Hey folks! New to all grain, would love your input on my gameplan.

Hey folks as I said above I'm planning my first all grain brew day (as many have before here I'm sure), and I'd love your input.

I'm planning a one gallon batch (because I have other needs for my money now and I can use the equipment I have on hand). I have an unmodified 2 gallon cooler sitting around.

The recipe I've put together:
2 lbs Golden promise (2Lov)
8 ozs Crystal 80

I don't have my hops yet but they're coming, so I don't know the AA but I'm going to use Fuggles, targeting 30 ibus or so? Additions at 60 and 15 or 10 (not sure which on the latter yet).

Harvested S-04 with a started (a little concerned about over pitching here)

Hopville claims 1.063OG/1.017FG......which I'm sure I'm gonna miss despite my best efforts not to.

I'm planning to mash in the cooler at 1.3 quarts/lb, not sure what temp yet. I'm planning to "batch sparge" by using a grain bag in the cooler as a "false bottom". I'm planning to mash with the grains in the bag, remove the bag, dump the "first runnings", put the bag back, then add my sparge water and repeat to collect my "second runnings".

I'm aiming for 1.5-ish gallons of wort (haven't done a boil off with water yet, but will before brew day and plan to incorporate that into figuring out my sparge water amount), to boil down to 1 gallon.

I don't know how ideal that is, but I HOPE it's a little more efficent than a BIAB (which is my other option). I have no plans to mess with the mash PH or add brewing salts, I'm planning on using normal tap water which has served me fairly well to this point with my extract batches. My tap water is quite soft and tasty, also I can't smell any clohrine in there if it is.

Anything I'm missing? I'd love any input you guys have, I'm no expert and I know I'll have beer regardless, but I want to have something drinkable and yet breakout "on my own" a bit from an established recipe to test my own knowledge of what I've learned in this awesome hobby

If I was going to brew such a small amount I would just BIAB. Yes your efficiency will be a little lower but so what? If you just add another 1lb of grain (if that) to make up for it. It will be far easier and faster. You also will might get a better beer since you are essenially only collecting the 1st runnings.

8 oz of crystal malt is a little high for a batch that small. I would cut it down to 4. Other than that it sounds like you will be fine. For a 1 gallon batch you probably won't even need to do a starter. Mr Malty says you need about 20 ml of yeast slurry, which is only about 1.5 tablespoons.

You're essentially doing a real-live mash, and the brewing bag is the manifold. I used to do it this way to easily hold temps in the cooler and also be able to sparge and get high efficiency. Nothing wrong with your approach there.

If you're certain you can't hit that OG, why not increase the base malt in order to compensate for a planned low efficiency?

consarned double-post blip...

With only 2 lbs base malts, I would cut the crystal down to 2 oz.

I did a small experimental batch a couple weeks ago and used BIAB with a full volume mash and no sparge. I got 72% efficiency, which I thought was quite acceptable.

Good luck.

-a.

Phunhog said:

If I was going to brew such a small amount I would just BIAB. Yes your efficiency will be a little lower but so what? If you just add another 1lb of grain (if that) to make up for it. It will be far easier and faster. You also will might get a better beer since you are essenially only collecting the 1st runnings.

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I will eventually go 5 gallon all grain. I'm mostly focused on the procedure, and wanting to try to mash properly. Hell I'm not even tied to the beer style, this is all about the procedure and developing my process for when I scale up Hell I'm not even tied to the beer style as I expect my OG to slide (not that I don't intend to try and hit it), I'm going to brew and get what I get.

emetcalf said:

8 oz of crystal malt is a little high for a batch that small. I would cut it down to 4. Other than that it sounds like you will be fine. For a 1 gallon batch you probably won't even need to do a starter. Mr Malty says you need about 20 ml of yeast slurry, which is only about 1.5 tablespoons.

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What is the difference between the 8oz of crystal and the 4oz? Why would you recommend dropping the amount? What parameter of my beer will that change make? I'll most likely drop it to the 4oz, but I'm all about learning

As for the yeast starter I could probably just pitch half a pack of some decent yeast....but I don't have any. Here in BFE the only yeast I readilly have access to is coopers 5g packets....yuck.

So I'm going to rouse some nearly year old washed S-04, get her going in a starter, wash it again, and pitch. If I wash the cake that comes off the batch that yeast should be nice and healthy again (I think)

BMGfan said:

What is the difference between the 8oz of crystal and the 4oz? Why would you recommend dropping the amount? What parameter of my beer will that change make? I'll most likely drop it to the 4oz, but I'm all about learning

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It will affect color and sweetness of the beer. 8oz. in that batch size will be dark and very sweet. I usually use about 10-15% max crystal malts, but have been known to go over that for certain styles.

While using the cooler might be a nice exercise, for a one gallon batch BIAB would be very simple...mash in your kettle and stick the kettle in a warm oven during the mash. Just FWIW and cheers

BMGfan said:

What is the difference between the 8oz of crystal and the 4oz? Why would you recommend dropping the amount? What parameter of my beer will that change make? I'll most likely drop it to the 4oz, but I'm all about learning

As for the yeast starter I could probably just pitch half a pack of some decent yeast....but I don't have any. Here in BFE the only yeast I readilly have access to is coopers 5g packets....yuck.

So I'm going to rouse some nearly year old washed S-04, get her going in a starter, wash it again, and pitch. If I wash the cake that comes off the batch that yeast should be nice and healthy again (I think)

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tre9er said:

It will affect color and sweetness of the beer. 8oz. in that batch size will be dark and very sweet. I usually use about 10-15% max crystal malts, but have been known to go over that for certain styles.

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This is pretty much it. Crystal malt is mostly unfermentable, so it will make your finished beer pretty thick. Going from 8 oz to 4 oz drops you from 20% crystal malt down to 11%.

If your yeast is a year old then the starter is a good idea. You will probably still end up over pitching, but it shouldn't hurt anything too much.

emetcalf said:

This is pretty much it. Crystal malt is mostly unfermentable.

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Actually, you'd be surprised. There was an experiment (I think by Nilo) that showed that Crystal can convert itself to an extent and becomes much more fermentable in the presence of base malt. It does have unfermentables, but not as much as we used to think.

Well in light of your guys' comments I think I might alter the plan a bit.

I've got 3kg of Golden Promise on hand (I wanted more than i needed on hand). And more n'enuf Crystal (1kg, I could only get it a kg at a time).

So I'm thinking of trimming the oridginal plan down a bit and making 2 batches of a 1.048 beer (I've got DME on hand if I come in with a low OG). Then I can throw 2oz crystal in one batch (7%) and 4oz (13%) in the other. I'm thinking of hopping it exactly the same for both. Other benifet is that it gives me two kicks at the can without having to wait on more ingredients coming. So the recipe as it sits now is (I think):

1lb, 10oz Golden promise
2oz Crystal 80

1/10th oz UK Fuggles (5% AA) @ 60
1/4oz UK Fuggles @10 (maybe 15? any thoughts?)

Should be ~1.048/1.014, ~19 IBU, and 13-ish SRM.

Is this gonna be too sweet or will I want more bittering? I'm not really a hop head, but I'd like something malty and well rounded when I'm done. I don't want to load up on the specialty grains so I'm kind of shooting for a red brown ale I guess?

Seriously thanks guys for taking the time to guide a newbie, it's really appreciated. I'll be sure to post back how things went after this weekend

19 IBU is low enough to be malty, IMO. The 10 minute hop addition will give you more aroma than flavor. 15 would give you more flavor and slightly more IBU's. Up to you. How sweet it is also depends on how high you mash. I'd shoot for something in the middle, 154 probably so it doesn't dry out too much and lose the malt, but also isn't so high in unfermentable sugars that is comes off sweet.

That looks a lot like the special special bitters that I brew often. I use M.O. instead of G.P. and crystal 60 instead of 80, but the ratios are very close to what I use, and work well for me.

You hops are a little bit different. I use 1 1/2 oz at 60 minutes for a 5 gallon batch which would translate to 3/10 oz for 1 gallon. I then use 1/2 oz at 15 minutes and flameout, which would translate to 1/10 oz for 1 gallon.
I would bump up the 60 minute addition to at least 0.2 oz. This would not give you a very bitter beer. Your single addition at 10 minutes should be fine, in fact, I think I may try a single 10 minute addition and see if I can notice any difference.

Good luck,

-a.

Well, I brewed this today. And I screwed up the mash somewhere. My efficency was a whopping 17%, and my measured pre-boil OG was 1.012 against a predicted 1.031.

First I think my crush wasnt great, thanks to the homebrew store I ordered them from There was quite a few whole uncrushed grains in the base malt. The crystal seemed ok.

Then I had a hard time holding temp in my cooler. I preheated it heated water to 165 (shooting for 154), and then mashed in. I had to add hot water from the kettle three times over the hour the temp dropped. I let the temp wander between 154 and 151, I know that the second time I put water in to brin the temp back up I added a bit much I hit 158, which I stirred through for but 2 minutes until it dropped. Other than that everything seemed to go smooth.

I sparged for about 2 minutes with 170 water, combined with my first runnings and took my pre-boil OG: 1.012

I used 11oz of DME to bring it up to a pre-boil of 1.028.

The beer tasted good going into the fermenter, and I'm not worried about that, but I'm a little disappointed in my first mashing. I didn't expect to hit my pre-boil OG exactly, but I missed it my like 20 points

Ouch. If at first you don't succeed... Brew, Brew again. That is going to be an unrepeatable brew.

When taking the pre boil sample for the gravity reading, did you stir the wort really well? If not, you will have the final runnings (with a very low S.G.) sitting on top of the earlier runnings which will have a much higher S.G.

-a.

ajf said:

When taking the pre boil sample for the gravity reading, did you stir the wort really well? If not, you will have the final runnings (with a very low S.G.) sitting on top of the earlier runnings which will have a much higher S.G.

-a.

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I didn't stir the second runnings into the first, I just poured it in on top and took a sample. Cooled the sample (but in hindsight I realize that I cooled the sample but didnt measure the temp when I took the OG), measured the 1.012, figured out my dme addition, added it, remeasured my OG at 1.028, and then boiled. My cooled post-boil OG was 1.048.....exactly where I was hoping to be from the start.

So the fact I didn't stir the wort together certainly could contribute to the low OG measurement, but I'm pretty sure my OG following the mash was close to that low anyways 'cause wouldnt my post boil be high due to the added dme if it was simply a measurement error?

Also thanks again dude for taking the time to proffer advice, I really appreciate you experienced guys helping out. Unfortunately research and reading only goes so far. Seriously thank you.

I don't stir my runnings when in the kettle. It's nearly boiling by the time I get the final runnings in there anyways, so turnover is good and it's all well-combined. I hit my numbers pre and post boil...so never worried about it.

I would bet the farm that your issue is crush. Those temp fluctuations won't affect efficiency one lick. They would only affect fermentability (ie. which sugars you ended up with). Did you end up with the right volume pre-boil? If you were really high, that would be a volume issue and your wort was diluted. If you were right on, and you did say you stirred well, the crush is about the only place that could have affected things.

tre9er said:

I would bet the farm that your issue is crush. Those temp fluctuations won't affect efficiency one lick. They would only affect fermentability (ie. which sugars you ended up with). Did you end up with the right volume pre-boil? If you were really high, that would be a volume issue and your wort was diluted. If you were right on, and you did say you stirred well, the crush is about the only place that could have affected things.

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That's kinda what I assumed (crush), but I wasn't sure if I unfolded the enzymes when I hit 158 and thus killed my mash 30 mins in. I know temp is critical during the mash. I did monitor and stir the mash, but not the second runnings into the first, I just dumped them on top.

I did end up with the right pre-boil volume 'cause I used less sparge water to compensate for the added mash water. Basically I measured my quantity of first runnings (2.4l), and then used the difference between the quantity of first runnings collected and my calculated pre-boil volume (~6ltrs/1.54gal) as the amount of sparge water (1.6ltrs). I didn't measure my collected wort, but it had to have been within a cup or two either way, and it fills ~1/3rd of the 2.5 gallon carboy it's fermenting in, so I call that close enough for now. Nailing my volumes EXACTLY is certainly something to focus on later, but for now I call it a success if I'm within a point or two of the plan. I'll have beer and I can always raise the brewing bar so it's always a challenge

You did well to calculate your sparge volume on the fly like that. Good on ya. I too monitor my first runnings and make sure nothing weird happened.

Sounds like crush is the only thing that could have happened here. That 158 would have had to hold for a very long time. I overnight mash at 158 often and I get a typical "full bodied" profile from it as the beta amylase enzymes aren't fully denatured immediately (otherwise I'd end up with really, really unfermentable wort).