Inexpensive (but good) reverse osmosis system?

I'm thinking more and more (after something Homercidal said) about getting a home RO water system. I know aquarium stores sell them.

I guess I need to consider the cost, the hassle, and how convenient it would be vs. buying some RO water and/or using slaked lime to drop alkalinity.

My laundry room is my brewery as well. There is very little room under the utility sink, so I guess I need to find out how much room a half-way decent RO system would take up. The waste water could go into the washing machine I assume?

Any thoughts and helpful hints (along with recommendations) would be appreciated!

Keep your eye on aquarium forums, especially saltwater focused ones. That hobby has massive turnover, and great deals are easy to come by, even moreso than in home brewing.

I have kept up on the systems in awhile, so I can't help you there. It's really basic technology though, and comes down more to the filters you use and how often you replace/clean them.

I have been a home RO system for the past 4 months. It has been awesome. The one tip/thing I have to say it keep a dozen 1 gallon water jugs on hand to fill the day before brewing. The tanks on RO systems are only 3 gallons so you wont have a full volume of water on hand at all times. I ordered my RO system from www.bulkreefsupply.com I got for 75 gallon per day RO system with Drinking water tank and faucet. I just changed out my first filter 3 weeks ago and it was pretty easy. Another tip is to make sure and flush the system once a week I have found this prolongs the water getting "stale" for drinking. But if you are just going to be doing RO for brewing you wont have to worry about that.

Yooper, I really like the units at Airwaterice.com. I've got 2 and my parents and friends have bought a few units as well. Make sure you specify you want the Dow Filmtec 75gpd membrane at no additional cost. I really like the permeate pump option as it really cuts down on regen time as well as wastewater.

The forums has spoken highly of buckeyefieldsupply also, but I have no personal experience there.

My friend came over for a visit this weekend an I chatted him up about his new system. They come in a variety of sizes. I think he said he got a 3 gallon tank on his. His advice was to use the empty 2.5 gallon water jugs I had left over from when I bought water from Walmart, and just fill them up during the week before.

He spent about $170 on his system. He actually said the more you use the system the longer the filters last. I don't know how this is, but that's what he claims he read.

I'm not sure how they operate. Do you turn it on and the extra water flows out to a storage tank or something? We do laundry basically every single day except the weekend when we'll do more than a load a day. I swear the kids use 2-3 towels every time they take a shower.

I need to start shopping for one as well. The chloramine the city says the put in the water is easy enough to get rid of, but frankly I'm tired of having to add so much acid, even for a darker beer.

As a bonus, they make coffee and fill the steamer for his clothes with it, and it gives plenty of savings for them in drinking water.

I paid more than I was planning but got a great system that I really enjoy out of it. It goes Sediment filter > iron filter > reverse osmosis > ultra-violet > 3.2 gal tank + 9 gal reserve tank > artesian filter with a permeate pump improving efficiency significantly. I plumbed it to my fridge for ice and cold water and to a tap on the sink.

Haven't brewed with it yet but I can pull 12 gallons and some change before the system slows down and with the permeate pump it fills up a lot faster so I don't see brew day being a big problem.

It is actually overkill somewhat as the original system I got was for a well and I am city water but apparently the filters that I wouldn't need do double duty and will clean up some of the stuff we saw in my city water report so it is all good. I figure it is worth it to pay a bit more and take the time to install it all right since it'll last forever (filter changes every year or so) and is actually cheaper in the long run. I was having spring water delivered which killed me on brew day and left me with funky ice and cold water from the fridge.

i have a rodi system for my fish tanks. you can get a 2 stage ro filter pretty cheap. and it doesnt take up a lot of room.

thefilterguys.biz

great stuff.

I bought mine from Airwaterice.com 50 G/day Dow filmtec membrane and love it. It hides under my sink and it wasn't that bad pricewise either. I have one with DI stage for the reef tank also but that's overkill for brewing. only issue is I have to fill my pots ahead of time if using straight RO because my storage tank is only a few gallons. A ten gallon AG batch requires me to plan ahead a bit or just do a RO/tap blend. Another thing to consider is filter cost which aren't terrible either in the long run.

I have bought all my systems from puriteam.com.

Really great customer service. The last one I installed I broke the valve on the tank during install, plastic cracked. Without charge they shipped out the part that day, sent it fast delivery too.

I've been using a few different purewaterclub.com units for years. I am an aquarium fertilizer manufacturer(www.rootmedic.com) and run a business maintaining about 3 dozen setups in businesses. Our water is like liquid rock around here and RO/Di is a must. The Purewaterclub units are priced great and their service is top notch.

I've recommended them to a dozen or so clients and they have all been happy with them as well.

Get a the largest unit you are comfortable spending money on. The amount of time it takes to fill will surprise you. Also, check what your water pressure is. The local water company can give you an idea of what it is on your block, usually. If it is low, you might need a booster pump to efficiently use an RO filter.

I collect the waste water and use it to water my yard/garden. SUPER high in minerals and salts, so it should be moved around in the yard or diluted down or you get salts left on the dirt.

The prices and service from PWC are hard to beat. Do NOT spend 3x as much for a label. They offer nothing else special.

marmonduke said:

I bought mine from Airwaterice.com 50 G/day Dow filmtec membrane and love it. It hides under my sink and it wasn't that bad pricewise either. I have one with DI stage for the reef tank also but that's overkill for brewing. only issue is I have to fill my pots ahead of time if using straight RO because my storage tank is only a few gallons. A ten gallon AG batch requires me to plan ahead a bit or just do a RO/tap blend. Another thing to consider is filter cost which aren't terrible either in the long run.

Click to expand...

I kind of like that small unit. I won't need much more than that since the only things I can see using it for is brewing a batch or two a month, and for filling the iron and making coffee twice a week.

Do you have any idea how often you might need to change filter packs?

TxBrew said:

I have bought all my systems from puriteam.com.

Really great customer service. The last one I installed I broke the valve on the tank during install, plastic cracked. Without charge they shipped out the part that day, sent it fast delivery too.

Click to expand...

Link don't work?

Homercidal said:

I kind of like that small unit. I won't need much more than that since the only things I can see using it for is brewing a batch or two a month, and for filling the iron and making coffee twice a week.

Do you have any idea how often you might need to change filter packs?

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We use ours a ton for everything from coffee, water for humidifiers, mix with formula, brewing, dogs water, and of course drinking water. I just test with TDS meter about every 6 months or so. The summers chloramine is tough on the system so I buy the Chloramine filter pack for like $25. So with an average TDS of 150-160 out of the faucet I have to replace my prefilters every 6 months or so. Here's the one I have:

http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1WATERCOP/WaterCop-5-Stage-Kitchen-RO.html

For the price of that 50 gpd unit from airwaterice(actually 30ish dollars cheaper). you can get a 6 stage 150 gpd drinking water setup from purewaterclub. Shipped for free.

Notice the difference in cost between 50 and 150 gpd???

http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=88_58

I would add a T valve after the tank with an on/off so that you can run a line from it to your brew pot or larger holding tank so you don't have to try to fill in the sink and clutter up the sink for a few hours while holding.

To support 150 gpd you have to have pretty high water pressure. I have a 75 gpd system right now so it should take about 1 hour to fill my 3 gallon tank but my house pressure is low enough it takes 1.25 hours. Unless I get a pump to increase pressure I can't even use a 150 gpd membrane.

I'm actually installing a RO system in my house this weekend. I also have limited space under my sink and plan to put the tank in my crawlspace. Not sure it that's an option for you, but just an idea.

mprossman said:

I'm actually installing a RO system in my house this weekend. I also have limited space under my sink and plan to put the tank in my crawlspace. Not sure it that's an option for you, but just an idea.

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I cleared the cabinet next to my sink and put my reserve tank there, lol. But then I live alone and have a lot of cabinet space so there is plenty of empty space to expand into.

Prymal said:

To support 150 gpd you have to have pretty high water pressure. I have a 75 gpd system right now so it should take about 1 hour to fill my 3 gallon tank but my house pressure is low enough it takes 1.25 hours. Unless I get a pump to increase pressure I can't even use a 150 gpd membrane.

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I don't mind it taking a couple of days to give me the water for brewing. I wouldn't use it for anything else, just for brewing. What is a "pretty high water pressure"? I think we have high water pressure, as it sure seems like it when I take a shower or run water, but I don't know the exact pressure.

A permeate pump can help with that Yooper. They are like 60 bucks and are pretty easy to install when you install the RO system.

jd3 said:

For the price of that 50 gpd unit from airwaterice(actually 30ish dollars cheaper). you can get a 6 stage 150 gpd drinking water setup from purewaterclub. Shipped for free.

Notice the difference in cost between 50 and 150 gpd???

http://www.purewaterclub.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=88_58

I would add a T valve after the tank with an on/off so that you can run a line from it to your brew pot or larger holding tank so you don't have to try to fill in the sink and clutter up the sink for a few hours while holding.

Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of the filter array the systems you linked use for a variety of reasons. First, why would they use a sediment and then (2) 5 micron filters? The third filter should step down to a (1) micron to better prolong the life of the (expensive) membrane. 5 micron is just not fine enough to give you a good life out of an RO membrane.

Second, they do not say what membrane they are using. Which is why their systems are cheaper.

For those comparing systems, make sure you are comparing the membrane as well. Yes, many of the units use the same canisters, lines, etc. But I wouldn't use ANYTHING other than a genuine Dow Filmtec membrane, either the 50 or 75 gpd membranes. The QC and life of many of the knockoff membranes are absolutely horrible, and if you aren't concerned with the quality of the water coming out of the unit then why are you paying for an RO unit to begin with?

Also note that going above a 75gpd membrane usually results in a lower rejection rate, usually from 98%+ to 90% or lower. See:

http://www.airwaterice.com/category/19.membranes_and_descriptions/

Lastly, make sure you know whether your water uses chlorine or chloramine to disinfect. The system will require a different filtration array to remove the chloramine.

I REALLY like the permeate pumps. I can turn out 20 gallons of water in an afternoon easily to do a brew and it greatly cuts down on waster water. It also helps if you use your RO system with an icemaker like I do. I wouldn't buy a system without one.

This is the system I have. $194 with a permeate pump and dow filmtec membrane (they will upgrade you to a 75gpd DOW at no charge if you ask):

http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1ED/Energy-Recovery-Reverse-Osmosis-System.html

Change the filter array every 6-12 months depending on your incoming water and the RO membrane will last 3-5 years easily between replacement.

Yooper said:

I don't mind it taking a couple of days to give me the water for brewing. I wouldn't use it for anything else, just for brewing. What is a "pretty high water pressure"? I think we have high water pressure, as it sure seems like it when I take a shower or run water, but I don't know the exact pressure.

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You need 50 psi to run a 75 gpd system at full speed. To run 150 gpd you need 65 psi.

Can these RO systems attach to a garden hose or do they have to be attached to a regular plumbing line inside the home?

kincade said:

I'm not a big fan of the filter array the systems you linked use for a variety of reasons. First, why would they use a sediment and then (2) 5 micron filters? The third filter should step down to a (1) micron to better prolong the life of the (expensive) membrane. 5 micron is just not fine enough to give you a good life out of an RO membrane.

Second, they do not say what membrane they are using. Which is why their systems are cheaper.

For those comparing systems, make sure you are comparing the membrane as well. Yes, many of the units use the same canisters, lines, etc. But I wouldn't use ANYTHING other than a genuine Dow Filmtec membrane, either the 50 or 75 gpd membranes. The QC and life of many of the knockoff membranes are absolutely horrible, and if you aren't concerned with the quality of the water coming out of the unit then why are you paying for an RO unit to begin with?

Also note that going above a 75gpd membrane usually results in a lower rejection rate, usually from 98%+ to 90% or lower. See:

http://www.airwaterice.com/category/19.membranes_and_descriptions/

Lastly, make sure you know whether your water uses chlorine or chloramine to disinfect. The system will require a different filtration array to remove the chloramine.

I REALLY like the permeate pumps. I can turn out 20 gallons of water in an afternoon easily to do a brew and it greatly cuts down on waster water. It also helps if you use your RO system with an icemaker like I do. I wouldn't buy a system without one.

This is the system I have. $194 with a permeate pump and dow filmtec membrane (they will upgrade you to a 75gpd DOW at no charge if you ask):

http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1ED/Energy-Recovery-Reverse-Osmosis-System.html

Change the filter array every 6-12 months depending on your incoming water and the RO membrane will last 3-5 years easily between replacement.

Click to expand...

On the system you have how are you getting 20 gallons in an afternoon? The tank looks kind of small to me. I'm thinking of setting up a system like this in my basement, with the pump or pressure tank is it possible to hook a RV hose to the system and pump the water to my brew rig that is about 50 feet away? I wouldn't mind if I pumped 5-10 gallons to my HLT a day, I could store water in it until I got enough for brewday.

nyer said:

On the system you have how are you getting 20 gallons in an afternoon? The tank looks kind of small to me. I'm thinking of setting up a system like this in my basement, with the pump or pressure tank is it possible to hook a RV hose to the system and pump the water to my brew rig that is about 50 feet away? I wouldn't mind if I pumped 5-10 gallons to my HLT a day, I could store water in it until I got enough for brewday.

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The permeate pump helps the system make water much more quickly... So you have 2 options:

-run off 1 container at a time (I have 7.5 gallon containers I use for camping). This is what I did until a few months ago.
-get another tank and daisy chain it with the other. Now I have 8 gallons of RO at anytime ready to go. I run one off the night before in about 10 minutes, then the next morning I run another off and I'm ready to brew. Any additional water I need will be ready by the time I need it.

I have no idea if the pressure would be enough to pump through an rv hose for 50'. I would imagine the answer would be no but I've never tried. But how would you control the shutoff when it's full? Plus you have to worry about leaks in your expensive home. Seems like it's more trouble than it's worth.

I'd either run your water off in a bucket or container then use it when you want. This is the container I use:

http://www.rei.com/product/618168/reliance-aqua-tainer-7-gal

kincade said:

The permeate pump helps the system make water much more quickly... So you have 2 options:

-run off 1 container at a time (I have 7.5 gallon containers I use for camping). This is what I did until a few months ago.
-get another tank and daisy chain it with the other. Now I have 8 gallons of RO at anytime ready to go. I run one off the night before in about 10 minutes, then the next morning I run another off and I'm ready to brew. Any additional water I need will be ready by the time I need it.

I have no idea if the pressure would be enough to pump through an rv hose for 50'. I would imagine the answer would be no but I've never tried. But how would you control the shutoff when it's full? Plus you have to worry about leaks in your expensive home. Seems like it's more trouble than it's worth.

I'd either run your water off in a bucket or container then use it when you want. This is the container I use:

http://www.rei.com/product/618168/reliance-aqua-tainer-7-gal

Click to expand...

I'm trying to avoid carrying buckets. My water supply is in the basement and I brew in my garage. I have a door between the basement and the garage but I have to climb a steep set of stairs and it wasn't fun doing it with water buckets. I was hoping that pump would push the water to my garage. I don't want anything too complicated because I'm moving in a year and I want to unhook the system and take it with me.

Can you set up the RO system in the garage and supply it from the garden hose? You'd have to start collecting in advance, but as long as it doesn't freeze it should be fine.

Homercidal said:

Can you set up the RO system in the garage and supply it from the garden hose? You'd have to start collecting in advance, but as long as it doesn't freeze it should be fine.

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I could do that fairly easy and since I'm planning to move to Florida next year freezing shouldn't be a concern I guess I was thinking a RO system was pressurized either by the incoming water pressure or from the bladder tank and pump. If it isn't how do you hook them up to the icemaker/drinking water in a fridge?

I think they are pressurized by the incoming water, but I think it would work if the source was a garden hose rather than a supply pipe in the kitchen. Might need an adapter. Not sure if it's good for them to be used on and off like that, but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

What happens to the excess water?

I would prefer to have one in the basement so I could hook it to my fridge in the kitchen. I hate the smell of old ice and I think this would eliminate that problem to. I'm trying to read up on exactly how they work.

nyer said:

I would prefer to have one in the basement so I could hook it to my fridge in the kitchen. I hate the smell of old ice and I think this would eliminate that problem to. I'm trying to read up on exactly how they work.

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Hooking mine up to my ice machine and cold water tap in the fridge/freezer were big selling points when I set mine up. That isn't an option with bottled water.

I have to run to the grocery store to fill up about 20 gallons for brewing this weekend - I should really get an RO system...

nyer said:

I'm trying to avoid carrying buckets. My water supply is in the basement and I brew in my garage. I have a door between the basement and the garage but I have to climb a steep set of stairs and it wasn't fun doing it with water buckets. I was hoping that pump would push the water to my garage. I don't want anything too complicated because I'm moving in a year and I want to unhook the system and take it with me.

Click to expand...

I don't know that anyone can answer that. I would imagine that it might push the water through the appropriate tubing (i.e. icemaker tubing), but using an RV garden hose is not something I'm aware of someone trying yet. A friend has his system pushing to a 20G tank in his garage but it is on the same level. 12' or more of head changes everything.

I guess I was thinking a RO system was pressurized either by the incoming water pressure or from the bladder tank and pump. If it isn't how do you hook them up to the icemaker/drinking water in a fridge?

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Incoming water is pressurized by the pressure in your city lines, the permeate pump pushes MORE water through the membrane than would normally be possible with normal water pressure. Think of it as an engine driven supercharger. It also cuts down on the waste water from anywhere from 10-20:1 to around 2-1:1. And as a result of the increased utilization of the incoming water it will generate RO water more quickly. Outgoing water is pressurized by the bladder in the tank which is usually charged from 5-10psi.

I think they are pressurized by the incoming water, but I think it would work if the source was a garden hose rather than a supply pipe in the kitchen. Might need an adapter. Not sure if it's good for them to be used on and off like that, but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

What happens to the excess water?

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Personally I wouldn't use anything hokey in this setup unless you stand very little to lose in a potential flood. One leaky or cracked fitting and you could have hundreds of gallons of water pouring in your house. A garden hose would certainly qualify under the 'not in my house' modification list. I'm not aware of any garden or RV style hoses that are rated for continuous pressure day in and day out. I'd rather use PEX line for this use since it's much more appropriate and rated for this use.

Excess water is usually dumped down the drain, but since it has gone through a few stages of pre-filtration many will use it in their garden or outdoors. Just realize that dumping that water in one place for an extended amount of time can result in a concentration of minerals and salts.

Hooking mine up to my ice machine and cold water tap in the fridge/freezer were big selling points when I set mine up. That isn't an option with bottled water.

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Agreed. Although one needs to make sure that their icemaker and cold water tap are RO compatible. As RO is nearly pure water it can easily leach things from existing taps, pipes, and icemakers. The largest concern is lead in brass. A faucet, fixture, or fridge should state if it is RO compatible.

I bought a dupont one from menards for like $100 easy install 30 min because i ran an additional line one for the kitchen and one for brew room

kincade said:

Agreed. Although one needs to make sure that their icemaker and cold water tap are RO compatible. As RO is nearly pure water it can easily leach things from existing taps, pipes, and icemakers. The largest concern is lead in brass. A faucet, fixture, or fridge should state if it is RO compatible.

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I have an artesian post filter that puts some back so am not worried but generally speaking yes you make a good point.

AnchorBock said:

I have to run to the grocery store to fill up about 20 gallons for brewing this weekend - I should really get an RO system...

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I have two RO systems in my house in addition to a whole house filter. My incoming TDS (total dissolved solids) is somewhere around 150 ppm. The RO takes the solids literally down to 1 ppm. I wouldn't use all RO water for beer but have mixed filtered 150 ppm feed with RO to get softer brew water. Half and half would yield about 75 ppm TDS.

Mostly it seems you want to remove chlorine VOCs heavy metals and that's faster and way cheaper and easier to do than with RO.

Yooper said:

I'm thinking more and more (after something Homercidal said) about getting a home RO water system. I know aquarium stores sell them.

I guess I need to consider the cost, the hassle, and how convenient it would be vs. buying some RO water and/or using slaked lime to drop alkalinity.

My laundry room is my brewery as well. There is very little room under the utility sink, so I guess I need to find out how much room a half-way decent RO system would take up. The waste water could go into the washing machine I assume?

Any thoughts and helpful hints (along with recommendations) would be appreciated!

Click to expand...

I did quite a bit of shopping around when I setup my reef tank. One of the big things that bothered me was the waste:water ratio most of the consumer kit had coming in at 4gal wasted to 1gal output.

Since I get dinged on my water bill for what I draw and dinged again on the sewage side for the same volume, it made sense to me to try and find one that had a better ratio. I ended up buying a reef miser system from http://www.thefilterguys.biz who were fantastic to deal with. Not only did they have the best pricing I was finding, they were very helpful and had no problems spending a fair bit of time on the phone with me making sure the system would fit my needs. I ended up with a 150 gpd workhorse with a 1.25:1 ratio.

Most people just send the waste water down he drain. I collect it in big brute trash cans on rollers and use it to spot irrigate my roses, fruit trees and assorted landscaping.

I use a system from airwaterice. I ordered their HD System, and specified the 75gpd membrane. I have been very happy with the unit thus far, and after a year, I am glad I switched to RO water. My beer has improved, and my filters looks horrible (heavy iron).

jd3 said:

I've been using a few different purewaterclub.com units for years. I am an aquarium fertilizer manufacturer(www.rootmedic.com) and run a business maintaining about 3 dozen setups in businesses. Our water is like liquid rock around here and RO/Di is a must. The Purewaterclub units are priced great and their service is top notch.

I've recommended them to a dozen or so clients and they have all been happy with them as well.

Get a the largest unit you are comfortable spending money on. The amount of time it takes to fill will surprise you. Also, check what your water pressure is. The local water company can give you an idea of what it is on your block, usually. If it is low, you might need a booster pump to efficiently use an RO filter.

I collect the waste water and use it to water my yard/garden. SUPER high in minerals and salts, so it should be moved around in the yard or diluted down or you get salts left on the dirt.

The prices and service from PWC are hard to beat. Do NOT spend 3x as much for a label. They offer nothing else special.

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I would be interested in specific comments from anyone concerning the waste water question. Not on how to get rid of it, but the amount generated. The vendors and manufacturers don't post a lot of information about this, and I've heard figures as high as 4 gallons waste to every gallon generated with RO systems.......which is too much for me. I'm sticking with the machine at the grocery store until I can get a handle on this issue.

rico567 said:

I would be interested in specific comments from anyone concerning the waste water question. Not on how to get rid of it, but the amount generated. The vendors and manufacturers don't post a lot of information about this, and I've heard figures as high as 4 gallons waste to every gallon generated with RO systems.......which is too much for me. I'm sticking with the machine at the grocery store until I can get a handle on this issue.

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4:1 is about standard for most systems, meaning 4 gallons go down the drain or every 1 gallon output through the membranes. The supermarket RO machines aren't likely any more efficient if your concern is partially environmentally based. Some companies like thefilterguys.biz have a lower waste version at approx 1.25g waste to 1g output which is what I bought. They cost more, but amortized across the five years I've had the filter the extra cost has more than paid for itself on my water bill

Jukas said:

4:1 is about standard for most systems, meaning 4 gallons go down the drain or every 1 gallon output through the membranes. The supermarket RO machines aren't likely any more efficient if your concern is partially environmentally based. Some companies like thefilterguys.biz have a lower waste version at approx 1.25g waste to 1g output which is what I bought. They cost more, but amortized across the five years I've had the filter the extra cost has more than paid for itself on my water bill

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Thanks- this is the sort of information I'm looking for. We're in a rural area, on a well. Although it's a good well, and has never failed us, I'm not willing to waste 4 gallons of water to get 1 of drinkable. Not concerned globally about the environment, since I only have control over my little hacienda. This "filterguys" system looks like what I'm after......also, it appears as though high pressure systems waste less water than do the lower. No problem here....with our current well pump, we cycle 40/60, so there's always plenty of pressure.