Was Alton Brown Right? Good Eats

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cpulley1

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The Good Eats Beer Show

Hello! I am doing research to make my first attempt at brewing beer. I came across this episode of Good Eats (link above) and was hoping to get some feedback from other brewers. His equipment looks brand new, so I doubt he's a well seasoned brewer.

Anything he might have done wrong? Any idea how he could have improved? Most importantly, how would his beer taste?

The video is about 20 min long, if anyone could watch it and comment I'd appreciate it.
 
Dude did LOTS wrong. Do some searches around here about it.

I'm sure he made "beer" - but how that beer would really taste is beyond what I'd be willing to try.

At least he got someone into it. Do some searching for Alton Brown and you should find a nice big thread where we discussed that show and it's methods.
 
There are lots of threads on this already. Not to be rude, but try the search feature here. It's been discussed.

Short answer, Buy a copy of "How To Brew" by John Palmer. You will be better off, long run.
 
I really wish they would re-make that episode and trash the original! It's actually too painful for me to watch anymore.
 
To keep it simple though, yes, what he made is beer and you could do it the same way and be fine. You will progress and get better as you brew, and will come to realize the things that he did wrong, and the terms that he grossly misused.

Welcome to HBT!
 
Welcome!

His episode does get people interested in brewing which is great! He unfortunately uses some outdated techniques and some downright wrong ones. If you'll take some time to read through How to Brew - By John Palmer (or buy the book, I just read the whole thing online). You'll get a much better idea of how to do things. I've also learned a ton from this site, more than I could get from hundreds of books.
 
And just to list some mistakes he made.

First, he was not mashing, he was steeping grains. He was using specialty grains that could not be mashed.

second, he doesn't take the grain out before he boils. Doing it his way will leave a very astringent flavor.

Third, adding hops at the end of the boil is not "dry hopping." Dry hopping is adding hops after fermentation.

Forth, his info on the different hop additions is wrong. The first addition is for bitterness, the last is for flavor and aroma (depending on how late it is)

Fifth, it is not recommended to use store bought ice for cooling your wort. you can't be certain it is sterile.

sixth, he didn't oxygenate his beer or make a starter for his yeast. They way he did it, he probably ended up never fully fermenting his beer.

Also, use a hydrometer.

He did do a good job on the bottling info. However, your beer probably won't be ready to drink for at least 21 days.
 
Another thing, take the yeast out of the fridge when you first start brewing at the very least (if you aren't going to make a starter), and get your wort down below 80* before pitching. Cold yeast in hot (87*) wort will freak those yeasties out.

And give it more time in the fermenter than one week - more like 2-4 depending on the style.
 
I was really surprised with AB regarding his abuse of the yeast. The man knows about making bread and other bread-like goodies, so one would assume he would know about yeast thresholds. I'm no baker so it took me two rounds of killing off the yeasts in a hot wort via Mr. Beer before I the light bulb went off. But AB should really know better.

I still dig the show. I used one of his duck recipes and it was friggin fantastic.
 
Maybe I'm feeling argumentative, maybe I just can't take Alton Bashing... but let me make a few corrections for you. We don't want incorrect information!!

mkorpal said:
And just to list some mistakes he made.

First, he was not mashing, he was steeping grains. He was using specialty grains that are not mashed alone, or steeped with extract.

second, he doesn't take the grain out before he boils. Doing it his way Could leave a very astringent flavor.

Third, adding hops at the end of the boil is not "dry hopping." Dry hopping is adding hops after fermentation.

Forth, his info on the different hop additions is wrong. The first addition is for bitterness, the last is for flavor and aroma (depending on how late it is)

Fifth, it is not recommended to use store bought ice for cooling your wort by some, but many others do. you can't be certain it is sterile.

sixth, he didn't oxygenate his beer or make a starter for his yeast. They way he did it, he possibly ended up never fully fermenting his beer.

Also, use a hydrometer.

He did do a good job on the bottling info. However, your beer probably won't be ready to drink for at least 21 days.
Click to expand...


Alton made beer with his techniques. My guess, it was very drinkable, and probably better than what most people drink every day. Lets not get overly picky here, there are SOOO many levels of technique to brewing. A great example is the 6th point... I rarley "oxygenate" my beer, or even shake the fermenter. I have never made a starter, and yet... I get full attenuation based on the yeast I use almost every time. I've never repitched, had a bottle bomb, or experienced any other issues with fermentation. Would I benifit from starters and oxygenation? Yep.. but they are not a requirement.

To sum up... Alton made beer, good for him!! I hope lots of people try!
 
MrShake said:
Maybe I'm feeling argumentative, maybe I just can't take Alton Bashing... but let me make a few corrections for you. We don't want incorrect information!!




Alton made beer with his techniques. My guess, it was very drinkable, and probably better than what most people drink every day. Lets not get overly picky here, there are SOOO many levels of technique to brewing. A great example is the 6th point... I rarley "oxygenate" my beer, or even shake the fermenter. I have never made a starter, and yet... I get full attenuation based on the yeast I use almost every time. I've never repitched, had a bottle bomb, or experienced any other issues with fermentation. Would I benifit from starters and oxygenation? Yep.. but they are not a requirement.

To sum up... Alton made beer, good for him!! I hope lots of people try!
Click to expand...

Are you using dry yeast or liquid yeast. I don't have a problem not oxygenating with dry yeast. But no starter and no oxygen with a vial of liquid yeast could cause problems.

Also, I know some do use store bought ice directly in their wort to cool it down. I merely said it was recommended. And don't you think it's odd that Mr. Brown would go so far as to use sterile gloves but use store bought ice.

The point is that, sure, you could make beer like this. But chances are it will have problems with it. For a new brewer, making a beer like he did and having it turn out bad will probably drive them away from the hobby for good. It doesn't take much energy to use better, safer brewing practices.
 
Man I just watched the episode, and what really tugged on my heart was watching him pull those yeast out of the fridge and toss them straight into 87 degree wort! Yeast are your friends... tiny little soldiers, and you are the general... your suppose to take better care of your troops. Shame on AB.
 
I have read John Palmer's Book and have learned far more than I thought I would. I am a biochemist, and his metabolic discussions and enzymatic cycles are spot on! (a little simplified for the sake of understanding without in depth detail, but infinitely better than I'd expect.) Thank you all VERY Much for your input. The home brewing community is obviously a friendly and active group. Expect to hear more from me soon!
 
mkorpal said:
Are you using dry yeast or liquid yeast. I don't have a problem not oxygenating with dry yeast. But no starter and no oxygen with a vial of liquid yeast could cause problems.
Click to expand...

I've used both Dry and Liquid yeasts, never had a problem. Of course, I'm not brewing big beers either (neither is AB)

mkorpal said:
Also, I know some do use store bought ice directly in their wort to cool it down. I merely said it was recommended. And don't you think it's odd that Mr. Brown would go so far as to use sterile gloves but use store bought ice.
Click to expand...
Alton doesn't use "sterile" gloves to be "sterile". He uses them almost every show as a clean method of working with his hands

mkorpal said:
The point is that, sure, you could make beer like this. But chances are it will have problems with it.
Click to expand...
Completely incorrect. Chances are (like 90%+) there will be no problems with the beer. Beer is a resiliant thing. Sure, its succeptable to infection and other issues, but its really a LOT harder to screw up a batch of beer than most believe.

mkorpal said:
For a new brewer, making a beer like he did and having it turn out bad will probably drive them away from the hobby for good. It doesn't take much energy to use better, safer brewing practices.
Click to expand...

The problem here is, a new brewer, using these techniques, will probably make a beer thats better than the BMC they are currently drinking. Very unlikely to drive them away from the hobby. The show also does a good job of promoting the Local Homebrew Supply places that are filled with knowledge and help!

Nothing AB did is going to cause harm or bad beer. The only thing he really did "WRONG" was misuse terms.
 
Although Alton makes mistakes, his show does a great job of promoting home brewing. I got into this hobby from watching his show. And my local store says everytime his show is on the Food Network, they have a bunch of people come into the store and buy kits right after.
 
Newbie's impression: Amber Waves is kinda like the Mr. Beer. It's an easy target, because sure, it's really simplified and dumbed down. But it get people thinking "wait...I can make beer?" and get them into the hobby where they can learn and grow as brewers.
 
Richie said:
Although Alton makes mistakes, his show does a great job of promoting home brewing. I got into this hobby from watching his show. And my local store says everytime his show is on the Food Network, they have a bunch of people come into the store and buy kits right after.
Click to expand...

+1 to this both me and my father got into this hobby after watching the show the first time it aired.
 
MrShake said:
Nothing AB did is going to cause harm or bad beer. The only thing he really did "WRONG" was misuse terms.
Click to expand...

I know what you are saying. It's just that I think that there are better practices to use in home brewing. Why not show them these better practices. I'm sure most people here would tell you not to boil your grain, to avoid store bought ice (as a precaution, mostly), and to aerate your wort or make a starter if using liquid yeast. Sure, what Alton made was beer, and it might have tasted fine, but why run the risk.
 
I like his show and record/watch it all the time...but I have never seen this episode. I always thought he should make a beer show.

However, as much as I like the show he occasionally goes off the 'over-thinking it' deep end. The contraptions he built to make 'no-fry' chicken wings and 'layered' nachos were laughable. Talk about over-complicating.

I never use his recipes...he's a chemistry teacher not a true 'chef'. IMO it's the history, facts, trivia, science that make the show.
 
Trubadour, AZ_IPA:
Careful...you're age is showing. ;)

I remember those shows fondly. Don't forget Dukes of Hazard and The Hulk.
 
mkorpal said:
I know what you are saying. It's just that I think that there are better practices to use in home brewing. Why not show them these better practices. I'm sure most people here would tell you not to boil your grain, to avoid store bought ice (as a precaution, mostly), and to aerate your wort or make a starter if using liquid yeast. Sure, what Alton made was beer, and it might have tasted fine, but why run the risk.
Click to expand...

It PROBABLY tasted great, very little risk!!

There is always another step to take in brewing.

If I was asked on the street how to start homebrewing, I'm not going to tell them to:

Go out and buy 2 brand new Sabco Kegs (because thats the only moral way) and a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler, drill 2 holds in each keg, install valves in both kegs and cooler, and thermometers/sight glasses in both kegs. Then go out and buy 2 turkey fryer kits and 2 tanks of propane. Throw away the pots. The purchase 50 feet of copper refrigerator tubing and the proper fittings and bend around a corny keg (buy some of those as well) Then bring water to 166 degrees in 1 keggle, add that water to your pre-heated cooler MLT, check temp, adjust if necessary. Wait 1 hour, drain into 2nd keggle. Put the rest of the sparge water into the MLT and drain it. Then bring to boil, add hops in 15 minute intervals for a total of 60 minutes. Cool using your chiller to less than 80 degrees, drain to fermenter, add yeast. Then cover fermenter and wait for at least 2 weeks. If the gravity reading is stable for 3 days (do I need to explain gravity? oh, buy a hydrometer) then rack to a keg. Place keg in kegerator or keezer (did you buy or build one of those yet?) and force carb until ready. Then serve beer, allow to come to temp based on style before consuming


Now... thats most of my process. Its not complicated to me, but to a complete newbie, that would be overwhelming and I would not recommend it for their first brew. I, however, wouldn't make beer skipping a single step. I don't disagree that many of us do things different than Alton Brown did on his tv show, but that does not make what we do better, or right, or something a new brewer SHOULD do.

You keep saying there are "Better" practices. That is a subjective thing. Better why? Better because you do it different? The point being this...
Alton's process is DEAD SIMPLE. Alton's process is INEXPENSIVE. Alton's process MAKES BEER. Alton's process is ACCESSIBLE to anyone. And... Alton's process will only benefit a new brewer by producing beer.
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
I like his show and record/watch it all the time...but I have never seen this episode. I always thought he should make a beer show.

However, as much as I like the show he occasionally goes off the 'over-thinking it' deep end. The contraptions he built to make 'no-fry' chicken wings and 'layered' nachos were laughable. Talk about over-complicating.

I never use his recipes...he's a chemistry teacher not a true 'chef'. IMO it's the history, facts, trivia, science that make the show.
Click to expand...

He does have a cullinary degree and did work as a full-time chef before the show. Albeit he did that AFTER as successfull career and a videographer.
 
MrShake said:
It PROBABLY tasted great, very little risk!!

There is always another step to take in brewing.

If I was asked on the street how to start homebrewing, I'm not going to tell them to:

Go out and buy 2 brand new Sabco Kegs (because thats the only moral way) and a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler, drill 2 holds in each keg, install valves in both kegs and cooler, and thermometers/sight glasses in both kegs. Then go out and buy 2 turkey fryer kits and 2 tanks of propane. Throw away the pots. The purchase 50 feet of copper refrigerator tubing and the proper fittings and bend around a corny keg (buy some of those as well) Then bring water to 166 degrees in 1 keggle, add that water to your pre-heated cooler MLT, check temp, adjust if necessary. Wait 1 hour, drain into 2nd keggle. Put the rest of the sparge water into the MLT and drain it. Then bring to boil, add hops in 15 minute intervals for a total of 60 minutes. Cool using your chiller to less than 80 degrees, drain to fermenter, add yeast. Then cover fermenter and wait for at least 2 weeks. If the gravity reading is stable for 3 days (do I need to explain gravity? oh, buy a hydrometer) then rack to a keg. Place keg in kegerator or keezer (did you buy or build one of those yet?) and force carb until ready. Then serve beer, allow to come to temp based on style before consuming


Now... thats most of my process. Its not complicated to me, but to a complete newbie, that would be overwhelming and I would not recommend it for their first brew. I, however, wouldn't make beer skipping a single step. I don't disagree that many of us do things different than Alton Brown did on his tv show, but that does not make what we do better, or right, or something a new brewer SHOULD do.

You keep saying there are "Better" practices. That is a subjective thing. Better why? Better because you do it different? The point being this...
Alton's process is DEAD SIMPLE. Alton's process is INEXPENSIVE. Alton's process MAKES BEER. Alton's process is ACCESSIBLE to anyone. And... Alton's process will only benefit a new brewer by producing beer.
Click to expand...

I would tell a person to add specialty grains to a nylon mess bag, steep the grains in 155 degree water for 30 minutes, remove and let drain. Bring water to a boil. Add malt extract. Add hops and time for 60 minutes. After 60 minutes, take pot and cool in an ice bath. Add to fermentor and top off to 5 gallons. Stir for 5 minutes to mix and add oxygen. Add yeast. Put on airlock. It doesn't have to be complicated.

Why in the hell would you tell a first time brewer to boil his grain and use store bought ice

Do you boil your grains?
 
I did not know that MrShake, thanks for correcting. Having seen him handle a knife and a saute pan I NEVER would have thought he was a 'chef' of any sort. But then again, Chef Emiril Lagasse handled knives/pans in a laughably 'inexperienced' way when I used to watch his show.

But I know why that can be. Many chefs sit it an office and write stuff out for the actual cooks to prepare and do very little actual cooking. I was one of those cooks for many years and when I see some of these guys on the Food Channel I always think that most Waffle House cooks could cook circles around these guys.

Imagine a guy who went to Brewing School in Germany...yet had only brewed a handful of times. Similar to that...lotsa knowledge but very little firsthand experience and next to zero technique. At least that's how it appears to me.
 
Think Chef Martin Yan can show us how to make sake?? I loved his show. Whatever happened to him?
 
cpulley1 said:
The Good Eats Beer Show

Hello! I am doing research to make my first attempt at brewing beer. I came across this episode of Good Eats (link above) and was hoping to get some feedback from other brewers. His equipment looks brand new, so I doubt he's a well seasoned brewer.

Anything he might have done wrong? Any idea how he could have improved? Most importantly, how would his beer taste?

The video is about 20 min long, if anyone could watch it and comment I'd appreciate it.
Click to expand...

He did exactly 1 thing right and 1 thing wrong.

The 1 thing right he did is attempt address the simplicity of making beer at home.

The 1 thing wrong he did is air this episode.
 
And Mr. Beer doesn't overly simplify home beer making... I'd say Alton Brown's methods are leaps and bounds better than Mr. Beer.

As experienced homebrewers, we know that kit & kilo, Mr. Beer, Craigtube or Alton's Amber Waves episode are not the best way to make beer. To many, this is the first exposure to brewing. While his methods are a little flawed, he has never professed to be an avid homebrewer. Aside from his mistakes on dry hopping, most of the techniques are probably from dated books and recipes. Papazian's book contains all kinds of stuff I'd never do to my beer.
 
mkorpal said:
I would tell a person to add specialty grains to a nylon mess bag, steep the grains in 155 degree water for 30 minutes, remove and let drain. Bring water to a boil. Add malt extract. Add hops and time for 60 minutes. After 60 minutes, take pot and cool in an ice bath. Add to fermentor and top off to 5 gallons. Stir for 5 minutes to mix and add oxygen. Add yeast. Put on airlock. It doesn't have to be complicated.

Why in the hell would you tell a first time brewer to boil his grain and use store bought ice

Do you boil your grains?
Click to expand...

Nope, I don't boil my grains, why? Because I NOW know better. Have I... yep, and made a GREAT beer doing it.

You keep missing the point. A new brewer is going to successfully brew a good beer using EXACTLY the technique Alton Brown does. Then, if they are interested, they will get better, learn, improve and begin to brew beers they love, that interest them, and use the techniques they want to use.
 
just got done watching that.....use it for one thing, enthusiasm. there were so many things wrong with that i can't even go into them
 
I can't get over how everyone says "he did it wrong". Did he get beer? Then he did it right. Every single brewer does the same thing (make beer) using different techniques, are we all wrong?
 
mkorpal said:
I would tell a person to add specialty grains to a nylon mess bag, steep the grains in 155 degree water for 30 minutes, remove and let drain. Bring water to a boil. Add malt extract. Add hops and time for 60 minutes. After 60 minutes, take pot and cool in an ice bath. Add to fermentor and top off to 5 gallons. Stir for 5 minutes to mix and add oxygen. Add yeast. Put on airlock. It doesn't have to be complicated.

Why in the hell would you tell a first time brewer to boil his grain and use store bought ice

Do you boil your grains?
Click to expand...

but you forgot to tell them to remove from flame and stir until fully integrated to prevent scorching of the extract. i do believe us uses a strainer and colendar which would have brought in o2 to the wort
 

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