Brewmation: An amazing turnkey brewery (not a Brew-Magic vs B3, but with comparisons)

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We installed a hot tub a couple of years ago. I think it was actually 240v and required a pretty heavy gauge of wire and a special breaker outside. I spent over $500 for that hookup. It was done by professionals and they did a superb job. These days you may be able to get a better deal.

My whole electric installation -- including an extra 110V outlet, a single 220V outlet, weather-proof boxes for both outlets, GFI, and a shut-off at the circuit box (so I could unplug everything without any current running) -- was about $850. This included installation by a licensed local electrician who primarily works with commercial setups and was super careful with this particular installation (because we'd had him do previous work when he was still doing residential work).

Expensive -- but SP is right above: there's no way in hell I'll go back to propane. Electric is cheap, easy, and convenient.
 
I don't know about the Brewmation specifically, but I can't believe how much more enjoyable brewing is on an electric versus propane system.

I couldn't agree with you more. I brewed on a propane fired three-tier system for 3 or 4 years before buying the Brewmation. Here in NC, the humidity can get a little crazy and I found that I brewed less and less due to the heat in the garage produced by the burners. Last summer, I had to stop brewing altogether for a while due to almost passing out.

I received my Brewmation in mid-May and have already brewed 16 batches totaling 1 gallon shy of 100 gallons. Is that legal to say out loud? I could feasibly produce enough beer for a small brewpub. I just need more fermentation chamber space. With 275 pounds of grain on the way, I see no signs of slowing down anytime soon. :)

Prost.
 
I can see the draw of the electric and have toyed with the idea many times. P-J Muth is ALWAYS trying to convert my current Brutus 10 system every time we talk on the phone!

However, easy and convenient I can agree with , but cheap I cannot. I don't know about where the rest of you live but here in Ocala Florida my light bill already runs just shy of $700.00 a month. That's why I use natural gas.
 
IHowever, easy and convenient I can agree with , but cheap I cannot. I don't know about where the rest of you live but here in Ocala Florida my light bill already runs just shy of $700.00 a month. That's why I use natural gas.

I bet you live at an airport, right ?
 
OK, so I checked and New York has much higher electric prices than Florida, unless you have a special circumstance in Ocala. (You growing something down there?)

Anyhoo, in yours or my case it would be far cheaper than gas if you calculate it. If you can prove your point with math, please do- I'd like to know. From where I'm sitting it's only a fraction of the cost of gas and I pay more for power.

Average price per kWh for New York is $.19 and for Florida is $.11.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

OK, I just said the same thing like 3 times... sorry:)
 
I can see the draw of the electric and have toyed with the idea many times. P-J Muth is ALWAYS trying to convert my current Brutus 10 system every time we talk on the phone!

However, easy and convenient I can agree with , but cheap I cannot. I don't know about where the rest of you live but here in Ocala Florida my light bill already runs just shy of $700.00 a month. That's why I use natural gas.

Wow $700/month!!?? I live in suburban Atlanta in a 2 story house with a finished basement. We have three AC zones with three compressors and our bill in the hellish summer is in the mid $300s.
 
OK, so I checked and New York has much higher electric prices than Florida, unless you have a special circumstance in Ocala. (You growing something down there?)

Anyhoo, in yours or my case it would be far cheaper than gas if you calculate it. If you can prove your point with math, please do- I'd like to know. From where I'm sitting it's only a fraction of the cost of gas and I pay more for power.

Average price per kWh for New York is $.19 and for Florida is $.11.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

OK, I just said the same thing like 3 times... sorry:)


Here is a quote from an article at the following link:

http://www.ocala.com/article/20091014/ARTICLES/910141004

As anyone who buys electric from the city of Ocala's utility knows, prices exploded in September 2008, making them the highest in the state. Today, Ocala's rates are near the middle of the pack.

"Our rates have leveled," Assistant City Manager Matt Brower said.

The $0.163646 per kilowatt-hour rate, or $196.38, in September 2008 fell to $0.134526 per kwh, or $161.43, in October for 1,200 kwh of residential usage.

Rates dropped again in November to $0.130510 per kwh, or $156.61.

That rate has not changed since November.


At the very top of the article just under the heading it does read that natural gas prices are higher.

I don't have have math to support my theory, just my experience. In the summer (I have a natural gas heating system for winter) my gas bill is in the $60 range brewing an average of 2 times a cycle. That includes my hot water heater and my gas stove/oven. Both which of course are used daily.

My pots would probably only hold a 4500 watt element, so if I had 2 in my BK and one each in my HLT and MT can someone do a cost analysis? Sorry I'm a bug man not a mathematician. :p Average 60 minute mash and boil.
 
Wow $700/month!!?? I live in suburban Atlanta in a 2 story house with a finished basement. We have three AC zones with three compressors and our bill in the hellish summer is in the mid $300s.

We do have several (several) electric items that cause this. However, a case in point is that I shut down the breaker and drained our hot tub this summer and my bill went up, by about $60.00.

Another case, I had 2 daughters move out at the same time a few years back (that's 2-4 less showers a day, a load of clothes less a day, less blow drying and hair crimping or straightening, 2 less people in the house period) and my electric and water (both with same company, same bill) went ....UP.

The "math" just doesn't add up.
 
Average price per kWh for New York is $.19 and for Florida is $.11.

I don't think the cost of therms is the driving factor on which to use. I think people may choose electric over propane gas as a cost effective alternative, but when it comes to natural gas, I think your choice should be made based on convenience or how you want to brew. Is a gas hookup readily available or easily installed versus running new electric and adding breakers? Do you routinely brew outside or do you want to be inside? There are so many other factors that come into play versus just the cost of heating your brew.

For myself, I'm interested in the use of electric brewing, but I'll probably just look at using a RIMS tube for holding my mash temps and use natural gas for everything else. I'm paying $.31 per kilowatt in SoCal and there's no way that is cheaper than gas. (Yes, the beginning tiers are only $.11 per KW, but I'm in tier 5 usage which is the highest and adding any additional usage would be billed at that rate). I currently use a 3 burner natural gas brewing rig that I roll right up to the front of my garage and plug into a natural gas QD. It probably only cost me about $40 in fittings to add the QD.
 
Also, I have had them come to my house (after the aforementioned daughters moving out and bill going up episode) and everything "checked out" as "normal".

:off:
Interesting. They utility should be able to put recording voltmeters on your house service so you can chart voltage and amperage. Usually a good way to see at what time something is pulling a lot of amps. As certain equipment starts to fail they will pull more current.

Okay back on topic now
 
Hey Brewmation owners -

I'm considering buying this system, but am a little concerned about the amount of break material and hop matter that would end up in my fermenter (and worse, my plate chiller).

I see SankePankey has a little standpipe-bazooka-screen type mod to help with this.

  • Sanke, how's that working for you?
  • Anyone else done anything similar or different to filter/block break and hop matter?
  • Has anyone tried the Blichmann Hop Blocker for filtering out break/hops? It seems like it might work, if the size is right...
 
Hey Brewmation owners -

I'm considering buying this system, but am a little concerned about the amount of break material and hop matter that would end up in my fermenter (and worse, my plate chiller).

I see SankePankey has a little standpipe-bazooka-screen type mod to help with this.

  • Sanke, how's that working for you?
  • Anyone else done anything similar or different to filter/block break and hop matter?
  • Has anyone tried the Blichmann Hop Blocker for filtering out break/hops? It seems like it might work, if the size is right...

Well, what's cool about the boil kettle setup is that the drain is at the very bottom, unlike most keggle systems which rely on a side output and well implemented bazooka screen positioned to drain the entirety of the volume. In my setup, there is still a drain at the very bottom, so you will in theory drain everything. The bazooka screen is there to aid my whirlpooling.

This is not necessarily what I am experiencing just yet but I'm getting there. Without a whirlpool, the break and hop matter doesn't clog the drain enough to inhibit a gravity transfer at the end with minimal trub. With the whirlpool and a 100% pellet bill, I am getting a trickle out of the kettle from a packed cake of hop matter. In my brew this past weekend, the bazooka screen was completely covered with hop matter even at that height. So I'm thinking it needs to have some more copper wetted to give it more height but stay out of the way of the elements. I'm thinking more of like a field goal post looking thing. I don't know yet, but I'm trying to avoid the hop bag scenario.
 
Yeah, seems like whirlpooling isn't really your friend when the drain is in the center. That's kind of my concern.

Interesting, though - sounds like you're not really getting too much break into the fermenter...just clogging.

I wonder if you'd have better results if you just let it settle, instead of whirlpooling. That way the break and stuff wouldn't collect in the middle. Hopefully, it would just settle sort of evenly across the bottom of the kettle...
 
Longest Post in a row by the same person I have ever seen in a thread...I didn't read any and was hoping for a picture...However I will check out the site and if interested will be back. I Drink to you typing that long A** book in this thread...You are more dedicated than I am, And Im looking forward to reading it when IM on the Toilet...
 
Yeah, seems like whirlpooling isn't really your friend when the drain is in the center. That's kind of my concern.

Interesting, though - sounds like you're not really getting too much break into the fermenter...just clogging.

I wonder if you'd have better results if you just let it settle, instead of whirlpooling. That way the break and stuff wouldn't collect in the middle. Hopefully, it would just settle sort of evenly across the bottom of the kettle...

No, not too much break in the fermenter at all. The snot stays in the kettle. I do get enough little specs to worry about in a plate chiller without putting a filter before it (the stainless scrubby method maybe) but nothing much.
Yes, this is what I meant. Just letting it settle is acceptable for a gravity drain- and I still don't get that much trub in the fermenter.
Whirlpooling with a drain in the center would be OK if I had enough heigh to the bazooka that it wouldn't get completely covered. Work in progress.

Im looking forward to reading it when IM on the Toilet...
Don't be as impatient with your bowel movement. You'll blow an o-ring. But do let us know if that happens. And post pics please. :D
 
Hey Halucin8-

Would you mind sharing your chilling routine with us? I see you use a plate chiller mounted below the boil kettle. I'm assuming you gravity drain thru the plate chiller and use the HLT recirc to circulate ice water. Is that right?

I'm not happy with my chilling routine just yet (immersion chiller - it's just too small for 15 gal - takes like 45 mins) and was thinking of:

1) ...going the plate chiller route and skip the whirlpool. Cleaning out the plate chiller with a HLT recirc of Oxy is probably very easy, convenient. Maybe even more convenient than cleaning off an immersion chiller every time. This way you don't leave out the break material though.

2) ...doing a whirlpool thru the plate chiller, sending it back into the kettle to chill the whole volume fast and act as a self-filter for trub. Wouldn't have to get the "Beef-Cake" plate chiller, could go a little smaller. Chilling the whole thing down that fast would be probably as good as using a hop-back.

3) ...doing either and using my 50' IC for a prechiller. Thing is, I want to have hot water in the HLT for clean-up, not ice-water. So was thinking of using tap and putting my IC in a pot with ice-water for a pre-chiller.


I have yet to get serious hop character because my chilling is too long.




{And... hey everyone- sorry for the infini-posts.:eek:}
 
Hey Halucin8-

Would you mind sharing your chilling routine with us? I see you use a plate chiller mounted below the boil kettle. I'm assuming you gravity drain thru the plate chiller and use the HLT recirc to circulate ice water. Is that right?


I was gravity feeding my plate chiller and using my well water to chill with and the output going into the pool (no waste). I could usually get the temp down to around 78 using that method. I was using hop bags at the time. I wanted to get away from using the bags, so I tried not using them and the chiller clogged almost instantly. What a pain in the ass that was. You definitely have to use hop bags if you're using a plate chiller. I was looking at designing some sort of "hopstopper" using a 9" false bottom in the kettle with some stainless mesh wrapped around it.

The last time I brewed, I used my immersion chiller with ice water in the HLT as the system was designed. It worked pretty well, so I will try this method a few more times and see what happens. If unsuccessful with the immersion, I will probably switch to a Chilzilla chiller which has a much larger size flow diameter and would be less susceptible to hop debris or design the above mentioned hopstopper.

I personally don't worry about trub and hops in the fermenter. Not bragging or anything, but I've won ribbons in the only three competitions I've entered including an NHBC Gold Medal, so I must be doing something right. I did notice less gunk in the fermenter when I immersion chilled on my last session. I think a lot of the mess settles to the bottom of the kettle and since the kettle has a nice, large, mostly flat bottom, it doesn't make it into the fermenter.

As far as having hot water in the HLT to clean with, just heat it up. I have a hot water hose in my brewing area to clean with, so this is not an issue for me.

Did I cover everything? I have a bit of a buzz!! :drunk:

Prost.
 
Cool.:p

I was looking at designing some sort of "hopstopper" using a 9" false bottom in the kettle with some stainless mesh wrapped around it.

Here is the material I bought - and a pic of one:

B001CTV5DE 1 Stainless Steel Type 304 Mesh #14 X 14 .025" Wire Diameter 12" x 12"
$10.41

B00137UI9C 1 Stainless Steel 316L Perforated Sheet, ASTM-A-176-99, Staggered 1/2" Round Perfs, 11/16" Center Spacing, 0.0595" Thick, 12" Width, 12" Length
$13.02

The 1/2" hole material is the chiller table and the mesh is what I'm trying to make into a hop stopper. It's a wee bit more hefty/rigid than the bazooka screen material but fairly similar.

Smallparts.com (owned by Amazon). Nice source for small quantities of things (besides McMaster ...... who just rocks my world!). The pic is of the chiller setup which I'm still not getting the times I want out of. But the "Chiller Table" is awesome and that piece of metal is HD enough to hold a 2 Gallon starter in a pot with the chiller.

The last time I brewed, I used my immersion chiller with ice water in the HLT as the system was designed. It worked pretty well, so I will try this method a few more times and see what happens. If unsuccessful with the immersion, I will probably switch to a Chilzilla chiller which has a much larger size flow diameter and would be less susceptible to hop debris or design the above mentioned hopstopper.

My chiller is a Stainless 50' coil of 3/8". It works fine in the beginning, but getting it down from 140 degrees is painful. I've tried using the ice method, but I guess I didn't have enough. Had six 1 quart blocks and they all melted before I was down to pitching temp. And, I sent the first runnings of hot water down the drain, and recirced after about 170 degree wort temp. Maybe that's not the best method, but I'd stirred enough.

As far as having hot water in the HLT to clean with, just heat it up.

That takes time.... Still workin on that 4.5 hr brew day like I mentioned in the first place. I have about 8 hours to shave off of my original time estimate.:fro:

pastedGraphic.jpg
 
That is really a question for the company. I'd direct you to the brewmation website. I really don't know all the specifics. I do know that based on mine and others feedback, certain things were done, such as that now the system is as 100% stainless as it can be, whereas my unit had a bunch of brass fittings on it. There are still a couple fittings that are FDA plated brass, which don't come in stainless, that are great and I wouldn't choose to replace them.

But, as I'm not a spokesman for the company, I can't say. Development of this system goes on and more parts = more money. Other than that, you'll have to ask brewmation. My assertion that it was at the end of it's R&D phase was a load of whooey- (as were a few other things I said.) It never ends. I'm going to do a 1 year w/ my brewmation followup to this review in a few mos, but in the mean time, here's a video that I (obviously) shot myself:



I'm sure you can tell I have a few more aesthetic tasks to accomplish but she's almost done. The beer turned out fantasmic. It's Yooper's Hoppy Amber, sort of like a Lagunitas type hoppy brown (uggh, have such hard water). That's 40 Lb of grain and 10 gal water in the brewmation (a bit of a thick mash) and that's about as much as I'd want to do. Having a pump on every tun makes for a 100% Clean in place event which I think is just great. I flush the break down the sink- (too tired to video that!).
 
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Cool thanks! The control panel has definitely been upgraded it looks like. The other big question I have is are 5 gallon batches and issue on this setup?
 
I believe the float switch on the boil kettle is around like 3 gallons. I think 5 gals is pushing it as you won't have much liquid above the heating elements. I don't for see ever wanting to do a batch that size as I'm staunchly not a part of the carboy crowd, I ferment in 15 gal stainless vessels (sanke & corny).

Do my starters in a bayoo classic on the stove so I don't have to break out the entire brewery for boiling DME. That immersion chiller in the post above has been retired to chilling in my starter pot.

I'm working on somewhere around 10 mins chill time with the recirculating plate, but that's just per my calcs not experience yet. In that brew session, I put 1/2 the pellets in the bag, and half outside of it (22 oz total) to see if my tangential bazooka screen worked well. Well, I had a clogging problem, so next time I'm going to put them all in the bag (which I got a giant silicone o-ring for as a weight so the bag sinks to the bottom). I also got a screen gasket for right after the butterfly valve.

Oh, if you are referring to the 'control panel' being upgraded, I believe you may be confusing the semi-auto system and the full auto cause the control panel hasn't changed for the full. The semi- auto is really as automated as most 'automated' systems and the control panel has LOVE controllers married to the power supply. The Full auto is a step above that and you program in your temps and times and it guides you thru with boil alarms, etc... New software has a mash out step, fixed a few glitches and is more fool proof. I'm still waiting on my step mash and hop alarm timers upgrade that I mentioned and hope that is still possible in the code.
 
I would appreciate hearing from any of you guys who did a group buy on this Brewmation setup. By now, you should have been able to run about 13,000 brew sessions through that automated device :)

I'm in the market for a system, and although a build sounds very fun, I'm not really in a position to spend the amount of time required to do my own thing.

I thought I would do a little update on my Brewmation use. I didn't brew for about 8 months. Our second child was born and the space I utilized for my Brewmation indoors wasn't ideal (too small and ventilation poor). So I waited till spring and build a mobile stand and had a new 220V line run ($160 installed).

I have brewed another all grain starter and two batches since. Each brew has been more fun. I was very impatient when I first got the brewmation and brewed with not much planning - which just makes for a stressful brewday. Hobbies aren't supposed to be stressful. I now thouroughly plan my brew days and prepare before my brew day.

So, the system has been going good. I had an issue with my MT heater element creating a short due to moisture. Contacted Kevin and learned that he has modified the false bottom in the MT to protect better against moisture. I also requested to have him make me another false bottom that I planned to install in the kettle to support my IC and also act as a filter. Kevin offered to provide me with the new MT false bottom with heater element for the cost of only the heater element and I would use the existing MT false bottom for my kettle build.

I am finding my effieciences to be in the 80+ range. I think a lot has to do with the sparge rate. The control of the system is great and I don't miss the noise/heat of propane. I also love not having to lift/move water around (I know this is not unique to the brewmation).

As far as hot/cold break - for me I get a great chill using a 50 ft 5/8 copper IC. I am on a well and my water is in the high 50's to low 60's. I also whirlpool. I have done lagers recently and chill to about 60's. It takes about 30 min - which I am working on shortening. But I get a huge cold break and have no problem gravity feeding my fermentation buckets.

I plan to take some picks/video soon. It is nice to come back to this thread to see how others have modified their brewmation.
 
The idea of electric brewing is very attractive to me, and for a number of reasons. $5600 is not one of them. The notion of DIY is right out, apart from the fact that so may people who build their own appear to end up spending significantly more than they anticipated by the time their rig is built.

The only thing on the electric brewing horizon that has any possibilities for me is the Speidels Braumeister, which still comes in at about $3200 for the 10 gal. version.
 
The idea of electric brewing is very attractive to me, and for a number of reasons. $5600 is not one of them. The notion of DIY is right out, apart from the fact that so may people who build their own appear to end up spending significantly more than they anticipated by the time their rig is built.

The only thing on the electric brewing horizon that has any possibilities for me is the Speidels Braumeister, which still comes in at about $3200 for the 10 gal. version.

Price is always a consideration. The Brewmation was the right system for the right price for me. I do like doing a little DIY but didn't want to spend money modifying my system again and again and end up wishing I bought a complete system. I hadn't initially considered an electric brewery, it was the level of automation that initially attracted me. Having gone electric is my favorite part. My last brew session was all "manual" and I even did a decoction. It was a full fun brew day. My back was not sore from lifting, in didn't have to deal with the roar of a propane burner. I didn't have to connect multiple hose lines to move liquid around and I had complete control over my temps. That is very satisfying.

The Braumeister looks like a compact sleek system. Sort of an electric brew in a bag that one can easily do in a kitchen. Its size/capacity will limit some brews (will have to reduce batch size when going high gravity).
 
The only thing on the electric brewing horizon that has any possibilities for me is the Speidels Braumeister, which still comes in at about $3200 for the 10 gal. version.

I got my entire electric system for around $2200 and that's all stainless, if you went plastic hlt and mashtun, it's around $1400, that's ready to brew with.


_
 
The only thing on the electric brewing horizon that has any possibilities for me is the Speidels Braumeister, which still comes in at about $3200 for the 10 gal. version.

Highgravity brewing has a fantastic eHERMS 220V system that you can piece together piece-by-piece. I ended up getting the system with Blichmann 15gal kettles for around $2000. There's a variety of options, so it's easily customized. I've been using it for two years now, and it works great. No issues whatsoever.
 
Highgravity brewing has a fantastic eHERMS 220V system that you can piece together piece-by-piece. I ended up getting the system with Blichmann 15gal kettles for around $2000. There's a variety of options, so it's easily customized. I've been using it for two years now, and it works great. No issues whatsoever.

That's the one.:D


_
 
That's the one.:D


_

how accurately can you hit and hold your mash temps with this system? Im in the process of making the jump to electric. I would really rather go with a RIMS system than a HERMS but I dont have the electrical know how to build one.
 
how accurately can you hit and hold your mash temps with this system? Im in the process of making the jump to electric. I would really rather go with a RIMS system than a HERMS but I dont have the electrical know how to build one.

It keeps it within one degree +\-.
 
good to hear. do you use this same system too?

Yup. I have had it for over a yr. I love the automation. The designer of the system is constantly improving the software and always available for questions/concerns. I am very happy with my purchase.
 
Yup. I have had it for over a yr. I love the automation. The designer of the system is constantly improving the software and always available for questions/concerns. I am very happy with my purchase.

cool. thanks for the feedback. I might be pulling the trigger on this in the next few weeks.
 
Yes and FYI now step mashing is in the software. Manual step mashing. Meaning you program in your total mash time and press the up button during the mash to your liking. It works great. I still haven't tested it re: speeds from one temp to another (like 122 to 152). I sometimes use a herms assist coil in the HLT in conjunction with the mash pump to do faster steps than the element alone can handle (i.e. the mash out step, which you can program in the schedule)- but it can handle quite a bit alone. It's an ULWD element though, unlike the LWDs in the HLT and BK (AFAIK). Is that enough acronyms?

I think I might even rather do a manual mash than program all the mash steps in in the beginning which might get tedious. The only thing I don't have now in the software that I originally wanted was hop addition alarms. Just a simple beeb beeb beeb at preprogrammed times would be great so I don't have to set a different timer or stand there and watch the countdown on the control box. Besides that, the software is real solid now and can't think of anything more that I want added.

It's a good lesson on the why's and what for's of automation and that's the funnest part to figure that stuff out. I always get a kick out of leaving the brewery to do it's thing after mash in and then coming back a couple hours later when the boil alarm is indicating for me to watch for a boil over.
 
Yup. I have had it for over a yr. I love the automation. The designer of the system is constantly improving the software and always available for questions/concerns. I am very happy with my purchase.

wait a second, are you referring to the brewmation system or the highgravitybrew.com system? I was asking about the highgravity systyem.
 
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