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i think we humans should be the best stewards we can possibly be and turn over the earth to the next generation in as good, if not better condition than we inherited it.

i also think the politicization of global warming is sick. science shouldn't be bought by either side. it seems to me, both sides have their conclusion, now they're busy building models to prove what they want the outcome to be.
 
The human race has developed a lot of real bad habits, and if they aren't undone real soon, the consequences are going to be terminal for many species. Beyond those already destroyed.

"According to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, there are currently 539 plant and animal species at risk in Canada."
"Another 13 species are already extinct.":(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals_of_the_United_States

That's scary.
 
Just face it.... We are going to tumble into the sun.

The end is Neigh and Zombies will rule the world.
 
mr x said:
The human race has developed a lot of real bad habits, and if they aren't undone real soon, the consequences are going to be terminal for many species. Beyond those already destroyed.

"According to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, there are currently 539 plant and animal species at risk in Canada."
"Another 13 species are already extinct.":(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals_of_the_United_States

That's scary.
Click to expand...

Dude animals died off way before Humans had anything to do with it, its part of life. Survival of the fittest. Like Ed im sick of seeing these people that live in huge house's, private jets bitching about it. If they were so worried about it they would move into a 1500 sq foot house and drive a Honda, do they? hell no. People like Sheryl Crow drive around in huge cat powered Diesels talking about pollution. Give me a brake.
 
Ryanh1801 said:
Dude animals died off way before Humans had anything to do with it
Click to expand...
Not all of them. The ones dying off now are a direct result of human influence. Whatever Sheryl Crow does doesn't change that.
 
I live in a 900 sq ft house and drive a Honda.

I think there is mostly something to global warming. I definitly think people need to drive less and it would be a good idea to reduce carbon emissions whether it has any effect on the climate or not.

Those of you who don't believe it at all possibly could end up being right, but I tend to think the idea of less polution sounds good regardless.

Now give me my commie pinko membership card.
 
Ryanh1801 said:
Dude animals died off way before Humans had anything to do with it, its part of life. Survival of the fittest.
Click to expand...
I think that's the point -- mass extinctions have happened in the past (dinosaurs being the most well known). But never in the history of our planet has one species been known to cause the demise of so many others. It is kinda scarey.

And don't confuse species extinction with survival of the fittest -- very common misconception.
 
mr x said:
The human race has developed a lot of real bad habits, and if they aren't undone real soon, the consequences are going to be terminal for many species. Beyond those already destroyed.

"According to the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, there are currently 539 plant and animal species at risk in Canada."
"Another 13 species are already extinct.":(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinct_animals_of_the_United_States

That's scary.
Click to expand...

I would not necessary put any faith into whatever is posted at Wikipedia. There is a lot of BS there.

On the other hand, species die out all the time and we discover new ones all the time too. It's the cycle of life.
 
EdWort said:
I would not necessary put any faith into whatever is posted at Wikipedia. There is a lot of BS there.

On the other hand, species die out all the time and we discover new ones all the time too. It's the cycle of life.
Click to expand...
If you follow the trail in this case you'll find it's not BS.

You aren't going to find new species of burrowing owls, right whales and other large animals. The majority of new species are being found in remote places unaccessed until recently by humans. Now that we have access, these species will no doubt be at risk too...

What's going on isn't the cycle of life, it's destruction of life - plain and simple. Erase a life form and it is gone forever.
 
EdWort said:
I would not necessary put any faith into whatever is posted at Wikipedia. There is a lot of BS there.

On the other hand, species die out all the time and we discover new ones all the time too. It's the cycle of life.
Click to expand...

No, that information mr x posted is actually accurate. Not BS.

And new species aren't being 'created' all the time, unfortunately. It's just that we are discovering 'old' ones that we weren't previously aware of. Very different thing. To state that a cycle is occurring would mean that new species are replacing the old ones, which definitely isn't the case. In fact, we are seeing an unprecedented rate (speed) of loss of species, and there is no doubt that humans are the major cause.

There is actually very little (if any) controversy about the loss of species and its cause in the scientific community, unlike global warming. Unfortunately, though, issues like global warming capture all the attention, so the average Joe never hears about our worldwide crisis regarding loss of species diversity.
 
Interesting.


Arctic climate change has happened before?
D.C. resident John Lockwood was conducting research at the Library of Congress and came across an intriguing Page 2 headline in the Nov. 2, 1922 edition of The Washington Post: "Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt."

The 1922 article, obtained by Inside the Beltway, goes on to mention "great masses of ice have now been replaced by moraines of earth and stones," and "at many points well-known glaciers have entirely disappeared."

"This was one of several such articles I have found at the Library of Congress for the 1920s and 1930s," says Mr. Lockwood. "I had read of the just-released NASA estimates, that four of the 10 hottest years in the U.S. were actually in the 1930s, with 1934 the hottest of all."
Click to expand...


Red faces at NASA over climate-change blunder

In the United States, the calendar year 1998 ranked as the hottest of them all – until someone checked the math.

After a Toronto skeptic tipped NASA this month to one flaw in its climate calculations, the U.S. agency ordered a full data review.

Days later, it put out a revised list of all-time hottest years. The Dust Bowl year of 1934 now ranks as hottest ever in the U.S. – not 1998.
Click to expand...
 
Yep, Global Warming, the next religion, designed by AlGore to tax your money, change how you live, and control your life.

Taking a solar cycle and turning it into a power grab scam.

I see nothing wrong in conservation, recycling, and being a good steward, but don't tell me how to run my life, don't tell me how to spend my money, and don't piss on my head and tell me it's global warming causing it to rain.

These freaks are going nuts because they are being called on the carpet since "consensus" is not science and even the science is being debunked as fraudulent.

Now you have congressmen wanting to charge you a carbon tax if you get a mortgage on a house over 3,000 square feet. What morons, but if left unchallenged, that is exactly what will happen.
 
Donasay said:
How much do you think major breweries contribute to global warming? I know regulation of CO2 is coming in the future, and that brewing produces a lot of it. Does anyone have any exact numbers about the extent of CO2 produced by major breweries? I mean they have to be pumping out more than most factories right?
Click to expand...

Whatever it is, it's got to be less than what AlGore spouts when he talks and passes gas while jetting all over the world to accept accolades for his great scheme to force people to change how they live while increasing taxes to pay for this nonsense. Of course the while the Goracle continues his extravagant lifestyle and does not practice what hes preaching.

Do as I say, not as I do hypocrite.
 
John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel on Global Warming.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of lifelong expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a nonevent, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped.

The sky is not falling. All natural cycles, drifts in climate are as much, if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next 20 years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend."
 
EdWort said:
John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel on Global Warming.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of lifelong expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a nonevent, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped.

The sky is not falling. All natural cycles, drifts in climate are as much, if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next 20 years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend."
Click to expand...

You are right Mr. Weatherman, I don't believe you. Not just because when I hear the word liberal, I tend to tune out whatever is being said. But because numerous points are factually incorrect. Unless this was stated in the 1950's, I don't see how anyone with any sort of scientific background can believe these statements.
 
Vermicous said:
You are right Mr. Weatherman, I don't believe you. Not just because when I hear the word liberal, I tend to tune out whatever is being said. But because numerous points are factually incorrect. Unless this was stated in the 1950's, I don't see how anyone with any sort of scientific background can believe these statements.
Click to expand...

This new research is kind of bunk. Once upon a time it was recorded that the medieval period had a significant warming period. The latest research ommits this warmer than usual period. Also wasnt it in the 30 and 40s they thought we were going to be starting a new ice age?
 
Vermicous said:
Unless this was stated in the 1950's, I don't see how anyone with any sort of scientific background can believe these statements.
Click to expand...

Interesting, but when a bunch of politically motivated scientists decide to agree on something and say it is so simply by consensus, but without proven facts, we're supposed to take it at face value? That's what the Goralcle wants and he is working hard to stifle dissenting opinion and even when the facts prove him wrong multiple times in his propaganda film. AlGore thinks the debate is over and the world will end if we don't change the way we live.
 
Donasay said:
How much do you think major breweries contribute to global warming? I know regulation of CO2 is coming in the future, and that brewing produces a lot of it. Does anyone have any exact numbers about the extent of CO2 produced by major breweries? I mean they have to be pumping out more than most factories right?
Click to expand...

I bet the biggest factor to global warming is the sun. Do you know the average temperature of the sun over the last 4.54 billion years? And since the sun's temperature flucuate, what rise and fall of the solar temperature affects the earth?

Now I'm not saying that the temperature isn't rising, but I'm not saying it is. But let's be reasonable. If I gave you all the weather data we have can you predict the exact weather for yesterday? All I'm saying is there is probably more than one million factors. Do I purposely waste stuff...No.
 
Edwort you are spot on about Al Gore. Biggest Hypocrit on the planet. The man uses more energy at his mansion in Tennessee than 10 or so average families. Even when taking into consideration the size of the house he still uses way more than the average person.

That said about his Hypocracy, I still think his message has validity. I just would rather hear if from someone that practices what they preach.
 
If global warming is caused by mankind, then how can we account for the ice ages ??

How did all that ice melt ?

Detroit ?
 
I'm so damn sick of fear mongering scare tactics: global warming, war on Terror etc..... The Jury is still out, and will be for a long time. There is no dissent that average temps are going up, however, there is no credible proof (nor may there aver be), that we have a lot to do with it.

Basic social science: A population in fear is easier to control.

Besides, aren't we all having this discussion as we sip on a albeit tasty, but alas proven poison?
 
If i am not wrong a lot of bigger breweries with the equipment and capacity, recycle their C02 also (c02 from fermentation used for carbonation), so they actually aren't waisting as much as you would think


CHeers
 
srm775 said:
No, because humans don't create CO2, we just filter it out and don't utilize it.
Click to expand...

Humans create CO2. Its a byproduct of metabolizing glucose and other sugars. The whole cycle is carbon neutral (plants take in CO2, convert it to starches and sugars, we eat the plants and turn it back into CO2) and so has no impact on the overall CO2 level.
 
I don't think there is any real debate on the fact that we are making global warming worse. There is definitely debate on whether it is natural caused or what.....but why not help? What is helping lower the factors that pollute and disrupt the natural balance of the earth going to hurt? We can take steps to curb this without crippling our economy.
 
I don't think it's the major breweries that are the biggest culprits, there are numerous other industries that contribute CO2 and greenhouse gases.
But I think people should try reduce their impact, be it small or large.
 
Virtuous said:
This new research is kind of bunk. Once upon a time it was recorded that the medieval period had a significant warming period. The latest research ommits this warmer than usual period. Also wasnt it in the 30 and 40s they thought we were going to be starting a new ice age?
Click to expand...



That was as recently as the late 80s. More reason to realize that these "experts" really don't have a clue and all they really want is to keep up the scare tactics so they can have more grant money.
 
jacobyhale said:
I don't think there is any real debate on the fact that we are making global warming worse. There is definitely debate on whether it is natural caused or what.....but why not help? What is helping lower the factors that pollute and disrupt the natural balance of the earth going to hurt? We can take steps to curb this without crippling our economy.
Click to expand...

There's no debate because there is no proof. If "man made global warming" is true. How come Mars' temperature is rising as well?
 
Ehh... right.

The Sun has a hot cycle of 11 years. The end of the last cycle was in 2002, that means that 2002 would have been the year where the average temperature on Earth would have been the highest since 1993. Funny how we're now in the lower part of the cycle and how the NASA (you know those guys with all the money and the best scientests on Earth, they went to the Moon and Mars...) said that this year is the worst in terms of the thickness of the Arctic Ice caps. But of course, just cause you bring a few (dozen) men to the Moon and back, you don't know sh** about using satellite imagery to calculate the volume of an ice cap. I mean, it's such hard science compared to building a full-bodied suit that can resist -280F (on the Moon) and ceramic tiles that can withstand near 3000F temperatures on reentry of the atmosphere... They know how to do all the different kinds of physics, but they can't do simple math to calculate the volume of an ice cap...

The biggest problem I have with this subject is how it is usually called. "Global warming" makes everybody think it's going to be warmer everywhere, and then people say "there's now freezing temps in Florida"... Well see, the more accurate term is "Climate change", because in some instances, the affect it will have on the temperature will be unpredictable.

I have one question though: What made America so great? Well, they were fed up with how the Brits were doing things in England and said "We're gonna make a better country". I could call that a "liberal" idea if I ever heard one. They did make a great country, but maybe too great. There's a French expression "Nombril du monde", which means "Navel of the world". Although the USA may have had a that title in the past, the "If something is there I can use it, since I'm human and no one else on Earth needs it" (think of forests transformed into farm land and cities). While that was a good technique when we were fighting for our survival, not very many people in Occident need to fight for their survival, or it's a reverse fight (being so fat you have to fight to slim down so that you don't die).

I love the anglo-saxon idea "We must discover everything" There aren't a lot of other ethnicities that have such and ideology. The only problem is, once you have discovered something, you don't even use the knowledge you've gain towards any purpose.

By the way, I'm not saying Al Gore isn't a hypocrite.

Also, for those still sceptical, you are entirely allowed you're opinion, that's fine, but please at least read these two articles from the IPCC:
Roles of the IPCC
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf

and to understand the greenhouse effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
 
NASA admits error in gobal warming data only after someone else found it and pointed it out.

http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0817-nasa_snafu.html

Here in Atlanta the data is based on flawed data collected at ATL airport.

As an example when the official reporting center at ATL report temps as high as
42* F. I am less than 20 miles away and am regularly scraping frost off my winsheld unless I'm sadly mistaken water freezes at 32*F or less.

The largest temp difference was 44*F and I had frost 20 miles away. And this is not California we don't have micro climates down here.

Here on earth life is carbon based if you control carbon, you control life itself, a bureaucrats dream come true.

Maybe gobal warming is happening, maybe it isn't. Maybe we are causing it, maybe we aren't. But how can anyone with a oz. of common sense think the govt can make things better. They can't even deliver disaster relief to huricane victims in a timely manner or secure the borders and that's their main freakin jobs.:mad:

Rant over
 
jacobyhale said:
I don't think there is any real debate on the fact that we are making global warming worse. There is definitely debate on whether it is natural caused or what.....but why not help? What is helping lower the factors that pollute and disrupt the natural balance of the earth going to hurt? We can take steps to curb this without crippling our economy.
Click to expand...

Im with EdWort on this topic...
Im in a position dealing with the weather and have many scientific contacts in Gov't and Universities that study GW. Here is a quick excerpt from a friend who WAS on the IPCC:
"Mother Nature simply operates at a level of complexity that is, at this point, beyond the mastery of mere mortals (such as scientists) and the tools available to us. As my high-school physics teacher admonished us in those we-shall-conquer-the-world-with-a-slide-rule days, "Begin all of your scientific pronouncements with 'At our present level of ignorance, we think we know . . .'"

"Suppose you are very serious about making a dent in carbon emissions and could replace about 10% of the world's energy sources with non-CO2-emitting nuclear power by 2020 -- roughly equivalent to halving U.S. emissions. Based on IPCC-like projections, the required 1,000 new nuclear power plants would slow the warming by about 0.2 degrees Fahrenheit per century. It's a dent. But what is the economic and human price, and what is it worth given the scientific uncertainty?


Nuff said...
 
Wow...the founder of the weather channel.....

Does that make Oral Roberts God's personal advisor because he started the religeous channel?

It is OK to hate Al Gore, but to deny global warming because you don't like Al Gore is about the most politically minded thing that I have ever heard.

Glacier National park has 5 or 6 glaciers left...there were 50-60 of them in the forties.

The ice that has melted at the caps will not "grow" back unless there is an ice age. The ocean and land that are now exposed after thousands of years are darker than the snow and therefore absorb more heat from the sun, melting more snow and so on and so forth.

Did you fail to notice the drought in Atlanta?

Some people need to flip it over to the discovery channel once in a while. Oh wait! Al gore or some other weather channel hating democrat probably runs the discovery channel, right?
 
We encourage the growth of plants and yeast. Also, homebrewers recycle bottles and don't use cans so we create far less waste. Many brewers convert their spent grain into mulch or fertilizer. Brewing also produces DMS, a bio-gas crucial for biogeochemical cyles.
 
EdWort said:
John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel on Global Warming.

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minutes documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of lifelong expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a nonevent, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped.

The sky is not falling. All natural cycles, drifts in climate are as much, if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next 20 years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend."
Click to expand...

Wow. Weathermen are never wrong. This changes my thougts on everything.
 
The Earth is warmer than it has been in most of recorded history right now. However there is very little proof that CO2 is to blame. There is a multitude of other factors. However, these other factors don't get as much grant money, so CO2 is the bad guy of the time. Global Warming is definitely as much political as it is scientific. If not more so. And that is unfortunate. If these types of things were kept out of the governments hands, there may be some actual unbiased work being done.

The fact of the matter is though that the Earth is warmer, there is very little to dispute that. Using less energy is likely one small way of combating that. Most people in the United States can find a way to cut energy costs.
 
cubbies said:
The Earth is warmer than it has been in most of recorded history right now. However there is very little proof that CO2 is to blame. There is a multitude of other factors. However, these other factors don't get as much grant money, so CO2 is the bad guy of the time. Global Warming is definitely as much political as it is scientific. If not more so. And that is unfortunate. If these types of things were kept out of the governments hands, there may be some actual unbiased work being done.

The fact of the matter is though that the Earth is warmer, there is very little to dispute that. Using less energy is likely one small way of combating that. Most people in the United States can find a way to cut energy costs.
Click to expand...

Hear hear! Believing in global warming does not make you a democrat.
 
abracadabra said:
They can't even deliver disaster relief to huricane victims in a timely manner....
Click to expand...
Substitute "didn't" for "can't" and I'll agree with that sentence. Of course they could have, they chose not to. It's the sort of foul-up that happens when you appoint an old buddy to lead an emergency response agency as political payback.
 

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