Cooling down extract after boiling

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dibby33

dibby33

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I have just started experimenting with extract brewing (ye olde ripper was my first - the others were just kits with extras added).

The problem I have is cooling it down after boiling with the hops. I only have time to brew in the evening and need to cool the boil down quickly so I can get to sleep :)

The ideas I have so far are :
1. Freezing blocks of ice and adding them instead of the water.
2. Water and salt in the bath and putting the barrel in there - works for fish!
3. Leaving it over night and setting my alarm for 3am! Not my best option.

...if you have 1 litre of water at 100 degrees C and 1 litre of ice (i.e. 0 degrees C) if you add them together do you get 2 litres of water at 50 degrees C?
 
How many gals do you boil?

I only boil 1.5 gals. I place 4-1 gal jugs in the freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing. After the wort is poured into the primary I top it off with the freezer water. Temps are down into the high 60s/low 70s in minutes.:D
 
dibby33 said:
I have just started experimenting with extract brewing (ye olde ripper was my first - the others were just kits with extras added).

The problem I have is cooling it down after boiling with the hops. I only have time to brew in the evening and need to cool the boil down quickly so I can get to sleep :)

The ideas I have so far are :
1. Freezing blocks of ice and adding them instead of the water.
2. Water and salt in the bath and putting the barrel in there - works for fish!
3. Leaving it over night and setting my alarm for 3am! Not my best option.

...if you have 1 litre of water at 100 degrees C and 1 litre of ice (i.e. 0 degrees C) if you add them together do you get 2 litres of water at 50 degrees C?
Click to expand...

1. Good idea if you can guarantee that the ice is sanitized. Bad idea otherwise. (Possible infections.)
2. A cold water bath works. An iced water bath works even better. A salted iced water bath would be marginally better than an unsalted one. Salt without ice is a waste of salt.
3. I just love to wake up at 3 AM to do what I should have done before I went to sleep. :)

1 liter of water + i liter ice will result in slightly less than 2 liters as ice is less dense than water (which is why it floats), but 1 Kg of water + 1 Kg of ice will equal 2 Kg ow water.

1 liter of water at 100 C + 1 liter of ice at 0 C will result in a little under 2 liters of water at less that 50 C. (It takes a large number of calories to convert ice to water), so the water will be cooled by more than the ice - converted to water - warms up. Sorry, I cannot remember what the ratio is as that brain cell has died.

-a.
 
Ye olde ripper had 7 litres (1.8 of your US Gallons) but by the time 6Kg of malt extract was added it filled about 12 litres (3.1 Gallons).

The problem with the heat retention would have been due to the high sugar concentrate me thinx. I don't normally make them this strong (normally around 5-6) but I felt like a change :drunk:

I just had never heard of putting frozen / freezer chilled water in. sounds a lot simplier! Even just icecream cartons filled and ready to go would be helpful (assuming they are small enough to fit through the lid of the barrel!)

Cheers

...now where is that icecream!:D
 
First. Dumb question. Man, I know this is dumb, but I don't know the answer so I'll just come right out and ask... What if you just dropped some Dry Ice into it? You could have it chilled in less than 30 seconds. Seriously, would that work? There's a hardware store that sells dry ice for a buck or two a pound.


On to more serious methods.

Ice method 1: Put water into a ziplock bag. Put the bag in a pot of boiling water along with another ziplock bag. Take the bag out, put the bag full of water inside it, and seal the outer bag. Throw it in your freezer overnight. When ready to chill the wort, remove the outer bag and toss in the inner bag.

Option 2. Immersion Chiller: Go to Home depot, buy 20' of 3/8" copper tubing, some vinyl tubing to fit over it, and a stopper that will fit into your kitchen faucet. Put the tube through the stopper (drilling may be necessary), connect it to the copper. Coil the copper to fit in the pot. Connect another piece of tubing to run from the coil to the sink drain. Turn on the faucet, the water runs through at 40 degrees and comes out at 180 degrees or so.

Option 3: Ice bath, with or without ice.
 
ajf said:
1. Good idea if you can guarantee that the ice is sanitized. Bad idea otherwise. (Possible infections.)
2. A cold water bath works. An iced water bath works even better. A salted iced water bath would be marginally better than an unsalted one. Salt without ice is a waste of salt.
3. I just love to wake up at 3 AM to do what I should have done before I went to sleep. :)

1 liter of water + i liter ice will result in slightly less than 2 liters as ice is less dense than water (which is why it floats), but 1 Kg of water + 1 Kg of ice will equal 2 Kg ow water.

1 liter of water at 100 C + 1 liter of ice at 0 C will result in a little under 2 liters of water at less that 50 C. (It takes a large number of calories to convert ice to water), so the water will be cooled by more than the ice - converted to water - warms up. Sorry, I cannot remember what the ratio is as that brain cell has died.

-a.
Click to expand...

Sorry - forgot to add the ice to the bath :eek:

Ta for your explaination - it makes sense.
:mug:
 
Toot said:
First. Dumb question. Man, I know this is dumb, but I don't know the answer so I'll just come right out and ask... What if you just dropped some Dry Ice into it? You could have it chilled in less than 30 seconds. Seriously, would that work? There's a hardware store that sells dry ice for a buck or two a pound.


On to more serious methods.

Ice method 1: Put water into a ziplock bag. Put the bag in a pot of boiling water along with another ziplock bag. Take the bag out, put the bag full of water inside it, and seal the outer bag. Throw it in your freezer overnight. When ready to chill the wort, remove the outer bag and toss in the inner bag.

Option 2. Immersion Chiller: Go to Home depot, buy 20' of 3/8" copper tubing, some vinyl tubing to fit over it, and a stopper that will fit into your kitchen faucet. Put the tube through the stopper (drilling may be necessary), connect it to the copper. Coil the copper to fit in the pot. Connect another piece of tubing to run from the coil to the sink drain. Turn on the faucet, the water runs through at 40 degrees and comes out at 180 degrees or so.

Option 3: Ice bath, with or without ice.
Click to expand...


I like the dry ice idea. I am in Tasmania though and maybe a little difficult to obtain. Would look good though - like some mad experiement

The copper pipe is worth a try, the only problem would be the temperature of the water coming out of the tap being warm in the summer (even for cold tap!)

I think my best bet is to make clean ice blocks. SHMBO did mention about buying a chest freezer :)
Putting jugs in the freezer is not an option as my beer fridge does not have enough space and "food" freezer is normally full of food.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
How many gals do you boil?

I only boil 1.5 gals. I place 4-1 gal jugs in the freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing. After the wort is poured into the primary I top it off with the freezer water. Temps are down into the high 60s/low 70s in minutes.:D
Click to expand...


Sorry Dibby, this is :off: Please pardon.

HB, do you really just boil 1.5 gallons? I assume you don't have any problems with carmelization because of your late extract addition technique. I've heard so many people rave about full boils that I felt like it was almost mandatory. What do you think?

monk
 
Toot said:
Ice method 1: Put water into a ziplock bag. Put the bag in a pot of boiling water along with another ziplock bag. Take the bag out, put the bag full of water inside it, and seal the outer bag. Throw it in your freezer overnight. When ready to chill the wort, remove the outer bag and toss in the inner bag.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that melt the plastic if you put it in boiling water?
 
Torchiest said:
Wouldn't that melt the plastic if you put it in boiling water?
Click to expand...
Shouldn't do. I use the same bags for freezing food (i.e. chilli con carni) and just shove them in the microwave with no problems, some spots of the bag must get above 100degrees and no problems.
 
I think dry ice is CO2. You will need as much oxygen in the primary to get the yeast kicking at the start.
 
o2phly said:
I think dry ice is CO2. You will need as much oxygen in the primary to get the yeast kicking at the start.
Click to expand...

That's correct. But I'm thinking you could chill the wort in all of 2 minutes and then begin aerating it...
 
Torchiest said:
Wouldn't that melt the plastic if you put it in boiling water?
Click to expand...

I've never brewed... but I've boiled bags before. Seems to work fine, though it prolly depends on the bag quality. You might want to make a test run.
 
dibby33 said:
I like the dry ice idea. I am in Tasmania though and maybe a little difficult to obtain. Would look good though - like some mad experiement

The copper pipe is worth a try, the only problem would be the temperature of the water coming out of the tap being warm in the summer (even for cold tap!)

I think my best bet is to make clean ice blocks. SHMBO did mention about buying a chest freezer :)
Putting jugs in the freezer is not an option as my beer fridge does not have enough space and "food" freezer is normally full of food.
Click to expand...

You can also hook the copper tubing up to a cooler or a tub, run it downhill via siphon through the tubing, and out. This would allow you to use ice in the water to make it cold.
 
Monk said:
Sorry Dibby, this is :off: Please pardon.

HB, do you really just boil 1.5 gallons? I assume you don't have any problems with carmelization because of your late extract addition technique. I've heard so many people rave about full boils that I felt like it was almost mandatory. What do you think?

monk
Click to expand...
There are about as many ways to brew as there are recipes...just like soup.

Yes, I really only boil 1.5 gals. I've been doing it for years. I've only started the late addition earlier this year. Now I just add 1 lb of malt to the boil and the full bittering hop amount, boil for 45 mins then add everything else.

Last night I changed up and added the "everything else" at 45 mins then let it steep for 20 mins without another boil. We'll see how that works.:D
 
I think dry ice in boiling wort would be worth trying if you have good health insurance and wanted some time off work. I suspect it would be like the time my lab partner dropped the sodium into a beaker of water, but a much larger explosion with scalding wort.

I've had plenty of fun just putting dry ice in a punch bowl. [Note to self: dry ice first, then punch]
 
Torchiest said:
Wouldn't that melt the plastic if you put it in boiling water?
Click to expand...

I really like the idea of the bag of ice. I may have to try this. Freezer bags will not melt if they are boiled...

:off: We have family over for breakfast often. One of the favorite things to fix are omelets in a bag. Have dishes set out with all of the toppings (cheese, crumbled bacon, peppers, etc.). Everyone writes their name on a zip-lock freezer bag and fills it with the toppings they want. Crack two eggs into each bag and add a bit of milk. Seal the bags and mash them up really well. Then drop them all into the boiling water for 13-14 minutes. Voila, everyone gets omelets at the same time. They plop right out of the bag and can be further garnished, like with more cheese. :off: :D
 
What I did before having large brew pot and chillers was to boil water in the largest cooking pot I had (which was not going to be my brewpot) the night before. Let it sit covered overnight and then place in fridge 1st thing in the morning (covered). Then when I brewed that night after the boil used the ice bath with frequent stirring with sanatized spoon for @ 30 min while also agatating the ice bath often. This would bring the boiling wort down some. At that point then add the chilled water from the pot in the fridge and top off to the final volume with tap water if needed. This was then at around the right temp to pitch the yeast.
 
fezzman said:
I really like the idea of the bag of ice. I may have to try this. Freezer bags will not melt if they are boiled...

:off: We have family over for breakfast often. One of the favorite things to fix are omelets in a bag. Have dishes set out with all of the toppings (cheese, crumbled bacon, peppers, etc.). Everyone writes their name on a zip-lock freezer bag and fills it with the toppings they want. Crack two eggs into each bag and add a bit of milk. Seal the bags and mash them up really well. Then drop them all into the boiling water for 13-14 minutes. Voila, everyone gets omelets at the same time. They plop right out of the bag and can be further garnished, like with more cheese. :off: :D
Click to expand...

That's smart!!!! I like that!!!!
 
Thanks everybody. Looks like blocks of ice are the go. I will get around to a pipe based cooling system when I get the time (not looking good, something about finishing an extension on the house first - (shmbo))

P.S. Have not tried the egg in a bag recipe yet, but next Sunday morning is a go.
 
Had a dream last night about brewing!

Instead of putting the cold water through the cooling coil why not pour the wort through it. The coil sits in the eski (water / ice / salt) and the exit point is at the side as usual.


...to clean attach fishing line to a small weight (like a washer / nut) and once threaded through to the other side attach a small brush with line attached and clean whilst water running through?

Am I making any sense, or is this just not going to work! :)

or is this already in use!!!
 
I like the dry ice idea. I am in Tasmania though and maybe a little difficult to obtain. Would look good though - like some mad experiement

I love this dry ice idea. Now that was a new one. Plus the sight of giant white bubbles coming out of your wort would be sure to impress your friends, wife, kids, pets, etc. The only possible downside I can think of is that dry ice would pump CO2 into the wort acidifing it. But isn't that what the yeast does anyway? Also, dry ice hitting boiling, saturated sugar water could cause a rather violent reaction. Add slowly or you could have a BIG mess.

Brillient idea david_42. This may add a whole 'nother dimension to home brewing. You could call the batch "Witches Brew". Toil and trouble, boil and bubble...
 

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