Scotch/scottish brewing advice.

I'm planning a parti-gyle brew and am going for a wee heavy, export, and light ales. Here's the grain bill:


British Pale 36 pounds
Carapils 1 pound
Crystal 1 pound
Roast Barley 1 pound
Choc. Malt 1 pound
Black Patent 1 pound

East Kent Goldings Hops 4.5 ounces
WYeast 1728 Scottish Ale 1 smack pack

This gives three 5 gallon batches
2 ounces hops in the first beer (beginning of the boil)
1.5 in the second
1 in the third.

I'm planning on doing a 5 gallon batch first to multiply the yeast up so I won't be under-pitching (I'll basically split the yeast cake 3 ways).

What I want to know is:
1. any advice on the recipe?
2. I understand that Scots ferment at lower temps and therefore avoid esters. How crucial is this?
3. What would you brew for the 5 gallon starter?

3. English mild? Ordinary bitter? Scottish 60 shilling?

Scotch Ales usually mash at a higher temp, up 'round 154 or so, for the sweetness... or are you talking 'bout fermentation temps?

Yes, talking about fermentation temps. Getting mash temp high is not a problem.

Ah, gotcha. Can't comment 'bout that, as we've always fermented at somewhat low temps (62-65F)... pretty much the only option we have available to us based on climate and HVAC setup!

I've found 1728 is best fermenting in the 55-60F range to get a clean flavor with slight smoky notes. Also, the most important factor in my experience with scottish ales is the boiling down of a portion of the wort to promote Maillard reations which give a great toasty caramel flavor.

As for the recipe, you have way more roasted malt in there than I like in a scottish ale, if that's what you're going for that's fine but I'd reduce it to 2-3% of the bill if any. If you boil down the wort I would leave the crystal and carapils out entirely or at least reduce it.

nathanthn said:

boiling down of a portion of the wort to promote Maillard reations which give a great toasty caramel flavor.

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Agree. Remember, the tradition of brewing scottish ales started before metal kettles were invented. Wooden casks were filled with wort and granite stones were heated up in a fire and placed into the wort to acheive a boil. The last Scottish I did I boiled down the final sparge and got a light smoky flavor. Next time I'm going to use the first runnings instead!!!!!!

I don't have the recipe in front of me right now, but the last time I did a 70/- it had a very simple grain bill and to get the caramel color all I did was boil about 1.5 gallons of the first runnings down to about half that on my stove top while I sparged the rest of the mash. Had about 20 minutes left in the boil then added the reduced first runnings back into the BK.

That looks like a stout grainbill, not Scotch/Scottish ale. I'd drop the Chocolate and Patent, and reduce the RB to maybe 8-12oz. What color is your crystal? It's probably not necessary, either, though it may not hurt anything.

I've had good luck using 1728 at 55-60 ambient temps when making Scottish ales. This yeast does just fine at those temps. It helps to under-aerate and pitch a big amount of yeast, but that's probably not critical.

GuldTuborg said:

That looks like a stout grainbill, not Scotch/Scottish ale. I'd drop the Chocolate and Patent, and reduce the RB to maybe 8-12oz. What color is your crystal? It's probably not necessary, either, though it may not hurt anything.

I've had good luck using 1728 at 55-60 ambient temps when making Scottish ales. This yeast does just fine at those temps. It helps to under-aerate and pitch a big amount of yeast, but that's probably not critical.

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I plan to get a Strong Scotch, Export and Light Scottish out of it (15 gallons). Are you sure it's low for a parti-gyle recipe?

I was adding the chocolate and patent to get the color, but I think I'll drop them significantly--especially since others have encouraged caramelization to get color (I'll boil hard).

bioguy said:

I plan to get a Strong Scotch, Export and Light Scottish out of it (15 gallons). Are you sure it's low for a parti-gyle recipe?

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Am I sure what's low? Sorry, I don't follow what you're asking.

Oops, I meant to say too heavy for a parti-gyle recipe. You said it looked like a grainbill for a stout.

Gotcha. That makes a lot more sense.

I'd still say yes. When I make a Scotch ale, I model it after what appears in the book by Noonan, which is basically enough good malt to get to the gravity I want (usually in the neighborhood of 1.1) and then 4oz of dark roast barley. Everything else comes from a heavy boil, concentration of the first runnings, etc. I've been known to throw in a half pound of amber malt if I feel my base malt is a bit bland, but that's not necessary with a good base malt.

I'm of the mind that more than 4-6oz of RB in a Scotch ale is going to come through as too roasty. It might be good, but it's not going to taste like other Scotch ales. Again, it's all good as long as you know what to expect. If you're concerned about the contributions of a small amount of RB falling off as you sparge for the smaller beers, consider capping the mash before them. That is, mash with your recipe and a smallish amount of RB, run off for the Scotch ale, and then before you sparge for the Export, add a bit more RB to the tun. That way you don't overdo it the first time around, yet don't have to worry about the roast character falling off too much as you progress. Take that with a grain of salt, as I do not use this type of patigyle process at all. It's just something I'm throwing out for your consideration.

I agree with GuldTuborg, I would start with enough Marris Otter or Golden Promise with 1-2% RB for the first beer (boil the first gallon down to about a pint) then you could add some crystal for the second beer and some chocolate for the third beer. That way you could get three completely different beers from one mash