He's a wonderful player that saved our buts on a number of key occasions.
Looking forward to USA V BRA!!
Looking forward to USA V BRA!!
The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread
- Thread starter Reno_eNVy
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HoppyDaze
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Valencia's impressions of MLS Soccer Juan Carcedo
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Reno_eNVy
Well-Known Member
Thanks for telling us what we're already well aware of, Carcedo! 
Last I checked MLS now has higher attendance averages than most leagues around the world, and I'm pretty sure that includes Serie A.
Last I checked MLS now has higher attendance averages than most leagues around the world, and I'm pretty sure that includes Serie A.
Obviously not the best showing, but I didn't think the guys looked as bad as the 4-1 scoreline would lead one to believe. There were clear holes in the defense - a long-standing defect on the USMNT - but there were good scoring opportunities as well. A good reality check that we've done well lately, but we're still not in that class yet.
Reno_eNVy said:Thanks for telling us what we're already well aware of, Carcedo!
Last I checked MLS now has higher attendance averages than most leagues around the world, and I'm pretty sure that includes Serie A.
Here in Kansas City, the owners of Sporting Kansas City have done everything right. Incredible new 19,000 seat stadium (recently named best in the world), awesome fan experience, locally televised games. It course it helps they've done so well the last 12 months, but having owners that are willing to put their money where their mouth is has made a BIG impact for MLS here. Games are sold out the rest of the year already.
HoppyDaze
Well-Known Member
Too bad our lazy youth will never put in enough time to become a world class players. This is regardless of popularity...
Reno_eNVy said:Thanks for telling us what we're already well aware of, Carcedo!
Last I checked MLS now has higher attendance averages than most leagues around the world, and I'm pretty sure that includes Serie A.
The average attendance for Seria A is a bit over 23,000, MLS is just over 17,000.
Hate to just jump in without reading all 57 pages, but I saw this and had to make a comment.
aygov
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aygov
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MLS avg attendance is up so far this year to 18,590 unoffically. We may not be above Serie A but we're improving!
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/usa.1/major-league-soccer?cc=5901
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Reno_eNVy
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The improvement in the last few years can definitely be attributed to smart business moves from both the league and individual franchises. Seattle and Portland have yet to not sell-out a match (thanks to a good soccer culture and downtown locales) with Seattle constantly upping the attendance cap (OPEN THE TOP UP! I think they could consistantly fill the 64k+ seats.) Not only that but Montreal have been packing Stade Olympique which means that when they finally open Stade Saputo they will get constant sell-outs of 22k IIRC.
Not only that, but like edroberts said, SKC have done a tremendous job. The renaming confused some people but I find it very appropriate and a nice move away from the Wizard of Oz theme. The stadium is a shining beacon of what American soccer can be. And I don't know how the marketing team was able to go from 9-10k per match to non-stop 19k sell-outs, but hats off to them. (Sold out the rest of the season? Wow..... is the stadium fit for expansion?)
Not only that, but like edroberts said, SKC have done a tremendous job. The renaming confused some people but I find it very appropriate and a nice move away from the Wizard of Oz theme. The stadium is a shining beacon of what American soccer can be. And I don't know how the marketing team was able to go from 9-10k per match to non-stop 19k sell-outs, but hats off to them. (Sold out the rest of the season? Wow..... is the stadium fit for expansion?)
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
Seattle has a strong marketing plan in place. It is the reason there's 32,000 season ticket holders and sellouts for everygame. They learned from their USL years that too many available seats means lower attendence, not higher.
Demand is high because the possibility of not getting a seat exists. You can't decide on game day to walk up and purchase, soooo people complain, but they buy tickets ahead of time. This is great marketing, if 90% of your available seats are already filled before the first game kicks off, that's good business.
They've opened it all up for internationals and this year for rivalry games, but don't look at them opening the entire 68,000 seats until they get a 61,000 season ticket commitment. If they win some more, it could be possible. The old Sounders used to sell out the kingdome for games and were quite strong.
The USL sounders were a top notch team too. I worked with them for many years, both with youth soccer and business. But they had too many open seats so people could wait until the last hour or so to decide to come to watch. I think the front office took that to heart.
Demand is high because the possibility of not getting a seat exists. You can't decide on game day to walk up and purchase, soooo people complain, but they buy tickets ahead of time. This is great marketing, if 90% of your available seats are already filled before the first game kicks off, that's good business.
They've opened it all up for internationals and this year for rivalry games, but don't look at them opening the entire 68,000 seats until they get a 61,000 season ticket commitment. If they win some more, it could be possible. The old Sounders used to sell out the kingdome for games and were quite strong.
The USL sounders were a top notch team too. I worked with them for many years, both with youth soccer and business. But they had too many open seats so people could wait until the last hour or so to decide to come to watch. I think the front office took that to heart.
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Reno_eNVy
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lgilmore
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Thanks I guess.
Going to be in your area (well Missouri) in July trying to figure out how to catch the game against Houston.
Joker said:
There is a local ticket broker I've used that always seems to have good-priced tickets for things... Tickets For Less in Overland Park, KS. Might be your best chance. They have a website but I can't remember what it is attm. Ticketsforless.Com or something like that.
Sweet!!
mrgstiffler
Well-Known Member
Very impressive!
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Reno_eNVy
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Okay, so it was an interesting warm-up stretch leading up to WCQ but it's finally here!
June 8th at 11am PDT, Cuba vs Canada at Estadio Pedro Marrero
vs
June 8th at 4pm PDT, USA vs Antigua and Barbuda at Raymond James Stadium
vs
My predictions:
Cuba - 2
Canada - 2
USA - 3
A&B - 1
June 8th at 11am PDT, Cuba vs Canada at Estadio Pedro Marrero
June 8th at 4pm PDT, USA vs Antigua and Barbuda at Raymond James Stadium
My predictions:
Cuba - 2
Canada - 2
USA - 3
A&B - 1
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Reno_eNVy
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First Euro 2012 match was a good one.
Poland 1-1 Greece
Both goals were a result of keeper errors that each team was able to capitalize on. However, Poland's goal was f**king textbook! Snap that header on the ground; skipped headers have a significantly higher rate of success. If he put-it-on-a-rope at head-level the keeper would have stopped it.
EDIT: And I finally found a highlight reel of the Russia/Czech match.
Russia 4-1 Czech Republic
Not bad. The Ruskies 3rd and 4th goals were a bit soft. Granted they were cracker shots but directly at the keeper who apparently has holes in his hands
Poland 1-1 Greece
Both goals were a result of keeper errors that each team was able to capitalize on. However, Poland's goal was f**king textbook! Snap that header on the ground; skipped headers have a significantly higher rate of success. If he put-it-on-a-rope at head-level the keeper would have stopped it.
EDIT: And I finally found a highlight reel of the Russia/Czech match.
Russia 4-1 Czech Republic
Not bad. The Ruskies 3rd and 4th goals were a bit soft. Granted they were cracker shots but directly at the keeper who apparently has holes in his hands
dwarven_stout
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Check out the big brain on Reno!
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Reno_eNVy
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furloaded
Member
Holy Cheesewheel !! Holland looses. Robben is a world class player, until he has to finish like WC 2010 final, CL final. Bad way to start in the Group of Death.
Germany bored the Portugese to death and then struck but defended the onslaught well. But 3 points is 3 points.
Germany bored the Portugese to death and then struck but defended the onslaught well. But 3 points is 3 points.
Great soccer Saturday - watched both DEN-NED and POR-GER matches, great level of play. Was brewing yesterday on the patio with the audio of the SPA-ITA match. Sounded great - need to find a highlight vid.
It must be tough for Guiseppi Rossi to sit in the studio instead of playing. They asked him in the studio about his decision to go Italian instead of US - I think the answers were good - but one always wonders about how the US game will improve if the good players go to the more established leagues - and national teams.
It must be tough for Guiseppi Rossi to sit in the studio instead of playing. They asked him in the studio about his decision to go Italian instead of US - I think the answers were good - but one always wonders about how the US game will improve if the good players go to the more established leagues - and national teams.
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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"fraid that's just something some leagues have to live with. Players only have short careers and need to follow the money and the experience of higher levels. It will get better over time. Ya just can't rush these things.
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Reno_eNVy
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It's true but that just seems to be where people immediately jump. They've done it for Brek Shea, Teal Bunbury, Omar Gonzalez.... the list goes on. There needs to be a core group of youngsters that dedicate themselves to the betterment of the American game rather than a higher paycheck (and likely less PT.)
But at least sometimes it works out.... Tim Ream (good riddance) went to the Premiership and later got relegated, so that's not too bad.
The playing time is a key issue, I think, Reno. But I have no problem with the very best US players playing in the very best international leagues, as long as they get playing time and develop. And play on the US national team!
Here's a cheer for Sweden today! Would love to have both Denmark and Sweden make out of their groups - an all-Scandinavian finals! Woot!
aygov
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It's sort of a paradoxical setup that is developing here. On one hand it seems like MLS and MLS teams are willing to shell out big style for aging has beens from European leagues whereas it's pretty well recognized that if you're a young talented US player you'll make more cash in Europe...
Perhaps the MLS might want to spend some more cash to keep the bright US talent in our league rather than using it to line David Beckham's already overflowing pockets?
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Reno_eNVy
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aygov, good points.
But they made alterations to the Designated Player rule for this season and on. There is more of an incentive to sign young players as DPs seeing as the younger the player, the less they count against the salary cap.
But they made alterations to the Designated Player rule for this season and on. There is more of an incentive to sign young players as DPs seeing as the younger the player, the less they count against the salary cap.
aygov
Well-Known Member
That is good start and hopefully it will evolve from there.
Unfortunately if it ends up in a bidding war I think the MLS will always lose. There is so much silly money flying around in Europe now....
Unfortunately if it ends up in a bidding war I think the MLS will always lose. There is so much silly money flying around in Europe now....
Think about the Dutch though - their league is not the greatest - yet their players are (arguably, very arguably...) some of the best the world has to offer. I'm not sure one needs a good league to produce good players.
BrewKnurd
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I have to agree with the point Pappers brought up... doesn't the best american players playing in the best league they can count as being "for the betterment of the American game"? I mean, I guess it depends on how you define the American game. If you mean pro soccer in america, then no, players going overseas does not directly aid soccer in america. But if you mean the national team, I think its hard to argue that a player going to a high level european league and getting playing time isn't better for their development than staying in the MLS at this point. Now, obviously going over there and sitting doesn't help at all.
As for the MLS shelling out money for big name, albeit over the hill, European stars... I'm all for it. They can teach the young 'uns.
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Reno_eNVy
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Fair enough. But my train of thought is more long term:
- Keep the stars in MLS (immediately better for MLS)
- Gain international attention from strong showings at friendlies and minor tournaments (WFC, Emirates Cup, etc)
- Keep expanding and raise the cap. That's more spots for current stars and young sleepers and more money to keep them in the country. Also, more money to bring in the big-timers.
- A larger pool of improved players in the country not only creates a better national team on paper but creates familiarity between players since they'd see each other all the time in the league. Not only that but it allows for regulars on the USMNT to develop a true American-style game. It's slowly happening, though. And it's similar to how MLS works: hard, physical, sometimes rough play but minimal to zero diving or cheap crap.
Over time, through attention, improvement of the game, improved attendance, and more country-wide soccer exposure (it just keeps getting better. Just look at the attendance for the recent friendlies) we'll create a league that just pumps out super stars.
It's a long journey ahead but it's doable with more money and work. And that includes the supporters as well. It's your job to spread the love of the sport!!
BrewKnurd
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I certainly see your points, and I think the main thing is that a strong MLS is certainly good for the US soccer culture in general. And I'm glad that I'm not in charge of how things work, because I'd surely F things up. But I would just argue that the growth and development of the league isn't hampered much by losing a handful of high level american pros to Europe. Meanwhile if the development of a handful of high level american pros is hampered by staying in a league that isn't quite at their level does significantly hamper the national team. By all means, as long as you can grow in the MLS, do it. But I just don't believe that say, dempsey, would be the player he is now if he had stayed in the MLS.
As for the development of an american style based on hard work and minimal cheap crap... you don't feel that that's already developed as the american style? I feel like that's what the USMNT has been known for ever since they actually started making it to WCs again.
