Absolute Dumb Bonehead Mistake

I brewed an all grain Foreign Extra Stout last week and fermentation quit after three days. FV temp at 67 degrees, dipped to 64 after fmt stopped then warmed back up to 68 with no activity. Wyeast Irish Ale yeast, repitched on day three with no appreciable results, still no activity.

So, you ask; what was the Dumb Bonehead Mistake?

While preparing the strike water, ProMash called for a strike temperature just over 200 degrees. Grains at 52, and nearly 30 lbs; it is a ten gallon batch.

After adding the grains, the temperature drop was not as great as the software predicted and dough in was done at 180 degrees before I could add enough water to get temps down to 155. Needless to say, most conversion took place at 180 and I am expecting a rather sweet, low alcohol stout as a result.

Glad the batch only cost me $60!!

Live and learn, I will never mash in with a strike temperature over 180 degrees!!

what was the OG and FG? I've had beers ferment out in 3 days.. had them take 2 weeks too.. if you had a healthy starter with good aeration its very possible it was simply done.

ive never done it, but you could pick up some beano or amylase and add it in. it should at least get you some more fermentables.

I am confused.

I get that you struck in at 200 and bottomed out at 180. But you say you added water to cool down to 155 yet insist that "most of the conversion took place at 180".

This stuff is not instant. In fact, at 180 it's more likely that denaturization occured rather than conversion. The only way to quantify conversion is by measuring available sugars (even tho you won't know the matrix) into the boiler.

Obviously you had fermentable sugars by way of 3 day fermentation.

If anything, the bone head mistake may be the lack of measurements here, assumed by omission.

The ONLY real way to know anything regarding fermentation is to take readings and determine what degree of attenuation you are at when fermentation has stopped. Otherwise you just don't know. 3 days of fermentation is actually pretty healthy. It could just be done.

Do you have pre and post fermentation gravity readings?

Calculated OG from ProMash was 17 Plato, yield was 14, and that was the starting gravity. This is the first time I have brewer this recipe, my own. I have added more pale malts to the recipe and wil watch my temps closer next time. I'm one week into fermentation, and do not plan to rack into secondary.

I'll take a gravity and see what it is, to be perfectly honest I've never had a beer ferment this quickly, ever.

Why did you "repitch" the yeast?

Dunerunner said:

Calculated OG from ProMash was 17 Plato, yield was 14, and that was the starting gravity. This is the first time I have brewer this recipe, my own. I have added more pale malts to the recipe and wil watch my temps closer next time. I'm one week into fermentation, and do not plan to rack into secondary.

I'll take a gravity and see what it is, to be perfectly honest I've never had a beer ferment this quickly, ever.

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soooo... starting gravity was 1.057.. let us know the FG

Just went out and squeezed between the boat and my FV to get a sample. Shot a gravity and it is at 10 Plato, 1.040. Still yeasty, and not as sweet as I would expect, but only 2.25 ABV.

57 og from 30lbs of grain to 10gal? You sure?

I would assume that you denatured most of the enzymes with your 180F mash, grab some Amylase Enzyme from the LHBS and add it to the fermenter, that should help out. Also doesn't sound like your extraction was the best.

The home brew store is a 106 mile round trip. Would cost me more in gas than the batch is worth, in fact; I could dump and rebrew for less.

Calibrated the refractometer before each reading with water. The readings are right, not good, but right.

Then again, it might be OK once another week in the FV is done and it is carbonated. Just not what I was shooting for. No one to blame but me, and I wouldn't have it any other way!!

I'd try to do a fast fermentation test with some extra yeast and a sample drawn from the batch to figure out how fermentable the beer is. At the very least if it's not that fermentable you could use it for blending with other beer...

Either way, I'm brewing again. I did repitch after day three with no appreciable results, that is 4 days ago and the gravity is still 1.040. Could throw some bread yeast into it but.....uck! I've decided to let it run the fourteen days then rack it off to a Corney and force carbonate. After I taste it I'll decide what I am going to do.

Dumb!!!

Get some AE and see if that helps

Amylase enzymes will fix, but you need to let it go for several weeks. Don't use beano.

See my experiment using AE:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/escape-stuck-fermentation-mountain-ae-rescue-212926/

Thanks for the link! I remembered some member doing this and search wouldn't let me find it!!

I'm sold! I'll make the trip after the first!! Thanks, passed!

Math sounds a little off....

Who uses math? I used ProMash calculators! An I agree, the strike temp calculator is OFF!!

So, here is what I have done. Drove 156 miles round trip to the HBS (it isn't local) and spent $2.95 on some Amylase enzyme. I sanitized a 5 gallon bucket and brewery hoses, connected to the racking arm of my conical and drew off ~4.5 gallons of wort. I mixed in gentley so as not to areate 3 tsp. of amylase enzyme, then connected to my March pump and drew from the bucket back into the FV at the racking port. I then circulated the wort in the FV from the bottom for the conical to the racking port angled at 90 degrees for 5 minutes.

Right now, enjoying a beer and waiting to see if I will have any luck.

Would have been easier to just drop some in the top.

Dunerunner said:

Calibrated the refractometer before each reading with water. The readings are right, not good, but right.

Click to expand...

Just to make sure here, you did adjust your post fermentation reading to account for the alcohol?

No, I didn't. But, I can work around that!

Dune, did you use a hydrometer at all? Refractometers are way way off once fermentation begiis.

Just went out and took a sample. Looks like 1.032..Better than 1.045!

You added AE? If so, just let it go. It might get a bit dry. Should be bubbling again soon. Make sure you let it go because the AE will do it's thing slowly, then the yeast will do its thing.

passedpawn said:

Dune, did you use a hydrometer at all? Refractometers are way way off once fermentation begiis.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I was getting at.

Thanks for the hints ........Like you guys nearly had to hit me with a 2X4!!

I really appreciate the help!!

Two days following the addition of AE, I have seen a 8 point drop in gravity from 1.032 to 1.024. :rockin:

Dunerunner said:

So, here is what I have done. Drove 156 miles round trip to the HBS (it isn't local) and spent $2.95 on some Amylase enzyme.

Click to expand...

Damn, that trip is 50 miles longer than it was in your first post!

Had to visit the brewery and bottle shop! You sound like my wife!!

Down another 4 points this evening to 1.020. I'm going to let this run another 3-5 days before I take another gravity. At this rate of attenuation, I should be down to 1.006; we'll see as I don't expect anything in brewing to be consistant or linear!

This evening, the gravity is 1.018. The beer isn't as yeasty, in fact I think this Saturday I'll rack to a corney and force carbonate. I'm sure the amylase enzyme is still active and I wonder what effect that will have on the beer drinker. The yeast have begun to floc out, can't wait for next Monday!

Many thanks to those who helped work around this issue!!

Obviously, the FG didn't get as low as 1.006, and I'm glad of that.

No affect, especially if you're putting it in a keg and chilling it. The yeast will go dormant and drop out as will the enzymes.