, I unplug the control box (built using one of PJ's schematics) from the spa panel and store it inside the house.
 
It's tougher to do step mashes via BIAB, but I never do them, so I stick with the system that cost me nothing to build and costs nothing to keep doing.
 
I'm already at 10 gallon batches, and I see larger in my future. I batch sparge Dennybrew style, so cash layout was minimal.

If I was only doing 5 gallons at a time I would probably BIAB. How big of a grain bill can you do in a keggle with a 10 gallon batch?
 
SpentGrains said:
I'm already at 10 gallon batches, and I see larger in my future. I batch sparge Dennybrew style, so cash layout was minimal.

If I was only doing 5 gallons at a time I would probably BIAB. How big of a grain bill can you do in a keggle with a 10 gallon batch?
Click to expand...

I've done 30 lb grain bills in mine. Could probably do more, just haven't needed to yet.
 
The main reason that I see for going from BIAB to a 3 vessel system is batch size. I have a hard enough time lifting the grain bag out with 5 gallon batches, never mind larger.
 
zacster said:
The main reason that I see for going from BIAB to a 3 vessel system is batch size. I have a hard enough time lifting the grain bag out with 5 gallon batches, never mind larger.
Click to expand...


Are you lifting the bag out by hand or with mechanical assistance?

I'm using one of these (minus the clothes hanger looking thing) which is working nicely - http://www.amazon.com/Hunters-Specialties-Lift-System-Gambrel/dp/B003RY9YIU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I could probably pull off a 10 gallon batch of a light/moderate gravity brew, but I don't really need that kind of volume at this time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am about to do my first biab tomorrow, ive been doing a more traditional ag setup.

For lifting the bag, i probably have overkilled it since i have an engine hoist in my garage lol
 
BigFloyd said:
Are you lifting the bag out by hand or with mechanical assistance?

I'm using one of these (minus the clothes hanger looking thing) which is working nicely - http://www.amazon.com/Hunters-Specialties-Lift-System-Gambrel/dp/B003RY9YIU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I could probably pull off a 10 gallon batch of a light/moderate gravity brew, but I don't really need that kind of volume at this time.
Click to expand...

I do it by hand. I'd rather invest in other equipment before spending on a hoist, never mind where I'd do it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have done both 3 tier and BIAB. I dislike messing with the heavy, hot, sticky, messy process involved with BIAB. I am not in a hurry so any time savings of BIAB do not come into my needs.

3 gallon BIAB will be in the cards during the winter when I will not want to brew outside.

As far as the finished product, given fine tuning of the processes and system there should be no difference.
 
zacster said:
I do it by hand. I'd rather invest in other equipment before spending on a hoist, never mind where I'd do it.
Click to expand...

Well, as I was in the midst of building a PID-controlled 240V/5500W recirculating E-BIAB system, the extra $22.97 (shipped) for the game hoist was chump change.

It has turned out to be worth every penny and then some.:D
 
zacster said:
The main reason that I see for going from BIAB to a 3 vessel system is batch size. I have a hard enough time lifting the grain bag out with 5 gallon batches, never mind larger.
Click to expand...

That's my biggest reason, right there. I simply can't lift a 10 gallon batch's worth of wet heavy grain. I brew indoors, and I'm not about to have a hoist and drippy grain hanging from my ceiling, so that's out as well.

I also mix up my water, with my RO water system and tap water, so I prepare my water in the HLT. I like having a separate HLT for that reason. Most people probably don't need a separate HLT, but those that like them really like them!

If I was doing 5 gallon sized batches or less, and not making RO water in advance, I'd consider doing BIAB.

It's a great way to brew for some, and for others it has limitations. I don't think there is any "one size fits all" set up for brewers. I've seen one vessel systems, two vessel systems, and three vessel systems. Some have three tiers, others two tiers, others one tier. Some of the best brewers I know have a burner and a bucket. It all works!
 
zacster said:
The main reason that I see for going from BIAB to a 3 vessel system is batch size. I have a hard enough time lifting the grain bag out with 5 gallon batches, never mind larger.
Click to expand...

OK, I will counterpoint here. Larger batches can easily and neatly be done w/ BIAB. I brew in a finished carpeted basement, and 2-3 drops of spilled wort is my limit, with zero being typical.

The key to large batch BIAB brewing is a simple ratchet pulley, a large open kettle to let the bag drain into, and a large rubbermaid tub or bin right beside the kettle to swing and drop the drained grain bag into to haul outside for the waiting deer herd. It's all in a well planned process, we can all lift 30 lbs for a second, isn't that what an empty keggle weighs?

I'll mail you out a bag and pulley Yoop, C'mon all the kids are doin it...haha :mug:
 
I'm sure it isn't hard to set up, but I brew in my kitchen and I don't think I'd like to see the pulleys or even the hook.

I don't have a deer herd either in Brooklyn, but one time I left the grains out my back door and the squirrels were all gathering, and getting angry that I was taking it back in.

I don't plan on ever going over the 5 gallon batch. That's just the right amount until you start needing to brew something else.
 
daksin said:
It's tougher to do step mashes via BIAB, but I never do them, so I stick with the system that cost me nothing to build and costs nothing to keep doing.
Click to expand...

Confused on this. I find step mashes extremely easy with BIAB - just turn on the burner, stir for a couple of minutes until you hit your desired temp, then kick off the burner. I do this all the time with raw wheat for protein rests when making witbiers. I also don't use a false bottom or anything with my bag - never had a problem with scorching/melting of the bag with the burner on.

Agree 100% on sticking with BIAB. The only reason I see to go with a different method is larger batch size.
 
Yes I agree, step mashes or adjusting mash yen is very easy with BIAB.

However, Even larger batches are easily done with a well planned method to lift the bag...I have done grain bills over 35 lbs without issue...cheers!
 
I can't speak to 10 gallon batches, but I lift the grain bag out of a 5 gallon batch with little problem and I am no muscle man. I never saw the need for a pulley system since I don't sit there and let it drain over the kettle for a long time. I lift it out, hold it for a few seconds while the bulk of liquid pours out, then put the bag in a collander suspended over a bucket. While the bag continues to drain I fire up the kettle. Just before boiling I dump whatever dripped in to the bucket during the wait. I do squeeze the bag a bit. There is very little mess.

Now maybe a 10 gallon batch would require some hauling. IDK

My process works for me and I got it streamlined. I would need some serious convincing to go to a more involved 3 tier system.
 
One tip to make it easier to lift the bag - don't try and pull it out all at once. Raise it so some of the grain is out of the water and some in. The wort will mostly run out of the exposed grain. Then lift some more and more water will run out. This takes an extra 20 seconds, but it is easy and while not light , still weighs less than lifting on one shot.
 
Can I ask why it's ok to squeeze this bag but not a specialty grain bag when doing an extract steep?
 
Fat_Maul said:
Can I ask why it's ok to squeeze this bag but not a specialty grain bag when doing an extract steep?
Click to expand...

I've been told that squeezing steeping grains isn't really an issue, just a myth. I do it. But I'm sure you'll get different opinions on that.
 
Base malt, specialty grains it doesn't matter to me, I squeeze them both like they owe me money.

-deicide
 
thanks guys, I don't want to hijack the thread or open a can of worms, I think I got the picture
 
BigFloyd said:
Are you lifting the bag out by hand or with mechanical assistance?

I'm using one of these (minus the clothes hanger looking thing) which is working nicely - http://www.amazon.com/Hunters-Specialties-Lift-System-Gambrel/dp/B003RY9YIU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I could probably pull off a 10 gallon batch of a light/moderate gravity brew, but I don't really need that kind of volume at this time.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of the Alton Brown turkey fryer method. I may have to pick one of those up for myself.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Those 4 part game hoists are pretty nice, but just my opinion it is way more lifting power than you need...I also prefer a ratchet pulley that lock and will suspend the bag for draining. I have used a pulley that doesn't ratchet lock, and I felt panicked that if you accidentally lose grip on the rope, the grain bag falls... Locking ratchet pulley FTW.
 
wilserbrewer said:
OK, I will counterpoint here. Larger batches can easily and neatly be done w/ BIAB. I brew in a finished carpeted basement, and 2-3 drops of spilled wort is my limit, with zero being typical.

The key to large batch BIAB brewing is a simple ratchet pulley, a large open kettle to let the bag drain into, and a large rubbermaid tub or bin right beside the kettle to swing and drop the drained grain bag into to haul outside for the waiting deer herd. It's all in a well planned process, we can all lift 30 lbs for a second, isn't that what an empty keggle weighs?

I'll mail you out a bag and pulley Yoop, C'mon all the kids are doin it...haha :mug:
Click to expand...

My concern with setting up in my basement is the condensation issues with the boil. Do you have any type of exhaust fan?:mug:
 
SDJay said:
My concern with setting up in my basement is the condensation issues with the boil. Do you have any type of exhaust fan?:mug:
Click to expand...

Yes, I open a window and place an old fan in front of the window that is behind the brew rig... It falls behind a little during the boil, but easily airs out the basement 10 minutes after flameout. Funny thing, no smell upstairs during the boil, but the back yard smells like a brewery.
A window and a fan is a good low tech, low cost alternative to a fancy $$$ exhaust hood IME.
 
Deicide said:
Base malt, specialty grains it doesn't matter to me, I squeeze them both like they owe me money.

-deicide
Click to expand...

+1000 LOL - that made me burst out laughing :D

I, too, am an unabashed squeezer (actually more of a presser, as I put the bag in a steamer basket on top of the kettle and press damn near every last drop out of it with silicone oven mitts on).

For OP, you aren't missing anything with BIAB except larger batch sizes IMHO (and even that is doable up to a point with a pulley rig). You gain simplicity, easy clean up, and in most cases, some efficiency. You do get a bit more trub in the fermenter (if you go with a finer crush), but it does not affect quality or clarity.
 
I went from a year or so of extract to BIAB - currently on my 7th BIAB batch - and while I feel I'm missing out on some of the traditional elements/components of AG brewing I have to admit I enjoy the simplicity.

Seems like BIAB gets looked down on a little and I'm not sure why. Thanks to wonderful forums like this one adjustments in my process - especially a grain crusher and temp-controlled fermentation - have helped me improve efficiency and make better beer.

And at the end of the day that's all I care about....
 
Going to hit BIAB batch #100 within the next couple of months (#97 is currently in primary). I've brewed with friends and my brother on alternate systems. In fact, my brother just setup a sweet HERMS system. While I think it is really cool (ooh, shiny!), I don't envy his cleaning chore at the end of the brew day. Ultimately, I guess I'm a lazy (and cheap) bastard, and because of that I'm happy to stick with BIAB.

If I had any interest in making larger batches, I would almost certainly build a HERMS or RIMS system. But, my BIAB setup makes great beer (which is the point), and I like making 5 gallon batches so I always have something new. So, there is no motivation to switch, and I don't feel like I am missing anything because of it. If you feel like you are missing something, go brew with a buddy on his/her fancy system to get your fix, then come home, BIAB, and RDWHAHB ;-)

Here is the equipment I use:
--
15 gallon kettle (Bayou Classic Aluminum)
Bayou Classic Burner
Barley Crusher Mill (set tight)
Homemade voile bag (Bag is on ~ 60 batches - still the original bag from when I upsized my kettle)
Grate with steamer basket on top of it for draining bag after mash (and silicone oven mitts for pressing it)
Homemade Hop spider
Copper Immersion Chiller (did I mention I'm lazy? No plate or other counterflow chiller for me - too hard to clean/sanitize!)
Drill with paint stirrer that sits on the grate for whirlpooling while chilling (did I mention I'm lazy?)
4-5 buckets for capturing waste water from chilling (used for cleanup: nice hot/warm cleaning water for winter, rest is used to water trees/bushes)
Autosiphon for transfer from kettle to fermenter
- If I want clean yeast, I'll lift and pour through a filter bag on top of my bucket - more work, but beautiful clean yeast cake - absolutely no hops in fermenter. Also aerates like crazy.
O2 tank for aeration (again, lazy)
Temp-controlled wine fridge for fermenting (and cold crashing)

I also almost exclusively use buckets for fermenters because they are easy to clean and carry.

I also don't stir my mashes any more (really lazy).
 
I can't wait to start BIAB, I'm really glad I learned about it before diving into a 'traditional' 2 or 3 vessel system. Now I just need to finish moving and start brewing!
 
wilserbrewer said:
Those 4 part game hoists are pretty nice, but just my opinion it is way more lifting power than you need...I also prefer a ratchet pulley that lock and will suspend the bag for draining. I have used a pulley that doesn't ratchet lock, and I felt panicked that if you accidentally lose grip on the rope, the grain bag falls... Locking ratchet pulley FTW.
Click to expand...


The cheapo game hoist I use has a little gizmo that locks the rope in place. I hoist the bag to just a few inches out of the wort, lock the rope, and let it suspend there for a few minutes. A few inches higher, lock the rope again and it's ready to be squeezed with a couple of sauce pot lids. By the time it gets moved over to the final drain tub, it's not dripping at all. While all that's going on, I kick the PID up to 100% manual to get the boil going.
 
cyclonite said:
+1000 LOL - that made me burst out laughing :D

I, too, am an unabashed squeezer (actually more of a presser, as I put the bag in a steamer basket on top of the kettle and press damn near every last drop out of it with silicone oven mitts on).

For OP, you aren't missing anything with BIAB except larger batch sizes IMHO (and even that is doable up to a point with a pulley rig). You gain simplicity, easy clean up, and in most cases, some efficiency. You do get a bit more trub in the fermenter (if you go with a finer crush), but it does not affect quality or clarity.
Click to expand...

cyclonite;

What efficiency % do you usually get? I press for a good 10 minutes with two SS trays from ikea. But kind of stuck at ~70%. Thinking of doing a dunk in a separate pot of water as a better way to extract sugars. So instead of doing a full 7 gallons of water in my main kettle, maybe 5 gallons in that one and 2 gallons in a seperate pot.
 
I just did a 10 gal batch of run of a 1051 gravity pale ale and got 77%. I usually count on 80% efficiency. Adding a little more grain is much easier than multiple dunks in multiple pots ( more to clean up at the end of the session) I have always taken the stance that efficiency is much more about reproducability than getting it as high as possible. My next project is to set up some sort of grain bag hoist. A $15 manual boat winch and a couple of pulleys and we should be all set. I have been hoisting by hand and its not too bad, but can be a little difficult when brewing alone. I am also perfecting my grain bag. Getting the right taper is critical to getting good drainage.
 
Cider123 said:
I can't speak to 10 gallon batches, but I lift the grain bag out of a 5 gallon batch with little problem and I am no muscle man. I never saw the need for a pulley system since I don't sit there and let it drain over the kettle for a long time. I lift it out, hold it for a few seconds while the bulk of liquid pours out, then put the bag in a collander suspended over a bucket. While the bag continues to drain I fire up the kettle. Just before boiling I dump whatever dripped in to the bucket during the wait. I do squeeze the bag a bit. There is very little mess.

Now maybe a 10 gallon batch would require some hauling. IDK

My process works for me and I got it streamlined. I would need some serious convincing to go to a more involved 3 tier system.
Click to expand...

I too don't find it all that difficult to lift the grain bag out for a 5 gallon batch. With my equipment, I can't do more than a 5 gallon batch and my biggest grain bill might have been around 16 #'s dry although my typical grain bills are around 13 #'s or so.

I did try to build a pulley using a ladder when I first started BIAB. I bought a turkey fryer basket and it seemed to work pretty well. But the problem I faced is that I use a two kettle system. I mash in a 7.5 gal kettle which the fryer basket fits nicely in. But to achieve my desired pre-boil volume as well as a higher efficiency, I sparge in a 5 gal. kettle and the problem is, my fryer basket is too wide to fit in the 5 gal. kettle so I just scrapped the pulley system and just lift with my arms. And like Cider, I'm no muscle bound guy and I've found it to be no problem to lift the bag and let it drain a couple of minutes over the kettle...
 
Pointyskull said:
I went from a year or so of extract to BIAB - currently on my 7th BIAB batch - and while I feel I'm missing out on some of the traditional elements/components of AG brewing I have to admit I enjoy the simplicity.

Seems like BIAB gets looked down on a little and I'm not sure why. Thanks to wonderful forums like this one adjustments in my process - especially a grain crusher and temp-controlled fermentation - have helped me improve efficiency and make better beer.

And at the end of the day that's all I care about....
Click to expand...

I started out brewing extract for about a year and I was convinced it was excellent beer that I was making. I actually started out brewing at a Brew on Premise and we brewed extract brews there and my extract homebrews were better than anything I brewed there so that was what I was going off of. Because of this, I wasn't interested in investing the time, money and energy in upgrading to a 3 tier AG system. Then I found out about BIAB and with some reading into it, and the fact that the only additional investment was a bag, I decided to take the plunge.

And now over a year later, I'm so glad I took that plunge! I thought I was making excellent beer , but the AG brews blow away anything I made using extract. Not to mention how much cheaper it is to brew AG as opposed to brewing with extract!

With the quality of beer that I can make using BIAB on top of the convenience it brings, I see no reason to switch my process... :mug:
 

Similar threads

W
False bottom height?
Replies
9
Views
941
whoaru99
W
C
Best brewing system for 5-15 gallon batches
Replies
25
Views
1K
Ninoid
Ninoid
A
What is this worth?
Replies
7
Views
618
adamc867
A
S
Going from my old, simple set up to something more "modern", opinions?
Replies
16
Views
1K
JeffersonCoastal
JeffersonCoastal
Z
Massachusetts SS Brewtech 10 gallon InfuSsion Mash Tun, Custom 22 gallon stainless insulated bottom triclamp drain mash tun
Replies
0
Views
222
zman_
Z
Williams Brewing 300

Latest posts

Back
Top