I'm tossing it down the drain!

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ayrton

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Recipe is here.

I tried every damned thing I could think of with this batch. It just will NOT ferment correctly. It refuses to drop below 1.036 or so. I even re-pitched another vial of a different type of yeast, and STILL I have nothing. Temperature has been between 65 - 70 the entire time (see below for a possible exception). I've never had a beer behave so strangely! I do have several ideas that might account for this stuck-in-the-mud fermentation:

1) I picked the hops in September from my aunt-in-law's vines. She uses some sort of insecticide, but I made sure to rinse them before drying them and then sticking them in the freezer until late December. Not sure if that could account for anything or not. The lupulins were still bright yellow and the hops smelled great during the boil, though, so I can't tell.

2) The water I used this time was from my tap, but it was run through a Brita filter. The water in my town is pretty heavily chlorinated, and while my filter is supposed to remove that, it may have done so insufficiently. This one seems unlikely, though, because I've had good batches using my water in the past.

3) The temperature in my kitchen is always between 65 and 70 degrees, but I can't tell if it's a little cooler at the floor level. I put the carboy in a closet for a couple days and nothing happened. Still, though, other batches have always been fine, so why should this one be any different?

At any rate, it's going to be a dark, swirling whirlpool in my sink tonight. Die, you evil batch of unfermentable goop. :mad:
 
R.I.P., Evil Goop.

What was your OG? Have you actually tried some of it? I've had brews finish out high, but still taste damned good.

None of the factors you mention should inhibit fermentation. One thing, though: did you aerate your wort properly? And do you know how old the yeast was? Did your starter have any actual activity?
 
After it cooled to 70 degrees with my chiller, I put the lid on and shook the begeezus out of it for a few minutes, as per usual. I suppose it's possible it wasn't enough for some reason. Clearly *something* went wrong, so I can't deny any ideas.
 
Evan! said:
R.I.P., Evil Goop.

What was your OG? Have you actually tried some of it? I've had brews finish out high, but still taste damned good.

None of the factors you mention should inhibit fermentation. One thing, though: did you aerate your wort properly? And do you know how old the yeast was? Did your starter have any actual activity?

O.G. was 1.062. It does taste OK, but shoot...that's like 3% ABV. Not that I go for target gravity alone, but I do like my beers to have *some* alcohol.
 
The insecticide kind of scares me, I'm not sure if people who grow hops commonly use anything. I'd think making an aeration system - either the aquarium pump setup that Evan uses, or the oxygenation system that I just bought - the next upgrade to your setup.

How long has it been since you brewed the batch? Are you sure that the closet is warm? Last-gasp measure might be to leave it somewhere that you KNOW is warm, toss in a packet of dry yeast, wrap it in some blankets, and see if it restarts.
 
This could be totally off-base and useless, but my understanding was that you're supposed to keep the wort above 70ºF until fermentation begins in earnest, then move it to a cooler location to get it to your desired fermentation temp, say 65ºF or whatever. I thought keeping it cooler than that early on could stunt the yeast significantly. That could also account for why pitching a second vial didn't help; your temps were too cool then as well. It might not actually make that much difference, but I thought I'd throw it out there as a possibility.
 
Out of curiosity, was it Laaglander DME that you used or something different?

If it was Laaglander, there is a good chance that you're as good as you're going to get. It has a relatively low fermentation rate and leaves a lot of sugars behind.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Yeast starter?

Yup. Active as heck before I pitched it, too.

How long has it been since you brewed the batch? Are you sure that the closet is warm? Last-gasp measure might be to leave it somewhere that you KNOW is warm, toss in a packet of dry yeast, wrap it in some blankets, and see if it restarts.

I brewed it two weeks ago yesterday. I actually placed it flush against the heater in the kitchen for the last couple days, and nada. I've given this beer more chances than it deserves. I *hate* the thought of watching $40 and four hours' worth of work going down the tubes, but I think it's just that time.

Someone play taps for me.
 
MriswitH said:
Out of curiosity, was it Laaglander DME that you used or something different?

If it was Laaglander, there is a good chance that you're as good as you're going to get. It has a relatively low fermentation rate and leaves a lot of sugars behind.

It was, actually! Well, dammit. I wish I'd known that before. I used 5.5 lbs of the stuff!
 
From a homebrew shop site:

The least fermentable of the dry malts that we carry. We do not recommend using 100% Laaglander dry malt in the same recipe. Use 10-20% of recipe to add body and malty sweetness to Bocks, Helles, etc...

D'oh! :drunk:
 
Well, that makes it a difficult decision...

One option would be to put this batch in secondary, button it up good and tight for a month, while you brew something that was similar, but specifically dry. Maybe use some adjuncts and a yeast with a real high attenuation. Then, blend the batches.
 
the_bird said:
Well, that makes it a difficult decision...

One option would be to put this batch in secondary, button it up good and tight for a month, while you brew something that was similar, but specifically dry. Maybe use some adjuncts and a yeast with a real high attenuation. Then, blend the batches.

This is a good idea. I was thinking of boiling up some additional stuff and just pitching it in there, but your idea is better because I can effectively cut the residual sugar down even more.

Ok, that's it: I'm buying a membership.
 
ayrton said:
It was, actually! Well, dammit. I wish I'd known that before. I used 5.5 lbs of the stuff!

I did the same thing as you did and went through the same frustrations, so trust me when I say that I can relate. In my case, I had used honey so it did bulk up my ABV but it is still rather sweet because of the high FG. Some people have said something about using Beano to help, but I don't know if that would help in the given situation or not.

In any case, it still is beer, albeit a little bit sweeter than preferred. I would hate to see you waste the time/effort/money by just dumping it rather then drinking it. We live and we learn. ;)
 
And the board saved you from committing the most mortal of sins!!!
No beer should ever be thrown away! Even if it is contaminated, it can be distilled and used to frost your birthday cake!

*Note: coors, bud, pbr, et al are not beer so they are safe to throw away and it actually leaves less work for God to do :D
 
MriswitH said:
I did the same thing as you did and went through the same frustrations, so trust me when I say that I can relate. In my case, I had used honey so it did bulk up my ABV but it is still rather sweet because of the high FG. Some people have said something about using Beano to help, but I don't know if that would help in the given situation or not.

In any case, it still is beer, albeit a little bit sweeter than preferred. I would hate to see you waste the time/effort/money by just dumping it rather then drinking it. We live and we learn. ;)

Thanks a ton for picking up on that. If I had listed it correctly in the recipe, I'm sure it wouldn't have been such a pain for everyone.

Thanks all!
 
Sorry to hear it Ayrton,

But did I miss something. You said the beer tastes fine? You used ME that doesn't fully ferment out? It's about 4% alcohol?

Sounds like a good session beer. Unless it's got some obvious off flavors and/or infections, you don't have a problem there! It may not be exactly what you were shooting for, but it does sound like you've got beer! Keg it or bottle it and enjoy!:mug:
 
Orpheus said:
Sorry to hear it Ayrton,

But did I miss something. You said the beer tastes fine? You used ME that doesn't fully ferment out? It's about 4% alcohol?

Sounds like a good session beer. Unless it's got some obvious off flavors and/or infections, you don't have a problem there! It may not be exactly what you were shooting for, but it does sound like you've got beer! Keg it or bottle it and enjoy!:mug:

What's the ABV formula again? I've always used (OG - FG) / 8. Based on that formula, it's about 3.25% at the moment. Anyone have a formula that would allow me to leave the beer alone? ;)
 
I would really think about trying some beano. My first beer was stuck at 1.026 (due to a combination of bad extract like you, not aerating enough, underpitching, fermenting at too low a temp) and I added 3 crushed up beano tablets, started fermenting again nicely and got down to 1.011 after a couple weeks. I took the tablets and put them in a ziplock bag, mashed them up with a butter knife, and dumped them in the fermenter. The beano will help break down all those unfermentables from the extract and let your yeasties use them...give it a shot and see what happens, the beer I ended up with is actually great now!
 
Interesting idea, thanks! I'll have to check out the Beano. Is that its intended function? I've heard the brand before.

Edit: Ah, it's for food digestion. I see CVS carries it. Now I have three or four options to consider!
 
ayrton said:
Interesting idea, thanks! I'll have to check out the Beano. Is that its intended function? I've heard the brand before.

Its intended use is to break down undermentable sugars in your stomach (like those from beans...) so the bacteria in your gut won't be able to get to them and make you gassy...I am pretty sure it is just alpha-amylase in a pill form (which is pretty much the same enzyme naturally in malted barley that gets used is the mashing process) to break down starches and other long chain sugars into short chain, fermentable sugars that yeast can handle.

It is also available in a liquid form which may be easier to use than the pills...my Walgreen only had the pills, beware, it is pretty expensive, maybe like $12 a bottle IIRC.
 
ayrton said:
Thanks a ton for picking up on that. If I had listed it correctly in the recipe, I'm sure it wouldn't have been such a pain for everyone.

Thanks all!

No problemo, bud.

ayrton said:
What's the ABV formula again? I've always used (OG - FG) / 8. Based on that formula, it's about 3.25% at the moment. Anyone have a formula that would allow me to leave the beer alone?

(OG-FG)*131

ayrton said:
Interesting idea, thanks! I'll have to check out the Beano. Is that its intended function? I've heard the brand before.

Edit: Ah, it's for food digestion. I see CVS carries it. Now I have three or four options to consider!

Just be careful if you do decide to go with the Beano route. I've read that it can be potentially disasterous (see: bottle bombs) if you don't keep a good eye on it as far as monitoring complete fermentation.
 
ayrton said:
What's the ABV formula again? I've always used (OG - FG) / 8. Based on that formula, it's about 3.25% at the moment. Anyone have a formula that would allow me to leave the beer alone? ;)

I use the simple formula >1 = beer! Sometimes I'm not in the mood for dizzy city, but I'm always in the mood for beer...
 
MriswitH said:
Just be careful if you do decide to go with the Beano route. I've read that it can be potentially disasterous (see: bottle bombs) if you don't keep a good eye on it as far as monitoring complete fermentation.

Mine has been in bottles 3 weeks at ~65*F and no problems, they carbonated nicely with the standard amount of corn sugar, no bombs. I think that as long as you wait until fermentation is totally done (SG steady for about a week) then you are fine, all the corn sugar is fermentable so beano should have no effect, that and the enzymes in beano will not remain active very long in solution, its simple biochemistry, physical chemistry, and thermodynamics.:mug:
 
Wish I found out about the Beano trick earlier. I've had trouble with bad extract before. Sounds like this really does the trick. Nice info!
 
grnich said:
Wish I found out about the Beano trick earlier. I've had trouble with bad extract before. Sounds like this really does the trick. Nice info!

Serendipity is a nice thing. I was just sitting here wondering how to get my APA which is sitting at 1026 after a week, down a little further. I too used the laaglanders, but only as about 30% of the mix.

I happen to own a bottle of beano (my wife bought it for me...go figure). So now I am going to crush two up and into the primary it goes.

I'll monitor changes and let you know what happens. I guess I can add a week to the process.
 
Tried the Beano thing a few weeks back, and didn't have good results with it. It really dried out the taste of my beer, leaving it with more of a dry, wine like taste. (It went down the drain) I went in at the high end with four tablets. If anyone does choose to go this route, I would recommend starting with only one tablet and going from there.

With four tablets, it took about three weeks for fermentation to stop.
 
McKBrew said:
Tried the Beano thing a few weeks back, and didn't have good results with it. It really dried out the taste of my beer, leaving it with more of a dry, wine like taste. (It went down the drain) I went in at the high end with four tablets. If anyone does choose to go this route, I would recommend starting with only one tablet and going from there.

With four tablets, it took about three weeks for fermentation to stop.

DOH!!!

Now you tell me. I just walked back upstairs from dumping in my 3 tabs of beano. Oh well. Can't do anything now except cross my fingers. I might have used about 40% laaglanders in this brew so maybe that tough dextrin won't be converted and I'll get an okay balance. I'm just looking to get from 1026 down to about 1015 or so.
 
I definately wish you better luck. I was stuck at 1.021 and after three weeks on the beano I think it ended at 1.012. It probably depends on style of the beer, etc... as to how it will end up (Mine was a hefeweizen). Everything might be just fine.
 
I cant get any of my brews to drop below 1.020, will more yeast hurt it? I don't want to roon it. Or would just a good stir from the bottom do it?
 
I just bottled a batch that had been in the 2ndary for 10 days and it either stuck at 1.026 or that is all the lower it will go. I bottled it today. The OG was 1.069 and the FG was 1.026. Does it sound like it ran out of gas or what. It is a stout and the yeast I proofed never got as active as I had expected. The fermentations was pretty active for a few days and pretty active in the 2ndary but dead for the past 10 days.

What are your thoughts?

Tim
 
You guys are worrying too much.;)

1.069 to 1.026 sounds pretty done to me. If it doesn't drop below 1.026 over three consecutive days, your beer is done. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that FG, and your beer sounds like it'll be delicious!

OBX said:
I just bottled a batch that had been in the 2ndary for 10 days and it either stuck at 1.026 or that is all the lower it will go. I bottled it today. The OG was 1.069 and the FG was 1.026. Does it sound like it ran out of gas or what. It is a stout and the yeast I proofed never got as active as I had expected. The fermentations was pretty active for a few days and pretty active in the 2ndary but dead for the past 10 days.

What are your thoughts?

Tim
 
Call me crazy but I brew for taste, not ABV. Why throw it out if it tastes good. Bottle it up, it will make a good beer for a long hot summer day when you have nothing better to do than mow the lawn and drink beer.
 
:ban:I hope you are correct because it did taste great. I was wondering if it would carbonate if the yeast had all pooped out - I will know in a week when I try one out. The recipe added maltodextrine which I have never used before. Is this a fermentable sugar? Could using it raise the FG?

Thanks for the advice!:mug:

Tim


Orpheus said:
You guys are worrying too much.;)

1.069 to 1.026 sounds pretty done to me. If it doesn't drop below 1.026 over three consecutive days, your beer is done. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that FG, and your beer sounds like it'll be delicious!
 

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