confusion after reading & asking too much

Good morning, all.

My original intent was to use the "crash course" recipe in Palmer's book, but the staff in the brew store steered me away from that. They said I needed to start simple.

On Monday, I started my first brew, a Coopers Australian Pale Ale. It's a pre-hopped mix.

The recipe can be found here: recipe. I don't think it could be more vague if someone tried.

The store that I shopped at didn't have the Brew Enhancer 2 called for in the recipe, but she did give me a 3 pound package of malt to use (of which I used ~2.2 pounds).

It's been bubbling away nicely in the plastic primary and the bubbling has slowed WAY down. In Palmer's book, he recommends about two weeks to bottling. However, I've been reading about racking into a second (glass) primary at some point.

Like most things that are art, there's more than one way to defur a feline. When I started, I hoped to just follow a single recipe to completion - now I'm out wandering in the wilderness.

Any input would be appreciated... and next time, I'm going to stick to my guns and my shopping list.

Damn brew stores... they are hit and miss...
Well as far as your current batch, don't worry, it sounds like it's fine. The malt is better than the booster pack.

Did you boil the malt at all?

You can rack to a secondary to condition the beer before bottling, but it's not necessary... especially if you are not dry hopping your beer...

Step 1: Relax! You're doing fine. Things are bubbling, which means that the yeast is happily doing what it knows how to do.

There is no particular need to rack to a secondary. You can if you want, but many find it to be an unneccessary complication. If you can, resist the urge to bottle and wait three weeks minimum.

Did you get a hydrometer with your kit? If not, you should pick one up. Make sure the gravity is done dropping before you bottle. It is also quite useful to get the starting gravity (S.G.) - knowledge is power after all. How else are you going to get the alcohol content?

In all likelyhood, you will end up with good beer at the end of the process. Still, it is best to regard it as a learning experience, laying the groundwork for future greatness. Things you read now, will make more sense when you read them again later with some experience under your belt.

Enjoy!

BeerJorge said:

Damn brew stores... they are hit and miss...
Well as far as your current batch, don't worry, it sounds like it's fine. The malt is better than the booster pack.

Did you boil the malt at all?

You can rack to a secondary to condition the beer before bottling, but it's not necessary... especially if you are not dry hopping your beer...

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Yessir... I boiled the water for the malt & the dry malt extract. Somehow, I didn't make the connection between the malt powder and malted milk balls until I opened the bag and smelled it! LOL

i agree with no need to rack to secondary. some people like it, many dont. I say dont waste the time nor the (VERY slim) chance on infection from not being sanitary.

ken914 said:

Yessir... I boiled the water for the malt & the dry malt extract. Somehow, I didn't make the connection between the malt powder and malted milk balls until I opened the bag and smelled it! LOL

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LOL... love whoppers...

ken914 said:

Somehow, I didn't make the connection between the malt powder and malted milk balls until I opened the bag and smelled it! LOL

Click to expand...

During prohibition the Coors brewery of Golden, Colorado, stayed open by making malted milk. They have a neat tour and a lot of history there, if anyone ever is near Denver and has an afternoon to spend.

frazier said:

Step 1: Relax! You're doing fine. Things are bubbling, which means that the yeast is happily doing what it knows how to do.

There is no particular need to rack to a secondary. You can if you want, but many find it to be an unneccessary complication. If you can, resist the urge to bottle and wait three weeks minimum.

Did you get a hydrometer with your kit? If not, you should pick one up. Make sure the gravity is done dropping before you bottle. It is also quite useful to get the starting gravity (S.G.) - knowledge is power after all. How else are you going to get the alcohol content?

In all likelyhood, you will end up with good beer at the end of the process. Still, it is best to regard it as a learning experience, laying the groundwork for future greatness. Things you read now, will make more sense when you read them again later with some experience under your belt.

Enjoy!

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Good morning, Frazier!

Relax... got it. ;-)

I have a hydrometer from my wine making kit... in fact, a good part of my gear is scavenged from my wine stuff. I jotted down the SG when I started the process... it went into my notebook.

Thanks for the reassurances!

Sounds like your brew got in to the fermenter OK so let's move on from there...

1. I'd keep the beer in the primary fermenter for 3-4 weeks, this allows for a clearer, more mature beer. The yeast get the chance to clean up any off-flavors they've created during active fermentation and the trub drops to the bottom of the fermenter to create a nice compact cake.

2. After that 3-4 weeks you can rack your beer to the bottling bucket (You've got one of those right?), and bulk prime your beer. You'll boil your priming sugar in around 1 cup of water for 10-15 minutes then siphon (not pour or dump) the beer on top of it creating a little whirlpool to mix it all together nicely.

3. Clean and sanitize all of your bottles then proceed to bottle and cap your beer. Put these in a warm location (70F is ideal) and allow them to carb up for 2-3 weeks, when you're ready to try one chill it for 48 hours in the fridge. This allows for the CO2 created by the yeast to drop back in to the beer and gives you a nicely carbonated beer to enjoy.

4. DECANT your beer in to a glass leaving the last 1/4" or so in the bottom of the bottle, that's yeast and it'll give you the farts like nothing else on this planet!

At least, that's what I'd do... ...

It sounds like a plan... but can you describe the "then siphon (not pour or dump) the beer on top of it creating a little whirlpool to mix it all together nicely" a bit more?

thanks!

Siphon the beer using a racking cane & piece of tubing or the almighty Auto-Siphon, this way you don't oxidize your beer. When you start the siphon move the bottom piece of tubing so it swirls the beer around in the bottling bucket, this helps to mix up the priming sugar solution you've dumped in the bottom.

Links/videos are provided to help out...

I dont think they steered you wrong Ken. Those Coopers kits make some
fine beer with malt added. I have some of the Autralian Pale ale fermenting
now. It's an easy way to get started and get your process down before
moving on. Be leary of the directions on those canned kits as they make it
sound too simple and leave out some important details. You have a way to
control the fermentation temps? It gets hot down here, I work in Anniston,AL BTW.

ken914 said:

It sounds like a plan... but can you describe the "then siphon (not pour or dump) the beer on top of it creating a little whirlpool to mix it all together nicely" a bit more?

thanks!

Click to expand...

You want to avoid oxidation and also get a good mix with the sugar.

If the boiled sugar is in the bottom of the bucket, then you use your siphon and hose to transfer from your fermenter to your bottling bucket. Since the sugar water is already on the bottom of the bucket, you should get good mixing. The siphon hose flow should be aimed to the bottom of the bucket (preferably under the surface of the liquid) so as to create a kind of "swirl" effect while avoiding splashing as much as possible.

The "whirlpool" mixes the beer and the sugar, and the non-splashing minimizes oxidation. That's the point.

My wort has 2.5 weeks of aging in the primary... I'm starting to get impatient. Considering moving it into a glass carboy... but maybe that's just my desire to mess with it. Is there any value in re-racking it off of the lees?

I still need to get/make a bottling bucket.

ken914 said:

My wort has 2.5 weeks of aging in the primary... I'm starting to get impatient. Considering moving it into a glass carboy... but maybe that's just my desire to mess with it. Is there any value in re-racking it off of the lees?

I still need to get/make a bottling bucket.

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Leave it be, I let all mine sit a minimum of 3 weeks. It gives the yeast time to clean up their messes & you get a more compact yeast cake. Wait until you have that bottling bucket, then rack. Usually I move my fermenter on top of my chest freezer the day before bottling to avoid stirring up any sediment.

Couple of observations.

There's no shame in using a pre-hopped kit. I've done all grain, and my wife and I still use the pre-hopped kits from time to time. Sometime I just don't have the time to mess with all grain. Couple of points:

1) Pre-hopped kits are not designed to be boiled. Boiling them cooks off the hop aroma.

all you need is to heat water in a tea kettle, use the water to rinse off the malt from the can. Stir it in the fermentor to dissolve the malt and then top up with cold water. This usually gets us pretty close to pitching temps.

2) Racking to a secondary is optional.

ken914 said:

It sounds like a plan... but can you describe the "then siphon (not pour or dump) the beer on top of it creating a little whirlpool to mix it all together nicely" a bit more?

thanks!

Click to expand...

You want to get yourself an auto siphon to move the beer from the fermenter to the bottling bucket. That way you won't oxygenate the beer too much.

Putting the suger/water solution in the bottling bucket first ensures there is enough sugar mixed into the beer for the yeast to carbonate the bottles.

Just a heads up...I struggled with quite a few batches using a regular racking cane. What I mean by struggled is that I would loose siphon a couple times during the racking and would have to restart the suction each time I lost it. This was very frustrating and a big pain. It is VERY worth it to spend the 15 bucks give or take to buy the auto siphon. After I bought and used it I kicked myself for not purchasing it sooner. It makes racking SO MUCH EASIER.

brian_g said:

There's no shame in using a pre-hopped kit.

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Shame, no. Sub-optimal beer, I feel yes.

The pre-hopped kits have, in my relatively thin experience, poor hop flavor and aroma, but good bitterness. All well and good, but if you are sharing the beer with someone who doesn't care for bitter beers (*ahem* SWMBO *ahem*), then the pre-hopped kits can be a bit unpleasant.

If you like a hoppy beer, dry-hopping or something a bit would probably make for a better result... as for me, I just won't buy pre-hopped kits anymore.

My opinion only.

Palmer has since made some changes in the book since the online versions, including his explanation of Ibus, and his ideas about using a secondary.

Just like any book, things change with the time. The problem has been, since the online edition is so readily available and we recommend it so often here, people think the info is "gospel" and don't know that it's been changed in later editions in light of new knowledge and science.

It's a great start, but forums like this and on podcasts are where you hear the most state of the art info on brewing. If someone like papazian or palmer so much as farts new info, more than likely one of us has heard the podcast and will post before the gas even clears in the studio. Plus many of our brewers on here are in the forefront of beer knowlege, and have appeared on podcasts or in Byo or Zymurgy magazine.

Here's the stuff on IBU's that pretty much contradict what he originally wrote.

Basic Brewing Thursday, March 20, 2008 4:30 PM
John Palmer, author of How to Brew, shares information from a conference that challenged his concept of what defines an International Bitterness Unit (IBU). Click to listen, MP-3

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And here's a thread with his changing of his views on secondaries, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/ though as you can see, STILL some old dogs can't be taught new tricks.

brian_g said:

Couple of observations.

There's no shame in using a pre-hopped kit. I've done all grain, and my wife and I still use the pre-hopped kits from time to time. Sometime I just don't have the time to mess with all grain.

Click to expand...

+1,0000

It is not uncommon for a lot of people to slam Cooper's and other "kit and Kilo" kits (including mr beer) they have a reputation (mostly by people who never even tried them, or who tried them on their first brew, but didn't have a good brewing PROCESS nailed down yet, and blamed the kit for their making bad beer.)

But for al the negative press, Cooper's is STILL the most successful beer kit manufacurer in the world. And one of the only few who that actually comes from a brewery, and is representative of their product line of bottled beers.

Just aim to make the best damn beer you can, and be happy!

FYI, Here's a great article from Oz.Craftbrewer.com, on how to make the best beer with cooper's kits...It's from Australia, the home of coopers, and from the craftbrewer radio guys.

Improving Your Kit

Justibone said:

Shame, no. Sub-optimal beer, I feel yes.

The pre-hopped kits have, in my relatively thin experience, poor hop flavor and aroma, but good bitterness. All well and good, but if you are sharing the beer with someone who doesn't care for bitter beers (*ahem* SWMBO *ahem*), then the pre-hopped kits can be a bit unpleasant.

If you like a hoppy beer, dry-hopping or something a bit would probably make for a better result... as for me, I just won't buy pre-hopped kits anymore.

My opinion only.

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I think it depends on what style your looking for. Not all styles accent hop flavor and aroma. Cooper's wheat beer, for example, is one of our favorite beers. It true it's not high in hop flavor, but it's not too bitter either. But it's not supposed to have a lot of hop flavor either.

If we compare apples to apple, I will agree that the cooper's IPA doesn't have the hop flavor and aroma that you'd get from Two-hearted or Dogfish Head IPAs. If that's the only style you like, you will be disappointed.

brian_g said:

I think it depends on what style your looking for. Not all styles accent hop flavor and aroma.

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Agreed. I would give the Cooper's wheat a shot.