how big a starter with a REALLY old smack pack?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

dcbeerboy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
415
Reaction score
0
Location
DC Metro
going to brew a two hearted clone next week, splitting the 10 gallons between us-05 and irish ale yeast. the irish ale yeast was produced in march of 07. according to mr. malty, i need 36 packs of yeast and 3 liters of wort.

a bit much?
 
Get it in a 2 liter starter and see how it reacts. More than likely, you will have to step it up a few times to get a sufficient amount of slurry.
 
i activated it last night. hopefully i'll see some swelling tonight. that would be a good sign.
 
That yeast is probably not viable. Why risk it? I'd buy some new fresh yeast.

??????????????? What makes you think that???????????????????????

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes. I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

You just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that's how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't

dcbeerboy is on the right track in wanting to make a starter. Just start small and build it up incrementally and you'll be fine.
 
??????????????? What makes you think that???????????????????????

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes. I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

You just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that's how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't

dcbeerboy is on the right track in wanting to make a starter. Just start small and build it up incrementally and you'll be fine.

OK then follow the mr malty chart and use 36 smack packs and make 3 liters of starter.

Or you can under pitch with your 3 year old barely viable yeast and deal with those problems.

Or you can culture yeast from the 3 year old smack pack and step it up several times until you have the proper cell counts for a 5 gallon fermentation.

Or you could do things the easy way and just buy a new pack.

The choice is yours. Personally, I like to start with fresh yeast, make the proper sized starter and pitch the proper amount of healthy, active cells. I find this produces the best results. But if you want to dick around with old yeast and under pitching, have at it.
 
OK then follow the mr malty chart and use 36 smack packs and make 3 liters of starter.

Or you can under pitch with your 3 year old barely viable yeast and deal with those problems.

Or you can culture yeast from the 3 year old smack pack and step it up several times until you have the proper cell counts for a 5 gallon fermentation.

Or you could do things the easy way and just buy a new pack.

The choice is yours. Personally, I like to start with fresh yeast, make the proper sized starter and pitch the proper amount of healthy, active cells. I find this produces the best results. But if you want to dick around with old yeast and under pitching, have at it.

If he steps it up several times it will be fine and there will be no under pitching. I have done several batches with yeast harvested from bottles of Saison Dupont and Hennepin.
 
If he steps it up several times it will be fine and there will be no under pitching. I have done several batches with yeast harvested from bottles of Saison Dupont and Hennepin.

Sure that was option 3 on my list. I guess my point was there are several ways to get r done but just pitching that old pack or using it in a big 3L starter ain't gonna work well. The original question was how big a starter? And it's not that simple with old yeast. If you want it that simple, do like me and start with some fresh yeast. The alternative is slowly growing it up or just under pitching what you got.
 
1.025-1.030 wort costs about nothing (if you brew all grain)

Smack packs are $7

You make starters with all grain?

A new smack pack may cost 7 bucks but the time saved may make it worth the price. It's your call. I prefer to spend the extra 7 bucks. Not only to save time but to ensure that I start with good yeast.
 
Some people will save some runnings or trub loss from an all grain batch in the fridge, then boil it later to use for a starter.

With yeast this old I would probably pitch it into a smaller starter, perhaps just a few hundred ml of wort. If there's life, it'll finish up quickly and be ready to do your standard size 2-3 L starter.
 
You make starters with all grain?

A new smack pack may cost 7 bucks but the time saved may make it worth the price. It's your call. I prefer to spend the extra 7 bucks. Not only to save time but to ensure that I start with good yeast.

Yes, when I am running low on wort in the freezer I just bump my batch size a little and take wort from the second runnings, cant get any easier.

How the hell does a new smack pack save time?
You can walk away from boiling wort AND walk away from cooling wort.
Takes me all of about 5 minutes total time to make a starter, the rest is just waiting.


Are you claiming that all of the people that use slants or frozen yeast banks don't have good yeast simply because they're stepping them up?

That is exactly what he is saying and he is DEAD wrong
 
sorry for my poor choice of words, but ladies, really, stop arguing.

okay, so make a 200mL starter tonight, aerate, pitch yeast. stir plate or just let it go? in the beaker?
 
Are you claiming that all of the people that use slants or frozen yeast banks don't have good yeast simply because they're stepping them up?

NO you don't have to look very hard to find lots of success stories of people culturing yeast.

But yeast is the one part of the brewing equation that you can't clean up. Everything else gets boiled or sanitized. So if your reusing yeast from a previous batch and that batch had an infection then you've shot yourself in the foot. And you may not realize you have a problem until months down the road when you taste the first batch. Perhaps, I'm paranoid but I like to start each batch with a fresh vial.
 
the rest is just waiting.
there is the added time. Additionaly, at each step you have the potential for infection. The more steps the more oppertunity for infection. In the ideal scenario you would not do any starters. You would have the proper amount of yeast on hand in an active state.

That is exactly what he is saying and he is DEAD wrong
No I did not.
 
??????????????? What makes you think that???????????????????????

Aye. I've successfully used smack packs as old as 3 1/2 years. I start them in a small (no more than a qt.) low gravity (1.020) starter. Once I see they're viable, I wait for them to ferment out and step them up. If you can't step up a yeast starter without it getting infected, perhaps you should consider taking up knitting for a hobby instead. ;)
 
Aye. I've successfully used smack packs as old as 3 1/2 years. I start them in a small (no more than a qt.) low gravity (1.020) starter. Once I see they're viable, I wait for them to ferment out and step them up. If you can't step up a yeast starter without it getting infected, perhaps you should consider taking up knitting for a hobby instead. ;)

the man has spoken.... nice one!:mug:
 
You make starters with all grain?

A new smack pack may cost 7 bucks but the time saved may make it worth the price. It's your call. I prefer to spend the extra 7 bucks. Not only to save time but to ensure that I start with good yeast.

the only time I don't use a starter is when I use dry yeast just rehydrate it and pitch, but liquid whether its a smack pack or a vial I always make a starter - don't you?


It don't matter if its all grain or extract the principle is the same in anything other than a low gravity beer you are under pitching if you pitch directly from the vial or smack pack. I save some of my runnings from each brew and freeze in 16 oz containers thaw out what I need boil it then do the starter on a stir plate
 
Are you claiming that all of the people that use slants or frozen yeast banks don't have good yeast simply because they're stepping them up?

If slants are identical to just letting liquid slurry sit around, why do people go through the trouble of slanting yeast?
 
Knitting? Harsh

Alright then, I give up. My advice is only for people who suck at making beer. But would you listen to somebody like me who obviously must suck enough to follow my own sucky advice? If so, then your just as stupid as I am.

Maybe I should give up. Especially since I don't have the proper skills to do things the way everybody else does them. I wonder if I can knit a beer...
 
Knitting? Harsh

Alright then, I give up. My advice is only for people who suck at making beer. But would you listen to somebody like me who obviously must suck enough to follow my own sucky advice? If so, then your just as stupid as I am.

Maybe I should give up. Especially since I don't have the proper skills to do things the way everybody else does them. I wonder if I can knit a beer...

Harsh? How about humorous? I say the same thing to people who fear taking a gravity reading because they might infect the beer. Propagating yeast is a basic skill that every brewer should be able to do without problems. It's not all that hard. For years, I'd make slants on my kitchen counter and never had an issue. I recall back in the early days when someone famous (Dave Line, maybe?) said that is you were going to sucessfully brew beer at home, you needed to get rid of your pets because they would cause the beer to be infected. Fortunately, most of us knew better. If YOU have had trouble from stepping up yeast starters, then either you shouldn't do it or you should examine your technique to see how to do it without problems. But you also need to recognize that you're in a minority and for most people it poses no problems.
 
Knitting? Harsh

Alright then, I give up. My advice is only for people who suck at making beer. But would you listen to somebody like me who obviously must suck enough to follow my own sucky advice? If so, then your just as stupid as I am.

Maybe I should give up. Especially since I don't have the proper skills to do things the way everybody else does them. I wonder if I can knit a beer...

nobody said you were stupid . We have opposing viewpoints on the subject that's all . And if you feel fine spending 7-8 bucks on fresh yeast that's fine it's your money and your beer . The op has nothing to lose with stepping up a starter if it fails then he has time to buy yeast.
 
maybe you shouldn't be so combative about a silly little issue.

I don't feel like I was being combative. I feel like I was just explaining all the options then indicating my preferred method and my reasons for choosing that method. I've said it several times that you do what you feel is right. How is that combative?
 
THIS
Is where you lost me

OK I can see how that could come off as insulting. But you just have to take my word that I did not intend to put anybody down. Perhaps I was a bit liberal with my use of the language in an attempt to be straight forward. Perhaps "mess around" would have come off better? "Play around"? It's semantics. At the root of the irritation is that we have different opinions. Try not to let that bother you. It certainly doesn't bother me.
 
Back
Top