My First Pump - Mash Tun to BK Transfer Question

Decided to finally get a brew pump and went with the new ss chugger. I think I understand the method for say, pumping H2O from HLT to MT...but I'd also like pump from my MT to BK (I batch sparge). My question is, how does one go about performing this transfer? I know you don't want to run these pumps dry and I'm having a hard time seeing how you would handle pumping the first runnings and keeping the prime after the mash tun drains completely. Do you just shut of the pump when the wort clears the pump, and then reestablish a prime for the sparge runnings? Or would you just shut the valve off after the pump before the first runnings finish draining to keep fluid in the pump and maintain the prime?

Not sure if that is a confusing question or not...any help appreciated. Cheers.

You don't want to run the wort all the way down. Usually I'll start my sparge water coming in about the time the liquid level drops to about 1/2" over the grain bed. Then I try to maintain 1 inch over the grain bed until my sparge water runs out. The whole process usually takes 3-4 minutes

That makes sense. My only concern with that is sacrificing efficiency due to a hurried sparge. I usually like to stir my sparge for a good 5-10 minutes to rinse out as much of the sugars as possible. Also, now that I think of it...your method seems like it would require 2 pumps unless you are manually dumping your sparge water into the mash tun. I'm only going to be running one pump...any other suggestions?

Back the brew truck up...

Implied is you used to handle sparging using gravity alone, so what problem are you trying to solve with the pump?

Cheers!

wired247 said:

You don't want to run the wort all the way down. Usually I'll start my sparge water coming in about the time the liquid level drops to about 1/2" over the grain bed. Then I try to maintain 1 inch over the grain bed until my sparge water runs out. The whole process usually takes 3-4 minutes

Click to expand...

He said he wants to batch sparge and you are describing fly sparging.

It's impossible to anticipate when the hose between the MLT and pump is about to run dry/suck air so shutting it off just in time would be a miracle. You'll be pumping another batch of sparge directly after that so it's not too hard to establish a prime again. Frankly, once you depart from the old bucket dump transfer method, it's sort of a snowball effect. You will find that it's either better to get another pump and fly sparge or add a new tier for one new flow via gravity.

Correct - I used to sparge via gravity. Also used to heat strike/sparge water on a stove and dump into my cooler mash tun...but I'm sick of doing that. So I just added a keggle HLT to replace stovetop heating and make brew day more consolidated and efficient. Ultimately I will have a single tier rig and use the single pump for all fluid transfers.

@Bobby

so you are suggesting either using either (1) a single tier, fly sparge, two pump system or (2) a two tiered, batch sparge, single pump system?

Single tier, batch sparge, single pump is impractical?

jimbus said:

[...]Single tier, batch sparge, single pump is impractical?

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Yes, it's impractical, and that's why I asked what you're trying to solve.

Either you need gravity working for you for at least one of the transfers (HLT->MLT, or MLT->BK) or you need two pumps.

[edit] And it doesn't matter whether you fly or batch sparge, the same truism holds...

Cheers!

Gotcha, guess I'll think about a two tiered system. And not to beat a dead horse, but even with two pumps...when you finish pumping your sparge from the MLT to BK, theres going to be a few seconds after it finishes draining that your pump is going to run "dry" before you shut it off, right? I can't imagine a few seconds is going to kill your pump.

I gotta buddy that has a single tier stand with one pump and he batch sparges. You can't fly sparge with one pump without a two tier.

jimbus said:

Gotcha, guess I'll think about a two tiered system. And not to beat a dead horse, but even with two pumps...when you finish pumping your sparge from the MLT to BK, theres going to be a few seconds after it finishes draining that your pump is going to run "dry" before you shut it off, right? I can't imagine a few seconds is going to kill your pump.

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Ugh - sorry about the first attempt - totally missed the "MLT to BK". Sheesh - watching a football game, a baseball game, and reading the forum at the same time obviously causes things to be missed

Anyway...I watch the end of the sparge so the pump screaming is kept to a minimum, but yeah, sometimes I get a few seconds of "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" before I hit the switch....

Also, regarding what I said earlier: "practical" to me means not having to deal with hot leaking hoses that have to be quickly swapped between brew phases. If you had asked "is it possible" to do a single tier, single pump system, I'd say "yes - but it's not practical"...

Cheers!

[edit: damn - I need to read slower]

Oh I agree with having more sparge water than necessary to avoid that situation, but my post said "when you finish pumping your sparge (I meant sparged wort) from the MLT to BK"...wouldn't want to waste any beer and leave it behind in the MLT!

Bobby_M said:

He said he wants to batch sparge and you are describing fly sparging.

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Missed the batch sparge bit.

There's no reason you can't use one pump on a single tier system if you're batch sparging. No matter what set up you have, if you are using a pump you're going to have to run the pump dry to get all the liquid out - just stay close and keep your ears peeled, when the pump noise changes from a quiet whirr to a slight rumble just shut it off. If you are using quick connects it's a piece of cake.

jimbus said:

Gotcha, guess I'll think about a two tiered system. And not to beat a dead horse, but even with two pumps...when you finish pumping your sparge from the MLT to BK, theres going to be a few seconds after it finishes draining that your pump is going to run "dry" before you shut it off, right? I can't imagine a few seconds is going to kill your pump.

Click to expand...

IMO, it's best to set up your pump so that it is very easy to prime. I installed a bleeder valve on the output side of my pump and I can prime it in a matter of seconds each and every time. Running most pumps dry for a few seconds won't do any harm. Priming my pump is so simple and easy that I don't worry at all about losing the prime. The re-priming routine is now mostly automatic for me.

I ran a single tier, single pump batch sparging rig for at least a year. It's possible but it's a pain. The one thing that would make it easier is to have a bottom drain on the MLT rather than a side bulkhead that relies on the siphon being kept (this only applies to converted Keg style MLTs).

If you do it, my first advice is to not try to double batch sparge. Stick to a slightly thinner mash so that the first runnings and the single batch sparge runnings are about the same volume.

Also, as you begin pumping out your MLT, you can start out at about half throttle but as you near the last gallon of runnings, you want to slow down to a near trickle to allow excess wort to continue dripping out of the grainbed. If the pump runs too fast, you suck air and lose prime. 5 minutes later, you've got an excess 3-4 quarts of wort sitting in the MLT that isn't getting pumped out. It effectively acts like dead space that you wouldn't have measured as deadspace by doing a water fill and drain test.

Bottom line, it's easier and more efficient to fly sparge if you're pumping out of the mash. If I ever get around to it, my rig is going to be a 2-tier where the HLT is up higher for gravity sparge, pump drain.

You shouldn't run March pumps dry.

They can tolerate running empty for a couple seconds after flow stops, though....they are all "wet" on the inside still, and as soon as air hits them and they lose prime, they stop pumping, (but there's still liquid in the pump cavity...it just swirls around with the air).

Just don't let the thing whir away for 10 minutes after air hits it. If you shut it off within a couple seconds of the pitch change indicating air hit it, it'll be fine. (The concern is that, without liquid, it will overheat from friction....this can happen quickly if it's truly DRY in there, but you were just pumping liquid a second ago...it's still wet and lubricated, and there's still wort in that pump cavity...)