Tart of Darkness

Could always measure out a very small amount of lactic acid and beer, see if you like the effect, and then scale up if you do? Might be a better route than just adding acid to the keg and potentially adding too much - just a thought! Either way let us know how it goes.

Cheers!

I tried adding lactic acid to a tart fruit beer once. I added 15ml to six gallons of beer. Yes, it added some noticeable sourness and acidity, but I can't say it makes a good substitute for lactic acid fermentation with respect to flavor. I don't think I'll ever try that again.

I think I'm going to try what Matt suggested. Might pull out three pints and add different amounts of lactic acid to each one, have a couple friends over that know sours to help try and determine the amount that tastes best to all of us.

I added the lactic acid in 5ml increments to the entire batch and sampled it each time. I had the right amount, but didn't like what it did to the flavor of the beer.

Vinny C doesn't recommend adding lactic acid to a sour beer that isn't sour enough. This is something I learned after I tried it. In his words, it makes it taste medicinal. If I knew this, I probably would have tried it anyway.

I brewed this last Dec and finally got around to sampling it. It tastes great! Still on the fence about adding the oak or not (leaning to not). Also, I want to bottle this but not sure if the yeast is still viable (been nearly 10 months) enough or will I have to add new yeast for the priming sugar. Anyone have any thoughts on adding new yeast?

I was also on the fence about adding the oak, glad I did, it doesn't over power the flavor at all, it really compliments it. I was actually only intending on leaving the oak in for a few weeks but work got busy and I left it for over four and it was still fine.

javaguru said:

I brewed this last Dec and finally got around to sampling it. It tastes great! Still on the fence about adding the oak or not (leaning to not). Also, I want to bottle this but not sure if the yeast is still viable (been nearly 10 months) enough or will I have to add new yeast for the priming sugar. Anyone have any thoughts on adding new yeast?

Click to expand...

I might try adding new yeast personally. Might try using a wine yeast, as the pH might be pretty low, making it tough for a lot of beer yeast strains to survive / do their job. Good luck, and glad it's tasting great so far!

fxdude said:

I was also on the fence about adding the oak, glad I did, it doesn't over power the flavor at all, it really compliments it. I was actually only intending on leaving the oak in for a few weeks but work got busy and I left it for over four and it was still fine.

Click to expand...

Thanks, that's good to know. Maybe I chance it. I was just afraid of mucking up something that has taken this long. Ha, probably a common fear for first time sour brewers like myself.

Jipper said:

I might try adding new yeast personally. Might try using a wine yeast, as the pH might be pretty low, making it tough for a lot of beer yeast strains to survive / do their job. Good luck, and glad it's tasting great so far!

Click to expand...

Thanks! Yeah, saw on older post about using Rockpile...will give it a shot!

Vinnie uses Rockpile, so that would be a fine choice. I like to use Champagne yeast (EC-1118/Premier Cuvée) because of its tolerance to alcohol, pH, temp, etc. Very robust and readily available. Rockpile I've had to order, and found no difference in the end product.

Brewed this on 9/2/13 at 66* in temp controlled freezer. Moved to the back of my closet on 9/22/13 (temp has been a steady 75* inside). Just the other day the airlock started to bubble again every few seconds and is still going.

I'm not worried (pretty sure it's infected ) just wondering what might be the cause...

Cheers all!

Tomcat0304 said:

Brewed this on 9/2/13 at 66* in temp controlled freezer. Moved to the back of my closet on 9/22/13 (temp has been a steady 75* inside). Just the other day the airlock started to bubble again every few seconds and is still going. I'm not worried (pretty sure it's infected ) just wondering what might be the cause... Cheers all!

Click to expand...

Did you pitch Roeselare? Assuming so, based on my experience with Roeselare that's pretty typical. The yeasts and the bugs in the blend become more active at different stages. I usually have a very active primary followed by a bit of a lull, then it starts back up again

microbusbrewery said:

Did you pitch Roeselare? Assuming so, based on my experience with Roeselare that's pretty typical. The yeasts and the bugs in the blend become more active at different stages. I usually have a very active primary followed by a bit of a lull, then it starts back up again

Click to expand...

Oh yes, definitely pitched Roeselare! Again, not worried, just excited!

I'm getting ready to brew the all grain version this weekend. I'm planning to add dried sour cherries and maybe some dried Italian plums to it too.

I have a batch at around a year. Spent the entire time in a better bottle. It smells amazing - lots of dark cherry notes, but only has the sour level of something like an Petrus Oud Bruin. It's also quite dry, so I wonder if there's much left for the bugs to chew on. I'm thinking I might add some blackberries, as I have a big bag in the freezer.

The oak chips were included in the kit I bought last year.

I brewed it last November and added the oak back in late May. A few weeks ago I moved it to secondary and I think I will bottle it soon. When I added the oak chips I took a taste and it was a bit acidic and maybe vinegary, but it was delicious a few weeks ago when I checked it. I'm really looking forward to this. I happened across a bottle of Tart of Darkness in Chicago a month or so ago at a Binny's, so I bought that bad boy and now I have something to compare it to.

I ended up adding a small bottle of lactic acid to mine. It brought the sourness up to a nicer level but is definitely a different kind of sour when doing a side by side with Tart of Darkness. The Tart of Darkness is a much more earthy kind of sour where as the lactic acid is a bit sharper. I shared it with my local homebrew club and only a few picked out that it had lactic acid, guessing the others just didn't know the lactic acid taste as well.

Submitted it to our internal club homebrew contest. The main note that was consistent between the judges is that the flavor was a little thin/flat. They wanted more flavor from the malt to back up the sourness. I'd say I have to agree. If I was to do this again I'd up the malt bill. I may also ferment at a much higher temp to try and get more of the natural sourness from the yeast.

Overall those I shared it with at our club have enjoyed it and I'm happy enough with it for my first sour but I've been calling it a session sour stout.

cheyneyr said:

The oak chips were included in the kit I bought last year.

Click to expand...

I know that Morebeer puts oak in with their Consecration kit that comes from old barrels at Russian River. Are these supposed to be anything from the Bruery or just plain oak chips?

They are bourbon soaked oak chips, not exactly sure where they come from but you can definitely smell the bourbon when you open the packet.

Good to hear people are happy with the results and enjoying their homebrew versions. I got to try ToD at GABF this year and loved it. I'm pretty excited because I managed to acquire a used barrel from one of our local breweries so we're doing a ToD club barrel project. My contribution has been sitting in primary since the end of September and we'll be filling our barrel in a couple weeks. Then the exercise in patience begins.

I just finished brewing it today. Pitched Roeselare and the dregs from a bottle of ToD. Now to wait for a year and a half to crawl by!

microbusbrewery said:

... and we'll be filling our barrel in a couple weeks. Then the exercise in patience begins.

Click to expand...

Filled the barrel this past weekend. 55-ish gallons of what will hopefully develop into sour beer goodness.

Anyone bottle this yet? I have been thinking about using the Belgian style ones with a cork. Wondering if that's overkill? Should I worry about bottle bombs if I don't use them? Though, since this has been sitting in the secondary for nearly a year, no reason to go cheap with regular bottles I guess.

Since I just brewed this over the weekend, I'm a long way off from bottling. However, I've been filling up boxes with empty bottles for just that purpose and I'm planning to start corking whatever comes out of my sour pipeline when I get to that point. On the other hand, the Bruery certainly doesn't cork Tart of Darkness so, assuming your FG is low, you shouldn't have any problems if you cap them. Many of my sour brewing buddies do just that.

I brewed this 8 months or so ago and it seems to be stuck at 1.01. I added some Jolly Pumpkin dregs about 3-4 months ago and while it grew a monster pellicle afterwards, the gravity hasn't really come down recently. I checked a month or so ago and then again a couple days ago and it hasn't budged.

I finally got around to bottling my ToD clone this weekend (brewed it last November). It's smelling and tasting awesome!

Any guesses or experience on how long it will take for this to bottle condition? This is my first go with Roeselare.

cheyneyr said:

I finally got around to bottling my ToD clone this weekend (brewed it last November). It's smelling and tasting awesome! Any guesses or experience on how long it will take for this to bottle condition? This is my first go with Roeselare.

Click to expand...

If you didn't re-yeast it will probably take a while. After a year the sach strain in the blend won't really be viable; you'll be relying primarily on the brett which tends to carb slower. My best guess is 6-8 weeks minimum.

I bottled mine in regular bottles. I was a little nervous about this so I kept the carbonation to about 2.5 volumes which was slightly lower than I wanted but what most said regular bottles could handle. The bottles have gone through temp swings and seem to be hanging in there.

fxdude said:

I bottled mine in regular bottles. I was a little nervous about this so I kept the carbonation to about 2.5 volumes which was slightly lower than I wanted but what most said regular bottles could handle. The bottles have gone through temp swings and seem to be hanging in there.

Click to expand...

What was your FG? Mine is stuck at 1.01 after 8 months, which seems high.

1.010 which I believe is about right

fxdude said:

1.010 which I believe is about right

Click to expand...

Awesome, that's what I like to hear. Hopefully it will be good at that FG and I won't have to worry about any exploding bottles.

I force carbonated in a keg then bottled from there so I'm not sure about bottle carbonating. 1.010 is fairly low and dry. I'm guessing after all of that aging time there shouldn't be many fermentable sugars left but I'd be nervous trying to nail a high carbonation level in normal bottles by bottle conditioning .

I shouldn't keep checking this thread. I've been sitting here, daydreaming about pellicles and corking bottles, until I reminded myself that I just brewed it two weeks ago. Time to take a deep breath!

I was away for the weekend and when I got back, I found a pellicle forming on my Tart of Darkness clone. This is the first sour that I've brewed and I'm pretty excited. My wife and kids were horrified, but I feel like a proud father!

Isn't that a great feeling?! I remember my first pellicle...watching it grow up to be a respectable young sour, then maturing into a bold, tart flemmish red! Be proud Nid Hog!

Still no pellicle on mine after four weeks. Patience, grasshopper.

This thread is great. I'm looking to brew my first sour and was really leaning towards a stout because I LOVE this beer.

My question - I only have one primary 6.5 gal glass carboy, but several 5-gal secondaries (glass/Better Bottle). Would transferring this beer after 3-4 weeks hurt the souring process by removing too much yeast? As a twist, I'm thinking about racking onto cherries when I transfer. Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure it will hurt the souring process a little bit, just make sure you suck up as much of the yeast as possible when you transfer it. I love the idea of aging it on cherries but you may want to wait until it's aged a little longer.

Maybe put the cherries in when you add the oak cubes

aaronmrose said:

Would transferring this beer after 3-4 weeks hurt the souring process by removing too much yeast?

Click to expand...

Nope.

aaronmrose said:

As a twist, I'm thinking about racking onto cherries when I transfer. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

3 months before bottling is pretty standard.