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Whats the scoop Yuri?
Is this going to be a problem for our jocks?
[youtube]EgdhjJfeLqs[/youtube]

[youtube]tik_udvymVY[/youtube]
 
Nice videos!!!

The F-22 is quite certainly superior, though. It was built with a far greater budget, more recent technology, and under more stable management.

The F-22 is extremely maneuverable, making it a formidable short range adversary, while its technology and missiles make it extremely capable in the long range arena.
 
Thanks for your response. My layman's assumptions about long vs short range were confirmed by your post and so to that... USA USA USA. When we know its on = game over.

I guess my thoughts about the advantage of these planes is they will be in some sort of harassment mode where the goal is provocation. This seems to be the tactic d'jour of a smaller airforce or even a larger inexperiences one like China. I think we have an example of that with the Hainan collision (although the collision was not the expected outcome).
 
Yuri is correct on most everything-

PRoblems with the F22-
When its radar is on searching it broadcast its position.
The f22 takes a minimum of 2hrs to launch if its not on alert status.
Simple Wireless networking issues have grounded entire squadrons.
They cost 300 million per plane and are not easy or cheap to maintain.
 
Also these planes were "put into" a show state. those pilots seemed to know where their plane was and how it would pull out. I say great job!
 
Actually, I am personally not a huge proponent of the F-22 because of its impact on the USAF budget. It's certainly a very capable airplane, and the technology behind it is amazing!
 
it would be cooler if we went back to the warbirds of wwII... i don't like all this jet and missle stuff.
 
uglygoat said:
it would be cooler if we went back to the warbirds of wwII... i don't like all this jet and missile stuff.
I have no idea how many times I've sat around the squadron having the "wouldn't it be cool to have lived 75 years ago?" conversation.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
They cost 300 million per plane and are not easy or cheap to maintain.
This one's hard to defensively answer. The Russians consistently beat us in terms of cost and simplicity. Simplicity is both an advantage and a disadvantage. A simple aircraft requires simple maintenance, but a simple aircraft has simple systems that may put it at a tactical disadvantage in the sky.

If I may throw my two cents in, $300 million is a drop in the bucket when you consider our entire defense budget. Few people understand that our brains are not wired to understand large numbers (anything over 150 and we start to have a hard time) since we rarely encounter a physical manifestation of that number (ever seen 300 million of anything in one place). This is why newspapers are able to make splashy headlines whenever large numbers are involved.

If you consider that we are currently spending anywhere between $150M and $250M per day in Iraq (depending on who you listen to), $300M for a top-line aircraft that will last 20? years (someone correct me if I am wrong here) really isn't that much in the large scheme of things.

Side Note: Thanks to Yuri for the original breakdown on this, very interesting stuff.
 
Yuri_Rage

Cool- your really into the AF. Ive lost a lot of fait watching all the inside underhanded crap that goes on.

F22 while impressive is too expensive, too complicated and doesnt deliver a performance advantage worthy of its price tag.

The JSF /F35 does everything the F22 does for 1/10th the cost and even has VTOL capabilities.

F22 is just some 4 stars shiny new toy and even if it was a giant turd would be rammed down the AF throat at a huge cost to the American Tax payers
 
TheJadedDog

300 mil times 250 planes. Lockheed didnt even have to invest thier own money in R&D over that last 15 years. The AF has paid billions for that.
 
Yuri,

What about the F-30 (just saw above post... maybe it's F-35?)? Any thoughts on it compared to this and the F-22?

I was watching something a few nights ago that mentioned this new class of fighter. Obviously there were no specifics other than it costs much less than the F22 to produce.

Pardon my civilian ignorance. :D
 
TheJadedDog said:
If I may throw my two cents in, $300 million is a drop in the bucket when you consider our entire defense budget...

...$300M for a top-line aircraft that will last 20? years (someone correct me if I am wrong here) really isn't that much in the large scheme of things.
The defense budget is a big, complex, ugly animal, and I don't know enough to comment much further here.
 
Cool videos!

Yuri - How many G's are they pulling at the bottom of those loops? Looks rugged.

They seem to be doing a lot of 'slow flopping around'. This looks like a cool trick but what is the combat application?
 
Plus- the F22 is designed for a war we will in all likely hood never see. How well has the F22 performed against terrorism? The insurgents?

Its a hugely expensive saber for the AF to rattle at no one.
 
Yuri - How many G's are they pulling at the bottom of those loops? Looks rugged.
Generally, not many G's. As you mention it's a lot of slow speed, low (kinetic) energy maneuvering. Some of the harder turns probably approach 9 G's, but most of it is likely a bit less - 3-5 G's perhaps.

Here's a quick and very dirty lesson in BFM (basic fighter maneuvering). The classic visual fight involves a lot of "turn circle" geometry - aligning an aircraft's turn with an adversary aircraft's turn through the use of speed (rate of closure), offset turn circles, and increasing/decreasing rate and radius maneuvers. The goal of all of this geometry is to gain an offensive advantage behind the adversary with the end state being, "in plane, in range, and with lead" to take a shot. However, when an aircraft can literally pivot on its own lateral axis, the "classic fight" is thrown out the window. Any aircraft incapable of such maneuvers will quickly find itself outclassed and probably in a smoking hole.

This thread has really been enjoyable. Thank you all for keeping things very civil, though there are obviously some topics that could cause a lot of controversy and heated emotions. Let's try and keep things lighthearted and fun!
 
Im alfor developing Tech- However the Military and congress allow private companies to wring out every dollar to thier share holders.

WW2 Congress told manufactures that good money will be paid for results. Now Congress pays good money to who ever gives them the most votes/campaign funds.

Realistically we should have something that far outclasses the F22 if the russians have something thats compareable. Also The chinese have way more ability to cripple America economically rather than all out war.

We also should have a good space program. With space tech ground tech grows exponetially. But its not as profitable.

My big beef is the expense of personnel and good judgement has led to the AF sucking its own wind hoping congress will bail it out for its own stupidity. The only reason the AF remains a solid fighting force is the Enlisted men and women who despite horride General officers continue to do thier job. *Pilots also do awesome*.

I see they elected to make Cannon SOC- Abandon all hope! lol Ever been stationed elsewhere?
 
I was only able to go to Biloxi, Osan, Elmenorf, Baghdad, Kuwait and soon to be Baghram.

I left AD for the Guard and found that we end up doing 50% of AD missions with 1/8th the funding and personnel. However I love it and its renewed my faith in the AF at least with the AK Air Guard.

I have a few friends at Holloman- they hate it. But the friends at Cannon want to kill themselves every day.
 
MikeFlynn74 said:
Also The chinese have way more ability to cripple America economically rather than all out war.

:off: This is a really good point, good thing they are just as dependent on us economically as we are on them, just in a different way.

Back on topic, thanks Yuri for the great info. It is really nice to hear from someone who knows something about what is happening "on the ground" with the Military.

Thanks also for all you do! I for one appreciate the sacrifice you make for all of us. Same goes for anyone else in the Military who might be reading this thread.
 

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