Specialty IPA: White IPA Chainbreaker White IPA Clone

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m1ke

Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
17
Reaction score
5
Location
redmond
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Wyeast 3787
Yeast Starter
No
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.057
Final Gravity
1.012
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
55.8
Color
3.4
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
28
Tasting Notes
Nice cracked wheat flavor with citrus notes
I found this recipe in Zymurgy Volume 35 posted by Brian Faivre of Deschutes Brewery.

I am a fan of Chainbreaker, and this clone turned out awesome.

Ingredients:
------------
6 lbs 8.0 oz, Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz, Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz, Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

5.00 ml, Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins)
4.9 oz, Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for30 min]
0.12 oz, Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.34 oz, Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.00 oz, Bravo (Pellets) [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz, Citra (Pellets) [12.00 %] - knockout
1.00 oz, Centennial (Pellets) [10.00 %] - knockout
0.50 oz, Cascade (Pellets) [5.50 %] - knockout
0.9 pkg, Wyeast Labs #3787 Yeast, Trappist High Gravity

Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.9 oz
----------------------------
Step 1) 125.0 F, 15 min
Step 2) 145.0 F, 15 min
Step 3) 163.0 F, 20 min
Mash Out 172.0 F, 10 min

Ferment at 66 F for two days, then allow temperature to rise to 74 F until fermentation is complete. I let mine sit at 70 for one week, and then back to 66 F for the remainder of fermentation.

I dropped mine to 42 F for two days before kegging.
 
I made a beer pretty similar to this, based it off of the recipe on Deschutes website. I'll check my notes when I get home and post my recipe. I know I used different yeast and no Lactic acid but the grain bill and hopping schedule look identical. The beer turned out fantastic, I will certainly brew it again.
 
I made a beer pretty similar to this, based it off of the recipe on Deschutes website. I'll check my notes when I get home and post my recipe. I know I used different yeast and no Lactic acid but the grain bill and hopping schedule look identical. The beer turned out fantastic, I will certainly brew it again.

Please do share. I don't mind picking up the lactic acid, but I don't have it now. Also, I definitely would need to find the yeast, as well.
 
Please do share. I don't mind picking up the lactic acid, but I don't have it now. Also, I definitely would need to find the yeast, as well.

Here was my recipe, turned out fantastic.


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
5 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 2 20.4 %
2 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
0.75 oz Falconers Flight [10.50 %] - First Wort Hop 4 15.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 27.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 2.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 1.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 12 -
1.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) [35 Yeast 14 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
 
Not trying to hijack the thread, but Coff, can you PM me your complete recipe/og/fg/mash temp/etc?
 
Not a hijack really, the point is to clone this beer right? I'll just keep it in the thread.

My notes on this beer kind of suck but I have some info in beersmith. I mashed at 152f for 60 mins 168f sparge to full boil volume, boiled for 90mins. My target OG was 1.057 but I over shot it by a bit and finished at 1.061, efficiency was higher than normal Im usually dead on 70% efficiency. Beer finishhed a tad drier than I had expected to, finished at 1.010 I was shooting for 1.012. The beer didnt suffer however and turned out very very good, one of the better beers I brewed this summer albeit a full 1% stronger than expected. Fermented at 68f for 2 weeks, ramped to 74f for 2 days to finish it off, that may have helped attenuate it further than I wanted.
 
Thanks Coff, I'm going to attempt to combine these two recipes. I've had chainbreaker and really liked it. I think some grains of paradise are in order, I remember it having a faint pepper taste.
 
fwiw, I felt the coriander along with the WLP400 lent a very nice spice to the beer. It wasnt in your face but you would pick it up in the middle of the palate.

I will say that the color on mine was off from that of Chainbreaker, mine was more golden in color. I ran a few side by side tastings of mine and Chainbreaker (although these might not have been fair bc I think some of the hop character had fallen out of the commercial version and mine was pretty fresh) but in the tasting 3 of my friends who's opinions I value chose the homebrewed version.

Let us know how it turns out, I plan to brew this again with some minor teaks for color.
 
I also examined the Deschutes brewerey website and figured out my own clone. The grain bill and hop schedule is similar, but I used a different yeast and no lactic acid. The beer turned out to be friggin' fantastic. My friends even liked my homebrew better than Chainbreaker when we did a side-by-side tasting: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/chainbreaker-white-ipa-clone-sort-354037/

:mug:

We should combine all of these recipes and make the ultimate White IPA. Just sayin'...
 
I just finished a mix-n-match of these two recipes! The color looks good, the taste is awesome. Waiting for fermentation now... I'll probably wait to post everything until I know it's drinkable (*wink*), but so far the wort tastes awesome and the color is definitely white. Hooray!

(I have one bottle of Chainbreaker left in the fridge. Going to try to wait on drinking it until we're carbed so we can compare)
 
Coff was your recipe for a 10 gallon batch?

Dont worry about the 75 minute boil, that was just bc I was a little higher on volume after the sparge.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 13.73 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.54 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 10.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 4.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.6 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
17 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 71.4 %
5 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 2 20.4 %
2 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
0.75 oz Falconers Flight [10.50 %] - First Wort Hop 4 15.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Bravo [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 27.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 2.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 1.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.1 IBUs
1.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 12 -
1.50 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) [35 Yeast 14 -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
 
Just to supplement, here's the conversion to extract from the same Zymergy recipe the OP used (haven't tried this myself yet so can't vouch for how well it turns out):

Substitute 5.25 lb pale malt extract syrup for the pils malt and 2.5 lb wheat malt extract syrup for the malted and unmalted wheat. Be sure to dissolve extracts completely before proceeding with the boil.

However, I think the extract recipe from Zymergy fails to take into account that wheat LME is not 100% wheat (for instance, Briess Wheat LME is 65/35 wheat/barley). Using the standard formula of LME = Whole Grain * .75, and assuming a 65/35 wheat/barley ratio in the wheat LME, I come up with the following:

  • To match the all-grain recipe's wheat/barley ratio, I want 2.8 lb pure wheat extract in my wort (2.25 lb Wheat Malt + 1.5 lb Flaked Wheat * .75 conversion factor) + 4.9 lb pure barley extract (6.5 lb 2 Row * .75 conversion factor)
  • I should therefore use 4.3 lb of Wheat LME, which should contain 2.8 lb wheat (4.3 lb * .65) and 1.5 lb barley (4.3 * .35).
  • I should also use 3.4 lb of Pilsner LME to get my total barley quantity up to 4.9 lb (this is added to the 1.5 lb barley content in the Wheat LME).

Also, does anyone have advice on if/when to add the 5 ml lactic acid to an extract brew? I don't know if it's supposed to change the water chemistry for all grain brewers in some way that wouldn't be necessary for extract brewers, or if it is adding a desired sour flavor and should still be included in an extract version (in the boil, during fermentation, or even at bottling?)
 
For those of you that have brewed this beer (or one similar), how long did you let it sit in secondary? I'm keeping min in primary for two weeks and thinking of letting it sit in secondary for just one week, but I am also thinking two would be good... Any suggestions?
 
I dont really secondary, i guess I kind of do since I keg but...I just did a 2-3 weeks primary, kegged, then dry hopped in the keg, carbed and served.
 
Sounds fantastic. I'll be brewing this soon. I'm surprised that there isn't any dry hopping in this recipe, though. On smell/taste alone, I'd have sworn than it was dry hopped.
 
Brewed this today using the stepped mash and lactic acid but with Coff's grain and hops profile and pitched onto part of a WLP400 cake. Ended up with a lot higher efficiency than I expected, putting me at 1.070 (switched to a milling my grain twice). Everything smells great and wort tasted delicious, so I can't wait to try the final product. Thanks for the recipe.
 
Brewed a version last Saturday. I made a few changes from what I'd originally intended based on availability of things at the LHBS. Biggest things of note:
- Opted to not do a dual step mash in the more classic Wit style
- Was almost out of propane and had trouble getting the step mash additions to boil in time so little bit longer mash time.
- No Bravo hops available so used Columbus and a little leftover Pacific Jade to bring it up to target IBU for bittering.
- Forgot to get the lactic acid so omitted.
- Used Pacman yeast as I had some on hand that needed to be used.
- Lower than normal efficiency at 68%. Not sure if this was due to lower diastatic power of the wheat or if something has changed at LHBS. Last three batches have all hovered between 65- 70% efficiency whereas I had regularly gotten around 80% for the last year.

Here is the recipe as brewed:
Batch Size (Gallons): 6
Original Gravity: 1.054
Estimated IBU: 56
Boiling Time (Minutes): 75
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 28
Tasting Notes: Nice cracked wheat flavor with citrus notes


Ingredients:
------------
7.0# oz, Pilsner
3.5# oz, White Wheat Malt
2.0# Flaked Wheat
1.0# Rice Hulls
6 oz, Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
0.25 oz, Coriander Seed (crushed) (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.75 oz, Sweet Orange Peel, (Boil 10.0 mins)

Hops:
1.5 oz, Columbus First Wort
.25 oz Pacific Jade First Wort
.5 Centennial 30 min.
1 oz, Citra knockout
.50 oz, Centennial knockout
.50 oz, Cascade (Pellets) knockout
.25 oz, Centennial Dry Hop 14 days
.25 oz, Cascade Dry Hop 14 days
.50 oz, Citra Dry Hop 14 days



Wyeast 1764 Pacman

Mash Schedule:
----------------------------
Step 1) 125.0 F, 25 min
Step 2) 145.0 F, 25 min
Step 3) 163.0 F, 20 min
Mash Out 170.0 F, 10 min
 
Also, worth noting that this was the first time I've used Pacman. I did not make a yeast starter, but had airlock activity in about five hours after pitching. The smack pack package was so swollen at pitching that I was nervous of an explosion when cutting it open!
 
Tasting tonight alongside a Chainbreaker.

Appearance - the clone is a couple degrees darker than the original, a little more amber than the straw colored Chainbreaker. It also lacks the full Haines of the original. Both poured about 1.5 finger head of nice fine foam with good retention.
Smell - both have nice citrus aromas and a sort of green grassiness though the Chainbreaker is more pronounced. It also has a slightly spicier note, probably from the yeast. The coriander comes through more clearly in the Chainbreaker but is present in both.
Taste - both taste great but there is substantial difference. Hops in the clone are on the forefront in flavor as well as bitterness. The malt character is more nuanced in the original probably from use of unmalted wheat and a step mash. The clone is more citrusy with only a bit of the citra tropical flavors and coriander evident.
Mouthfeel - the Chainbreaker wins this one with a nice light effervescence that rolls across my palate before finishing crisp. My clone, while pleasant, is thicker and finishes a bit warmer and sweeter. Odd from what I've read about Pacman being a really clean and efficient yeast.

Overall both are fine beers but the clone needs some tweaking. The hops will likely mellow with time and bring out more of the malt character, but at this point they are a bit of a distraction. Bravo as the bittering would probably help as well. Also would either try the trappist yeast recommended in the original post or propagate yeast from a bottle of chainbreaker. To get the srm closer I suppose scaling back on the flaked wheat and/or might help along with bumping up ratio of pilsner malt.
 
5 ml of lactic acid is an ass and a half load. For just adjusting the mash ph, I normally use about 1.5ml for about 32L of water. Are you tossing it in during mash or adding it in just before the boil?
 
Brewed this today using the stepped mash and lactic acid but with Coff's grain and hops profile and pitched onto part of a WLP400 cake. Ended up with a lot higher efficiency than I expected, putting me at 1.070 (switched to a milling my grain twice). Everything smells great and wort tasted delicious, so I can't wait to try the final product. Thanks for the recipe.

Have you tried the finished product yet? Will be interested to hear what you think of the taste having used the full 5 ml lactic acid. I'm brewing this week (extract) and am planning to pass on the acid since people here generally seem to think it sounds like a lot of acid and I don't think of this as a "sour" beer. But I guess that's something that could be added on the back end to taste anyway?

Also, how many volumes of carbonation did people use on this one? Seems like it could go higher (say 2.5-3) as a wheat beer, or lower (2-2.5) as an IPA. Haven't had the original in a while though and don't remember how that was carbed.
 
The final product is great and I didn't really notice any sourness. I think the citrus flavors from all the hops complements the acid, but I could be crazy. I added the acid when I started the boil, just FYI.
 
Just to supplement, here's the conversion to extract from the same Zymergy recipe the OP used (haven't tried this myself yet so can't vouch for how well it turns out):

Substitute 5.25 lb pale malt extract syrup for the pils malt and 2.5 lb wheat malt extract syrup for the malted and unmalted wheat. Be sure to dissolve extracts completely before proceeding with the boil.

However, I think the extract recipe from Zymergy fails to take into account that wheat LME is not 100% wheat (for instance, Briess Wheat LME is 65/35 wheat/barley). Using the standard formula of LME = Whole Grain * .75, and assuming a 65/35 wheat/barley ratio in the wheat LME, I come up with the following:

  • To match the all-grain recipe's wheat/barley ratio, I want 2.8 lb pure wheat extract in my wort (2.25 lb Wheat Malt + 1.5 lb Flaked Wheat * .75 conversion factor) + 4.9 lb pure barley extract (6.5 lb 2 Row * .75 conversion factor)
  • I should therefore use 4.3 lb of Wheat LME, which should contain 2.8 lb wheat (4.3 lb * .65) and 1.5 lb barley (4.65 * .35).
  • I should also use 3.4 lb of Pilsner LME to get my total barley quantity up to 4.9 lb (this is added to the 1.5 lb barley content in the Wheat LME).

Also, does anyone have advice on if/when to add the 5 ml lactic acid to an extract brew? I don't know if it's supposed to change the water chemistry for all grain brewers in some way that wouldn't be necessary for extract brewers, or if it is adding a desired sour flavor and should still be included in an extract version (in the boil, during fermentation, or even at bottling?)

I made the extract version as laid out in my post above but omitted the lactic acid, kegged and carbed to 2.5 vols. It was enjoyable - very little aroma and significant hop bitterness, with some grapefruit. Hard to make out the orange and coriander. Reminded me of the very first beer I brewed, a clone of 3 Floyds Gumballhead. So overall a tasty beer but not quite what I'd expected.

However it didn't compare well to the commercial brew. Color was much darker (not surprising given past experience with wheat extract, seems impossible to match the color of a commercial wheat beer). The commercial brew had significant aroma and more of a citrus "bite", as well as higher carbonation. Overall I preferred the commercial version.

Did a bit of fiddling after the first few days (probably down to 4 gallons by this point) -- upped carbonation to 3 vols, added 3.75 mls lactic acid, and dry hopped with 1 oz Citra (in a hop bag, will just leave in the keg until it is kicked). The lactic acid and carbonation bring it much closer to the commercial brew. I would do 4 mls / 5 gallons next time. The dry hops give a nice aroma and I'm glad I added them, though it definitely makes mine hoppier than the commercial version. I would probably do .5 oz dry hops next time.
 
I found this recipe in Zymurgy Volume 35 posted by Brian Faivre of Deschutes Brewery.

I am a fan of Chainbreaker, and this clone turned out awesome.

Ingredients:
------------
6 lbs 8.0 oz, Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs 4.0 oz, Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz, Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)

5.00 ml, Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins)
4.9 oz, Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for30 min]
0.12 oz, Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.34 oz, Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.00 oz, Bravo (Pellets) [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz, Citra (Pellets) [12.00 %] - knockout
1.00 oz, Centennial (Pellets) [10.00 %] - knockout
0.50 oz, Cascade (Pellets) [5.50 %] - knockout
0.9 pkg, Wyeast Labs #3787 Yeast, Trappist High Gravity

Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 8.9 oz
----------------------------
Step 1) 125.0 F, 15 min
Step 2) 145.0 F, 15 min
Step 3) 163.0 F, 20 min
Mash Out 172.0 F, 10 min

Ferment at 66 F for two days, then allow temperature to rise to 74 F until fermentation is complete. I let mine sit at 70 for one week, and then back to 66 F for the remainder of fermentation.

I dropped mine to 42 F for two days before kegging.

Forgive me, I'm a newbie to step mash. I have a cooler MT and HLT, how would I do a multi-step mash in that system?
 
Hi Kevin -

The easiest way is to do it with your system is to initially use a pretty thick mash (1 gallon/pound of grain) and add boiling water to move up in the mashes. There are online calculators and brewing software than can help with volumes needed. Here is a simple one:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

This can result in a thin mash at the end. I've taken to doing just two steps if possible. Understanding what each step accomplishes is another thing altogether and there are a lot of good threads on the subject on this forum. Hope that helps!
 
Apologies, I have found this in BeerSmith and updated as nessesary. Sorry for the noise!
 
So officially a house constant now after tuning in the recipe for our efficiency. Finally made a starter to save some on the side for the future and this thing is still going crazy after a week in the fermenter. Can hear a bubble almost every 2 seconds coming through the blow off tube. Can't wait for another 5 gallons of this to be ready.
 
5 ml of lactic acid is an ass and a half load. For just adjusting the mash ph, I normally use about 1.5ml for about 32L of water. Are you tossing it in during mash or adding it in just before the boil?

The 5 ml of lactic acid was added directly to the mash and produced some noticeable sourness. I haven't tried this recipe without the lactic acid, but I can imagine it might lack some complexity.

I'm planning to brew this again soon, but doubt that I'll modify the recipe at all... it seemed very close to Chainbreaker, IMHO.

:mug:
 
The 5 ml of lactic acid was added directly to the mash and produced some noticeable sourness. I haven't tried this recipe without the lactic acid, but I can imagine it might lack some complexity.

I'm planning to brew this again soon, but doubt that I'll modify the recipe at all... it seemed very close to Chainbreaker, IMHO.

:mug:

Thank you for clarifying.
 
Brewed this recipe yesterday. I had to make a couple substitutions. I could not find Bravo hops so I replaced them with Australian Galaxy hops. I was also unable to find the lactic acid. Besides that, the process went quite smoothly. This was my first recipe where I took the reigns and it was a lot of fun! Definitely one of the harder brews I've tried and I can't wait to taste the final product. Thanks for posting this recipe !
 
The lactic acid portion is quite interesting. From what I've read (and I may be and probably am wrong) lactic acid will keep doing it's work on making a beer sour until the bacteria is killed with the boil.

If that part is true here's what I find interesting. Depending on how fast or slow each brewer gets his wort to that degree where the bacteria is killed a different level of sour will be achieved for each brewer.

Example:
Brewer A has his propane burner right up next to his kettle and uses 5 mL of lactic acid but gets his wort up to boil in say twenty minutes.

Brewer B has his propane burner lower than A and is using a keggle which raises the height even more. Because of this his wort doesn't come to a boil until an hour has passed.

Now if I'm right they've both used the same amount of lactic acid but brewer B's beer will have more of a sour taste?

Saxo would you mind posting your final recipe? I'd be curious to see someone's recipe that's kind of combined both of the original. I'll be making a 10 gallon batch of this...well more like 11 but whatever.
 
Marc77 said:
The lactic acid portion is quite interesting. From what I've read (and I may be and probably am wrong) lactic acid will keep doing it's work on making a beer sour until the bacteria is killed with the boil. If that part is true here's what I find interesting. Depending on how fast or slow each brewer gets his wort to that degree where the bacteria is killed a different level of sour will be achieved for each brewer. Example: Brewer A has his propane burner right up next to his kettle and uses 5 mL of lactic acid but gets his wort up to boil in say twenty minutes. Brewer B has his propane burner lower than A and is using a keggle which raises the height even more. Because of this his wort doesn't come to a boil until an hour has passed. Now if I'm right they've both used the same amount of lactic acid but brewer B's beer will have more of a sour taste? Saxo would you mind posting your final recipe? I'd be curious to see someone's recipe that's kind of combined both of the original. I'll be making a 10 gallon batch of this...well more like 11 but whatever.

I think you're thinking about Lactobacillus, which lives on the outside of grain in every beer. The difference in a few minutes doesn't make a difference in if the beer is sour or not, it would take 2-3 days for the beer to really sour, see sour mash.

In my batch I didn't use the Lactic acid and loved the beer, 5ml seems like a lot if only for adjusting mash PH but I would guess that was the original reason for it. I don't get any sourness in the commercial version.
 
Lactic acid won't make a beer more sour with more time. You are confusing it with lactobasillus, which like the poster above me stated, is present on grain and you can sour the mash if you don't bring it to a boil within a certain amount of time. The time before souring starts depends on how long the wort is allowed get below around 120-130 (? not sure) degrees.
 
Interesting. I'm still getting into the all grain as I'm in the final stages of setting up my MLT and boil kettle to handle 10 gallon batches. No WAY am I trying to lift a 20 gallon pot with 10 gallons of boiling wort!

Coff, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on doing a protein rest for the White Malt. The one I'm looking at using is from midwest supplies and says that it requires a protein rest in the mash. I was thinking I could do a protein rest at 125f for 45-60 minutes and sparge your 152f for 60 minutes. But how long did you do your 168f sparge for? I know it says to full boil volume and then do a 90 minute boil. But were you fly sparging? Is it another 60 minutes (I'd be batch sparging).

Thoughts?
 
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