Dry hopping: Primary vs. secondary

I'm looking to dry hop an IPA I brewed last week, so I thought I'd check online for some more info. There seems to be a couple different schools of thought, would somebody be willing to share with the advantages and disadvantages of dry hopping in the primary vs. the secondary?

Advantage of primary is you didn't waste your time and risk of oxygenation and infection by using a secondary. I'd only consider a secondary if I wasn't going to keg the beer (I dry hop most beers in the keg) and I wanted to keep the yeast. Another thought is that IIRC it is ideal to dry hop right at the tail end of fermentation so the CO2 can scrub out any introduced oxygen or something like that, so dry hopping in the keg like I do is not necessarily the best thing, just works for me being lazy.

Each method provides very equal results if your procedure is sound. Let your yeast drop out of suspension and avoid agitating the carboy at all costs prior to bottling.

Sometimes racking to secondary is not an option due to headspace issues so dryhopping in the primary IS your only option. I add pellets without a bag, which eventually drop to the bottom. I feel this is the best way to dryhop in the primary.

I think jamil zainasheff suggests only dry hopping for 5-7 days or else the taste is grassy.
So when I dry hop, I add it to the fermetoer 5-7 days before racking. The pellets just sink into the trub by the time I'm ready to rack.

As for risk of infection, the primary fermentation is complete, and the top is cracked open and the pellets poured in.
The risk seems minimal.

arclight said:

i think jamil zainasheff suggests only dry hopping for 5-7 days or else the taste is grassy.
So when i dry hop, i add it to the fermetoer 5-7 days before racking. The pellets just sink into the trub by the time i'm ready to rack.

As for risk of infection, the primary fermentation is complete, and the top is cracked open and the pellets poured in.
The risk seems minimal.

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+1

If the purpose of dry hopping is to increase aroma (or flavor) of the hops....

I have seen it mentioned a few times here, that the optimum route for doing so is to chill your wort to around 190 degrees (give or take 10 degrees), and THEN pour your aroma hops in. Wait for 10 minutes, then continue chilling.

From what my friend's mother has taught me about cooking.... putting things on full blast/boil isn't the best way to bring out flavor / aroma. So I have reason to believe this 10 minutes at 190 degree theory is correct. I've also seen it mentioned that this is the method Sierra Nevada uses.... and they by far have the hoppiest damn beer I can enjoy.

If you are going to dry hop in the primary it works best if you can cold crash first. It will drop out a lot of yeast. Warm it back up to 60-70 F for dry hopping. Apparently the yeast can absorb some of the hop oil so you want as little yeast as possible for maximum hop impact.

I primary for 4 weeks and I have dry hopped anywhere from 7-14 days. Just depends on when I get around to adding them. I have never had any problem adding them in primary. I use leaf hops in a hop sock. I have also dry hopped in the keg for 3-4 months and had no grassy flavors. Either primary or secondary will work fine.

Tossed the hops in a few days ago. Still smells ok, but is it supposed to look like this?



Didn't cold crash it before hand due to lack of fridge space

STLExpat said:

Tossed the hops in a few days ago. Still smells ok, but is it supposed to look like this?

View attachment 64251

Didn't cold crash it before hand due to lack of fridge space

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Not if it got that way after dry hopping...unless the liquid is higher than it looks.

STLExpat said:

Tossed the hops in a few days ago. Still smells ok, but is it supposed to look like this?

Didn't cold crash it before hand due to lack of fridge space

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Is that the primary? If so that's fine. Also if you transferred onto those hops sometimes the thick hops sludge sticks to the top before it spreads out and drops through the beer. Rdwhahb

I like to rack to secondary when I dry hop. I've used whole leaf hops in a bag, and pellets.

I understand the added risk of making it oxidized and all that good stuff, but I've found that pretty hard to do if you are careful and use a siphon. Cleaning a secondary isn't that hard, and I have found that, again- depending on your racking skills, can help clear your beer..

Plus, I like to have something to do. I don't have a massive pipeline of beers fermenting, usually something lately, but I like the act of racking the beer. Gives me the opportunity to look at it, learn, taste, test the gravity, and compare and take notes for my brew book.

I always dry hop in primary. I use whole hops in a nylon bag. I usually dry hop from day 9-14 and then bottle.

A+ I only dry hop in the primary so simple no fuss.

i avoid dry hopping in primary. i secondary almost all my beers and i dont want the co2 sending the precious volatiles on their way out of my carboy.

most recent IPA was in primary for 6 days, seconday with dry hop for 14(3oz pellets), then bottle conditioned for 21 days. hop flavor and aroma is amazing (no grassy-ness) and hasnt started to fade out yet, 6 weeks or so after bottling.

When dry hopping in primary you need to wait until the active fermentation is over before adding the hops. I usually do two weeks, dry hop for one week. My beers have been turning over in about three weeks on average.

I have done both primary and secondary (either or, not both in the same batch). I have been of the school of thought that agrees with what Jameel says which is wait for the bubbles to stop so the gas doesn't carry out hop aromas.

I have to say though, after going back and forth, I think that primary dry hopping gives me better flavor. The only thing that I think is to ones advantage to do it in the primary is that the yeast really churn up the beer so you get constant 24/7 mixing where if you do it in the secondary, the hops just settle out (pellets) and aren't really mixed around unless you shake it up.

If you use a hop sock for any kind of hops when dry hopping, do you squeeze the bag when it's pulled from the fermenter? All sanitary precautions taken.

Malthead said:

If you use a hop sock for any kind of hops when dry hopping, do you squeeze the bag when it's pulled from the fermenter? All sanitary precautions taken.

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I've done it dozens of times, with no particular regard for sanitation (I mean I don't do it right after eating a plate of nachos, but I certainly don't try to sanitize my hands) and it works great, never had a problem. That's some good stuff that's soaked up in those hops, and leaf hops hold a ton of beer.

I dry hop with pellets in primary. Dump 'em in, let 'em sit for 3 or 4 days at ambient and then cold crash. At about 7 days the hops have all sunk to the bottom and the beer is cold and ready to keg. When I rack I use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag over the auto siphon, never get any hop particles and I get amazing hop aroma this way.

bottlebomber said:

I've done it dozens of times, with no particular regard for sanitation (I mean I don't do it right after eating a plate of nachos, but I certainly don't try to sanitize my hands) and it works great, never had a problem. That's some good stuff that's soaked up in those hops, and leaf hops hold a ton of beer.

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I just wondered if squeezing the bag would force out unwanted flavors. I'm drinking an IPA right now that I dry hopped with whole leaf and it's nowhere near as hoppy as I expected. I didn't squeeze but noticed there was a whole lot of aroma when I removed the sock.

Think I'll try squeezing next time.

Thanks.

Malthead said:

I just wondered if squeezing the bag would force out unwanted flavors. I'm drinking an IPA right now that I dry hopped with whole leaf and it's nowhere near as hoppy as I expected. I didn't squeeze but noticed there was a whole lot of aroma when I removed the sock.

Think I'll try squeezing next time.

Thanks.

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What type of hops??

Some hops are only bittering hops, while others are aroma hops, and even more cross both lines and are considered all-purpose hops.

grndslm said:

What type of hops??

Some hops are only bittering hops, while others are aroma hops, and even more cross both lines and are considered all-purpose hops.

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I've never heard that before. Why would a hop variety be "only" bittering and another "only" aroma? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you want to use warrior hops for bittering, flavor, aroma, and dryhopping, that's fine. If you want to use saaz for all additions, that's fine too.

I think that some hops are listed as having a purpose, to make buying them easier perhaps, but to say that "some hops are only bittering hops or aroma hops" is ludicrous. That's not true, and it's terribly uninformed.

Yooper said:

I've never heard that before. Why would a hop variety be "only" bittering and another "only" aroma? That doesn't make any sense at all. If you want to use warrior hops for bittering, flavor, aroma, and dryhopping, that's fine. If you want to use saaz for all additions, that's fine too.

I think that some hops are listed as having a purpose, to make buying them easier perhaps, but to say that "some hops are only bittering hops or aroma hops" is ludicrous. That's not true, and it's terribly uninformed.

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He has a point though. Some hops are way more aromatic than others. And IMO a hop like Magnum is almost completely useless for aroma purposes, but it's good for bittering. I don't buy it often because I prefer more versatile high alpha hops like Columbus, Warrior, or Apollo. You can use them anywhere you want with great results.... The reverse is true as well... Sure you could bitter with Amarillo, but it would be a waste to use it for bittering, and strip it of all of it's character, versus using it for it's excellent aroma.

bobbrews said:

He has a point though. Some hops are way more aromatic than others. And IMO a hop like Magnum is almost completely useless for aroma purposes, but it's good for bittering. I don't buy it often because I prefer more versatile high alpha hops like Columbus, Warrior, or Apollo. You can use them anywhere you want with great results.... The reverse is true as well... Sure you could bitter with Amarillo, but it would be a waste to use it for bittering, and strip it of all of it's character, versus using it for it's excellent aroma.

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Well, I guess my problem is with the way it's phrased, as "only bittering" or "only aroma". That's overly simplistic, and honestly not true. If someone is new, and reads that, they'd be terribly misinformed and I wanted to correct that.

The most wonderful German lagers use only "aroma" hops, when you think about it. Smooth and clean noble hops make a great bittering hop, as well as flavor and aroma hops. Maybe some hops don't have great aroma, but it's not that they are "only bittering" hops.

Touché

Throw the hops directly (i.e. no bags, filters, etc.) into Primary right after you pitch the yeast. Let sit in primary for no more than 14 days. Rack to secondary.

The beauty of Primary dry hopping is no dealing with bags, or mess in the secondary. When you racked from primary to secondary, you left the bulk of the solids behind (and what little remains will settle out in secondary).

I use a plastic bucket for primary, and a glass carboy for secondary. Much easier to clean out the hop remnants from the primary bucket than the mess that it leaves in the secondary. And nobody seems convinced that dry hopping during primary vs. secondary has any appreciable difference in taste.

Bottom line: Primary dry hopping works just fine, and the beer is delicious. Anything more complicated is just - well - more complicated. And who wants that.

happychappy said:

Throw the hops directly (i.e. no bags, filters, etc.) into Primary right after you pitch the yeast. Let sit in primary for no more than 14 days. Rack to secondary.

The beauty of Primary dry hopping is no dealing with bags, or mess in the secondary. When you racked from primary to secondary, you left the bulk of the solids behind (and what little remains will settle out in secondary).

I use a plastic bucket for primary, and a glass carboy for secondary. Much easier to clean out the hop remnants from the primary bucket than the mess that it leaves in the secondary. And nobody seems convinced that dry hopping during primary vs. secondary has any appreciable difference in taste.

Bottom line: Primary dry hopping works just fine, and the beer is delicious. Anything more complicated is just - well - more complicated. And who wants that.

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This isn't a great idea because the co2 will drive off the aromatics of the hops. Not to mention hop oils will coat the yeast cell walls making it difficult for them to get things in/out of the cell. Just throw in the dry hops after fermentation has stopped.

Hmmm... Never heard that, even from the pros. Besides, opening up the fermenter mid way thru primary to throw hops in just lets oxygen back in... kinda defeats the purpose of airlock?

happychappy said:

Hmmm... Never heard that, even from the pros. Besides, opening up the fermenter mid way thru primary to throw hops in just lets oxygen back in... kinda defeats the purpose of airlock?

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if you open the fermenter carefully the layer of CO2 on your beer is so much more dense than the air that you won't be letting in much oxygen and what you do let in will float on top of the CO2. Drop the hops carefully so they don't disturb the CO2.

happychappy said:

Hmmm... Never heard that, even from the pros. Besides, opening up the fermenter mid way thru primary to throw hops in just lets oxygen back in... kinda defeats the purpose of airlock?

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From How to Brew:


Hops can also be added to the fermenter for increased hop aroma in the final beer. This is called "dry hopping" and is best done late in the fermentation cycle. If the hops are added to the fermenter while it is still actively bubbling, then a lot of the hop aroma will be carried away by the carbon dioxide. It is better to add the hops (usually about a half ounce per 5 gallons) after bubbling has slowed or stopped and the beer is going through the conditioning phase prior to bottling. The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer.


I'd like to know what pros are putting hops right at the beginning of primary fermentation. I've heard of putting them in a few points above fg which gives good results but definitely not at the beginning. If the yeast is active it will chew up any oxygen.

glad i searched for this info. my plan (according to the advice) is to primary until ferm. stops, wait a few days to be sure, then dump 3oz of pellets into a DIPA. this is due to the equipment i have on hand, that is to say in my normal primary there is a RIS awaiting a cold crash so all i have to primary in is a Better Bottle (6 gal) and i have decided to take the advice:
1) after ferm stops in primary, add hop pellets. no bags, no mesh. dump 'em in.
2) dry hop for about 5 days.
3) cold crash for 3 days @ 35 degrees. then bottle.

sound about right?

te-wa said:

glad i searched for this info. my plan (according to the advice) is to primary until ferm. stops, wait a few days to be sure, then dump 3oz of pellets into a DIPA. this is due to the equipment i have on hand, that is to say in my normal primary there is a RIS awaiting a cold crash so all i have to primary in is a Better Bottle (6 gal) and i have decided to take the advice:
1) after ferm stops in primary, add hop pellets. no bags, no mesh. dump 'em in.
2) dry hop for about 5 days.
3) cold crash for 3 days @ 35 degrees. then bottle.

sound about right?

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Sounds like it will work! I can never seem to get all of the pellets away from the finished beer. This time around I dry hopped with a mix of pellets in a bag and whole cones floating. We'll see how it goes....

cool! i think im gonna use a small mesh bag (like bridal veil fabric) and a hair tie to catch the clumps as they come out of the siphon.

Would cold crashing the yeast before dry hopping mess with your beers ability to carbonate properly once your ready to bottle??

In response to the title of this thread, I usually do both. I found that I get more aroma this way than adding all of the dryhops at once.

Assuming 4 total oz. loose pellet dryhops split into 2 oz. additions:

3-4 days dryhop in primary
5-6 days dryhop in secondary (cold crash w/gelatin last 2-3 days)

When racking from primary to secondary, and then secondary to bottling bucket, wrap a sanitized nylon mesh bag around the auto-siphon to filter out the trub.

EyePeeA said:

When racking from primary to secondary, and then secondary to bottling bucket, wrap a sanitized nylon mesh bag around the auto-siphon to filter out the trub.

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I I tried this once, and the mesh (I used muslin) sack really introduced a lot of air into the auto-siphon... It was quite "bubbly" as it rack into the secondary. I worried about oxidation. Just bottled the beer, though, so I it hasn't conditioned yet. It's only 8 beers (from a one gal batch) though, so it probably won't last long enough to get oxidized off-flavors, I'm hoping...

Getting ready to dry hop my next batch, and am wondering about method. Have decided to just do it in primary, but am wondering if I should just throw them in loose (pellets, 1 oz), or put them in a bag. And if in a bag, should I put sanitized marbles in it so it sinks down? Thanks for any advice...

It wasn't the mesh of the muslin bag that introduced the air, it was the seal of the piston of the autosiphon. The muslin bag was a bit too tight of mesh and it cause the air to be sucked around the piston. One possible solution for this is to put a little water or beer down the opening at the top of the autosiphon so it would improve the seal. Another possibility is to use a nylon or polyester mesh bag as it may let the beer through with less restriction.

RM-MN said:

It wasn't the mesh of the muslin bag that introduced the air, it was the seal of the piston of the autosiphon. The muslin bag was a bit too tight of mesh and it cause the air to be sucked around the piston. One possible solution for this is to put a little water or beer down the opening at the top of the autosiphon so it would improve the seal. Another possibility is to use a nylon or polyester mesh bag as it may let the beer through with less restriction.

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Good call. I do have some 1 gal nylon paint strainer bags that would probably work better than the muslin, then. Thx for the tip...

Too many yeast in suspension, maybe