Hop-stand Additions

As far as I can see, there are three reasonable strategies for adding hops during a hop stand.

1. Standard method: add hops at flame out, perform hop stand, then chill.

2. Chill wort to a certain temperature (e.g., 180), add hops, perform hop stand, finish chilling. The idea here is to find a temperature which will promote efficient extraction while minimizing destruction of aromatic compounds.

3. Use multiple hop additions in the hop stand (e.g., 1 at flameout, 1 at 190, 1 at 180, etc.). Given that different aromatic compounds extract and are destroyed at different temperatures, this method theoretically might allow for a more balanced extraction.

Has anyone done comparisons between different ways of performing a hop stand? Anyone know if any of the pros are doing similar things with whirlpool hops?

There's a guy in Yakima that adds hops when his front yard hop stand is low on stock. Then he performs the hop stand, by standing on one leg and hopping around on the other leg. You have to see it to appreciate the artistry, when he is performing the hop stand.

I've tried both (adding at flameout, and adding at like 180*), and didn't see any tangible difference. Albeit, I didn't do a split batch experiment.

Personally, I don't feel that you are 'destroying' volatile compounds with high temperatures. So once the wort is no longer boiling, I believe most of those compounds are staying in the wort. Cooling to 180*, should in theory only slow extraction.

At the end of the day, I'm lazy, so the hops go in when the flame goes off. I start a timer, and start chilling the wort when the timer goes 'ding'

How long do people do this? 5min? 20min? I always started chilling immediately but I'm new to this late-hops thing.

I do 10-15min. Diminishing returns set in. Play around with it though.

Personally, I don't feel that you are 'destroying' volatile compounds with high temperatures. So once the wort is no longer boiling, I believe most of those compounds are staying in the wort. Cooling to 180*, should in theory only slow extraction.

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I suppose 'destroy' wasn't the best word, but hop oils will volatilize more quickly at higher temperatures. That's just the nature of volatile compounds. Whether there is a significant difference between 210F and 180F remains to be seen.

How long do people do this? 5min? 20min? I always started chilling immediately but I'm new to this late-hops thing.

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20 - 40 minutes seems to be the most common among homebrewers, but pro brewers often whirlpool for significantly longer. There's a study cited in For the Love of Hops (p. 201) showing significant improvement in hop aroma with an 80 minute steep vs. a 50 minute steep.

Many people say you will lose much of that aroma from a hop stand during fermentation so maybe it's better to dry hop? I still think you get some great flavor with this technique.

Gavagai said:

20 - 40 minutes seems to be the most common among homebrewers, but pro brewers often whirlpool for significantly longer. There's a study cited in For the Love of Hops (p. 201) showing significant improvement in hop aroma with an 80 minute steep vs. a 50 minute steep.

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Ya, I remember reading that too. I thnk it's something people should really just experiment with. There's little risk involved, and you'll find what works well for you.

I found that 15min and 30min weren't much different, so 15min was good enough for me.

At what point is there a potential negative effect on cold break?

Hot Hop Additions (Simmering / Boiling Temps)
Approx. 180-212 F. @ the full length of your boil

Warm Hop Additions (Not Simmering / Not Scalding Hot)
Approx. 100-160 F @ 20-60 minutes depending on cooling method; lesser than this isn't doing much

Cold Hop Additions (Dryhop Temps)
Approx. 65-68 F @ 5-14 day dryhop, whether single stage or staggered

Any thoughts on how the use of gelatin to clear up the suspended yeast might affect the benefits of a hopstand?

I've been having great success with throwing in a large FO hop stand addition, giving it a good stir ("whirlpool"), then putting the lid on my BK and letting it sit for 30 minutes. This give excellent flavor extraction, the best I have ever achieved.

I have not had as great of luck with the "aroma" hop stand, which you should do in the 170-160F temp range. I think this week I am going to move to a small bittering addition at 60 minutes, maybe about 20-25 IBUs, and then get the rest of IBUs from a flavor hop stand, and skip the aroma. I will then rely on a dry hop and keg hop addition for aroma.

This all being for an IPA.

Source: http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands

scottland said:

Personally, I don't feel that you are 'destroying' volatile compounds with high temperatures. So once the wort is no longer boiling, I believe most of those compounds are staying in the wort. Cooling to 180*, should in theory only slow extraction.

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The flash points for at least two of the major essential hop oils (myrcene & humulene) are 90F and 103F, respectively. So you are absolutely losing volatile compounds with high wort temperatures.

Isomerization of alpha acids (humulone, adhumulone, cohumulone, etc.) is still occuring above 180F, so there will be bitterness/flavor development, but the major drivers of aroma and to a lesser extent, certain aspects of hop flavor are lost. This is why a warm/cold hop stand may be beneficial, just as there is really no 1:1 substitue in the boil/hopstand for dry-hopping.

Trying to research hopstand. I have only done this twice. I make, almost exclusively so far (but I’m only about 20 batches in about a yr), IPA’S. I like big aroma. I experimented allowing my kettle to “coast” down to 170* and then hopped. I manually whirlpooled down to 130* (covered once, uncovered once) then headed for the ice bath. This was advice from a buddy. Both batches turned out ok but I hope they could be better by evolving technique. I thought I was on the right track until I read this: “A hop stand in the 160–170 °F (71–77 °C) range will basically shut down the alpha acid isomerization reaction and the lower temperatures will reduce the vaporization of the essential oils. Homebrewers can use their wort chillers to bring the wort down to this range before adding the knockout hops or they can add a second dose of knockout hops.” In the BYO article here, http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands .I think I want shut down isomerization to pick up flavor and aroma, right? Question is since I went from ice bath to gravity plate chiller (I don’t have a copper chiller), how bad is it to coast down (covered/uncovered)? Am I going to have to figure out how to plate chill half or so of my wort and add back to kettle to get to 170*? Anybody else coasting?

bobbrews said:

Hot Hop Additions (Simmering / Boiling Temps)
Approx. 180-212 F. @ the full length of your boil

Warm Hop Additions (Not Simmering / Not Scalding Hot)
Approx. 100-160 F @ 20-60 minutes depending on cooling method; lesser than this isn't doing much

Cold Hop Additions (Dryhop Temps)
Approx. 65-68 F @ 5-14 day dryhop, whether single stage or staggered

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Personal experience / opinion or documented trials?

JustLooking said:

Personal experience / opinion or documented trials?

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Rookie here so I'm willing to try just about anything reasonable to improve my brews. You have experience with "coasting", or the covered/uncovered issue? I'll take it and try it. Thanks

DragonHead said:

Trying to research hopstand. I have only done this twice. I make, almost exclusively so far (but I’m only about 20 batches in about a yr), IPA’S. I like big aroma. I experimented allowing my kettle to “coast” down to 170* and then hopped. I manually whirlpooled down to 130* (covered once, uncovered once) then headed for the ice bath. This was advice from a buddy. Both batches turned out ok but I hope they could be better by evolving technique. I thought I was on the right track until I read this: “A hop stand in the 160–170 °F (71–77 °C) range will basically shut down the alpha acid isomerization reaction and the lower temperatures will reduce the vaporization of the essential oils. Homebrewers can use their wort chillers to bring the wort down to this range before adding the knockout hops or they can add a second dose of knockout hops.” In the BYO article here, http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands .I think I want shut down isomerization to pick up flavor and aroma, right? Question is since I went from ice bath to gravity plate chiller (I don’t have a copper chiller), how bad is it to coast down (covered/uncovered)? Am I going to have to figure out how to plate chill half or so of my wort and add back to kettle to get to 170*? Anybody else coasting?

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Thanks for posting. I brewed an IPA on Saturday night. I did a whirlpool addition of 1.5 oz Simcoe, 1.5 oz Citra. I planned to chill to 180F, cut the water (copper IC), add my addition and whirlpool using a pump/recirculating arm for 30 min. I should have cut the water sooner as the combination of ambient temps (garage was in 40s) and cold water in the chiller pushed the wort temp down to around 168F. I whirlpooled for 25 minutes, then chilled the rest of the way.

spenghali said:

I've been having great success with throwing in a large FO hop stand addition, giving it a good stir ("whirlpool"), then putting the lid on my BK and letting it sit for 30 minutes. This give excellent flavor extraction, the best I have ever achieved.
Source: http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands

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Do we need to worry about DMS issues with putting the lid on the kettle during a hopstand?

Only above 180F or so. Once it's below that, you can safely put the lid on, and should to keep those volatile hop oils from boiling away as much as possible.

opiate82 said:

Do we need to worry about DMS issues with putting the lid on the kettle during a hopstand?

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i throw the hops in right at flame out and put the lid on right away. in my case i have not detected DMS.

I have been experimenting with hop standing lately by making dry hopped SMASH pale ales. I add only a modest 60 minute addition - enough to hit your desired IBU as late hopping will not contribute to your IBU in any significant way (I have made some undesirably mild pales by thinking I would get any IBU from late hops). I then late hop with a medium-generous amount of hops after chilling partially. Here is an excerpt from a recent Citra pale ale I made using only a small amount of bittering hops and a medium hop stand addition (0 min hops = 3.2 oz Citra).
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Chilled to ~188* and added 0 min addition. Whirlpooled and covered with lid.
Performed 90 minute hop stand. Temperature dropped to 160*
Chilled to 70*. Let sit a few minutes, transferred to sanitized carboy, scraping screen with sanitized spoon.

This is my preferred method. I combine that with a modest dry hop (1 oz flowers) to get a beer that exhibits lighter citrus flavors than the heavier vegetal or spicy flavors (also depends on your hop selection, obviously). I've done this with Cascade and Centennial and will be trying with Chinook soon too.

I've hop standed for 60 and 90 minutes. I strongly recommend a longer hop stand, lid on. "If you can smell it, it's not going to end up in your beer."

wtfDean said:

I have been experimenting with hop standing lately by making dry hopped SMASH pale ales. I add only a modest 60 minute addition - enough to hit your desired IBU as late hopping will not contribute to your IBU in any significant way (I have made some undesirably mild pales by thinking I would get any IBU from late hops).

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i was experimenting with ALL flameout additions for about 5-6 batches and the first problem i ran into was beer that was too bitter. 4-5 oz of hops (high AA) at flameout for 30 min will blow out any beer. eventually i settled on staggering the times so the first oz at 0 min post flame out, then another at 15 min, then 2 oz at 25 min. this got all of the flavor, aroma and bitterness i wanted. i have not gone back to a 60 minute addition but recently i've started all hop additions at 15 minutes before flame out until 15 minutes after flameout.