$700+ to go to 5 Gallon setup...help please

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Calichusetts

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So my wife gave me the freedom to go to 5 gallon and buy anything I wanted. She even recommended the blichmann kit form midwest which is about $800.

Now no flaming, but I LOVE 1 gallon! I don't have to go outside, I use 16oz bottles and get a 6-pack, which makes bottling a dream! Carboys are easy to carry and fit in my minifridge for lagering and crashing,etc.

So I am still hesitant to go to 5 gallons (10 gallon kettles) and will most likely move up to 22oz bottles when I do and use the kettle for 3 gallon batches to start off I of course have my eyes on the "top-line" blichmann but I think the blichmann are just too expensive and maybe overpriced. Its more of an opportunity cost issue for me, I can buy kettles and much more with $700 but if they are really worth it I will consider them. So here is the breakdown of what I want:

8-10 gallon boil kettles...two of them with false bottoms...I like the blichmann idea of a snap in dip tube but is it really necessary? I have 10 thumbs so unless its super easy to install (no drilling for me...might as well get blichmann) I want it to come with the kettle. I'll use one as a mash tun and the other as my HLT/boil kettle...I have pots to capture the wort after the first runnings so two should do. And this way I could "upgrade" with another kettle and do double batches at once later in life.

I do not want a a sight gauge (my only issue with blichmann)...I think they are useless and would rather have a lower thermometer to ensure even heating than a sight gauge (I've heard bad things about the thermometer placement with almost all kettles...is this correct that they are generally too high?). I also think auto-sparge, sparge arms are unecessary. I will be batch sparging like I still do

Obviously I will have to buy new carboys, burners and tubing so hopefully the kettles can come in at 500-600, that would be great. I have looked at polarware, megapot, boilermaker, morebeer. So just looking for input or any companies that are often overlooked or less known who can help with this. I've read many reviews but have virtually no experience with these batch sizes and kettles. Wrapping my head around weldless and welded fittings so please help here...leaking issues, etc.

Thanks guys...looking forward to your input...links are encouraged! Really appreciate what you can bring to the table.
 
Couple quick thoughts from a guy who started off small over 2 years ago and has been buying/upgrading stuff ever since:

- when you go up to bigger batches, site gauges are very handy; I could see how your mini-batches don't require them, but once you start measuing things in 4-8 gallon sizes for strike/sparge/runoff/etc., you will appreciate them

- Blichmanns are nice but can eat up your total budget real quick....there are many vendors out there now with great prices on kettles and other vendors with great accessories so you can build your own from the ground up

- save some cash for other thing by using a cooler for your MLT. I know they aren't fancy or cool & shiney, but they have always worked so well for me. Put the savings towards a nicer BK, a BK and a HLT, a chiller, etc.

- Start saving for a kegging system. Eventually you will take the plunge and you will want at least 5 gallons every time you brew. So the more you save on equipment now.....

Just my 2 cents obviously
 
Thanks guys...sort of avoided the cooler MLT subconciously...my only reasoning is that instead of doing decoctions or step mashes...you can direct fire it on a stove/burner and be lazy...but it would save some money.

What do you guys have for kettles?
 
Thanks guys...sort of avoided the cooler MLT subconciously...my only reasoning is that instead of doing decoctions or step mashes...you can direct fire it on a stove/burner and be lazy...but it would save some money.

What do you guys have for kettles?

Well, you can't do decoctions in your MLT. But you can do step mashes by direct firing your kettle MLT. I almost never do step mashes, and if I do, I do a decoction so that's not an issue for me. But I do ramp to mash out temps with my HERMs. This is in a cooler MLT, and I'm building a keg MLT now for bigger batches.

One thing about using kettles for an MLT is that while it looks nice, it doesn't maintain heat that well so it needs to be insulated or something like a HERMS used. Kettles lose heat.

Anyway, that's a choice that is up to you. I just thought I'd point that out because it's something to think about.
 
Shop around, you should be able to get good 10 gallon pots with valve, thermometer and sight gauge for less that $200.

I bought two very heavy duty 10 gallon pots off Craigslist for $100. I added kettle valve kits from Northern Brewer to both. I made one into a HLT with a sight gauge from brewhardware.com, Bobby_m. I use a converted 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler as my mash tun.

I have spent about $1100 on my equipment, total since day 1. Since July first, I now have made 19 batches.
 
I'm kind of curious as to why you seem so set against drilling yourself. From personal experience, with the correct tool - use a good corded or cordless drill and a _good_ step bit - not the cheap step bit from bargain fittings, but drop $40 on a nice Irwin bit - you can drill a perfect hole in 5 minutes, easy. And that opens up a lot of options - you can pick up an 10 gallon bayou classic stainless steel pot for $70 or $80 from amazon and then take your pick of fittings from bobby_m or bargainfittings.com, place them where you want them on your kettle, and come in well under the price tag of the Blichmann when all is said an done.

Also, I'll second the 10 gallon cooler MLT route. Especially if you're batch sparging, you can put together an MLT for $70 or $80 right there, including your bulkhead, valve, and bazooka screen.

But try to think of all the things you'll need to go 5 gallons:
- HLT
- MLT
- BK
- Burner (2 of these can be very nice so you can fire your HLT and BK at the same time)
- Pump (definitely optional, but at least one of these can make your brew day much easier)
- Some sort of chiller if you don't already have one (again, optional - an ice bath can still work for 5 gallon batches if you have a sink large enough to hold your kettle, don't let anyone tell you otherwise)
- Larger fermenters, like you've already mentioned
- More / new hose, etc

Looking at it that way, especially if you're looking at Blichmann gear, $700 is going to disappear quicker than you'll be able to check things off the list! DIY can be your friend!
 
Thanks so much guys...and gal

I guess I will get a cooler...again, I have a lot of experience brewing, just none with this type of equipment so I I might have my mind in a wrong place on things.

@Dustbow...I use a foot-long lab thermometer as my "sight gauge" right now. After filling with water once I simply write down where the water level is compared to the temp reading. How "tall" are kettles above the false bottom in general? In other words, I would just slide down my thermometer until I hit the false bottom and take readings from there. Its insanely accurate for my 1 gallon system...I get within 1/10 of a quart of my intended fermentation volume. I also use spring water, premeasured so I know exactly how much is going in my strike and sparge. I figure the first batch will get me a good idea of boil-off and I can adjust from there, does humidity and seasons affect this to a large degree?

@Yooper...brain fart on the decoctions but I am super lazy when it comes to steps...and I do like the pilsner recipe I created with three steps. I guess when you do 40 batches on a stove that you can keep on low or easily heat up, you get a little lazy.

@Stratslinger...I am pretty handy but I would freak out if I ever messed up creating my equipment...in otherwords paying $100 more and knowing I have a "perfect" setup is maybe worth it for peace of mind, then messing up. I've read a lot of leaking threads on here from the DIYers...majority? Minority? Whats the consensus?

Thanks for the list...I had most of that in my mental list but that helps a lot.

Anything else I am missing? I have this crazy idea to use a manifold and a "looser" false bottom to ensure I don't get stuck sparges but get nicer clarity...useless, unecessary or worth trying?


EDIT-- @Spike, thanks for the link, I've peaked through your stuff before researching this but I have to check it out again
 
Well, I guess I'm only a sample size of 1, with a total of 4 fittings... But two of them were perfect with no adjustment required, the other two only took very minor adjustment, and no leaks (in one case I overtightened, in another I had undertightened - both simple fixes). Now, it remains to be seen what happens once they come up to temperature, so talk to me again after Saturday! ;)

In my case, I went with old kegs that were acquired from friends / family. They cost me nothing but the time I spent cleaning the dang things (they were old and a mess, and one of them is more than a little banged up), so no loss other than my time if I goofed on any of my holes.
 
I went all grain 10 gallon for pretty cheap.

Keg converted to keggle (keg from craigslist for 35 dollars, cut the top out and put in a weldless valve kit)

2x 10 gallon igloo coolers from lowes/home depot. they go for around 60 bucks each then I got the hardware to turn them into MLT and HLT for around 100 dollars (valves, piping, copper tube for manifold, pvc for fly sparge)

Turkey fryer burner off of amazon for 50ish bucks.

Keg kit with 2 kegs and connectors an all off kegconnection.com for 200ish

Kegerator off craigs list for 120 (came with co2 tank and regulator)

Other misc stuff like tubing and propane tanks(always have a backup) 100 bucks.

My most recent addition has been a march pump.


So not including the pump im at about 500-600 bucks most of it in getting a kegging setup(kegerator and kegs)

Hope this helps.
 
Calichusetts said:
Thanks guys...would a SS braid (bazooka screen) in an igloo work fine?

If you got the money, I'd invest the $50 in the 10 gal igloo cooler ( walmart) and another $50 in a 12" SS false bottom ( the domed ones like NB or MWS or AHS has). This is what I've done and never had a stuck sparge or regrets. It's allot of surface area and it's evenly distributed.
 
Thanks guys...would a SS braid (bazooka screen) in an igloo work fine?

That setup has worked great for me so far. That said, I have gotten stuck sparges once or twice, but they've been easily enough resolved - shut off the valve, use your mash paddle to clear as much around the bazooka screen as you can, then vorlauf again before you resume lautering.

Or throw a buck worth of rice hulls into your grist and don't worry about a thing. That works too. ;)
 
The braid works - downside is you end up with a bigger deadspace. If you have the budget, I'd probably do a false bottom.
 
Yooper said:
Well, you can't do decoctions in your MLT. But you can do step mashes by direct firing your kettle MLT.

I'm not sure I agree with this... Can't you mash-in into the cooler with strike water and malt then ladle out (decoct) "x" amount into your kettle; boil it, add it back to the mash (at protien rest) and hit your sacch rest temp? Rinse your kettle and start your draw off.
 
The braid works - downside is you end up with a bigger deadspace. If you have the budget, I'd probably do a false bottom.

I can do either...I think, just adding up my totals now...does a braid AND a false bottom fit? I've just read reviews of the 12" in the igloo and people say that there is a decent gap around the edges...is this true?

Here is where I am at after the suggestions so far:

10 gallon Igloo with false or braid...or both

8 gallon HLT, 2 weldless fittings for thermo + ball valve

8 gallon BK with braid, same fittings as HLT...I've also heard that 8 gallon is pushing it for 5 gallon batches?

25 foot Copper IC, I'll use this with an ice bath as well...redudant?

Banjou Patio Stove


Unfortunately that is getting really close to the max, considering I'll have to get tubing and new carboys...and a bottling bucket and 22ozers, since I simply can't afford a kegging system unless I come across some insane deal on craigslist. Am I missing anything?

PS- LOVE midwest, order all my ingredients from there but why is their equipment consistently $20-30 more than morebeer and NB? Any "hidden" sites I should look out for (I know spike posted earler)?
 
I can do either...I think, just adding up my totals now...does a braid AND a false bottom fit? I've just read reviews of the 12" in the igloo and people say that there is a decent gap around the edges...is this true?

I don't think both would work... But one suggestion I have read is to take a length of silicone tubing, slit it along its length, and then run that tube around the edge of the false bottom to help make a better seal.

I haven't tried it myself, but it certainly sounds worth trying - and the length of tubing you'd need would probably only run you 3 or 4 bucks.
 
@Mark-- Not really interested in BIAB but I also have an Imperial recipe that currently comes in at 3+ pounds of grain in my 1 gallon form (I really like using grain and the sole ingredient that ferments into alchohol and the huge malt backbone allows me to hop the **** out of it and still keep it balanced). I heard BIAB maxes out around 10 pounds but I could be wrong.

@urban-- why do no shops sell aluminum? Strange, wouldn't mind it but having trouble locating kettles...any suggestions. And SS is pretty! :drunk:

@strat-- Thanks again buddy...I remember reading something like that in a review, but the way it was worded made no sense to how it would help...that seems like an easy solution
 
Calichusetts said:
I can do either...I think, just adding up my totals now...does a braid AND a false bottom fit? I've just read reviews of the 12" in the igloo and people say that there is a decent gap around the edges...is this true?

Here is where I am at after the suggestions so far:

10 gallon Igloo with false or braid...or both

8 gallon HLT, 2 weldless fittings for thermo + ball valve

8 gallon BK with braid, same fittings as HLT...I've also heard that 8 gallon is pushing it for 5 gallon batches?

25 foot Copper IC, I'll use this with an ice bath as well...redudant?

Banjou Patio Stove

Unfortunately that is getting really close to the max, considering I'll have to get tubing and new carboys...and a bottling bucket and 22ozers, since I simply can't afford a kegging system unless I come across some insane deal on craigslist. Am I missing anything?

PS- LOVE midwest, order all my ingredients from there but why is their equipment consistently $20-30 more than morebeer and NB? Any "hidden" sites I should look out for (I know spike posted earler)?

The 12 inch FB is domed so the edges sit flat on the bottom of the cooler. You could get the 8" FB and it still works fine in a 10 gal cooler because it rests on the bottom( although I woulnt recommend it, in fact the 12" is pushing it for getting it out from around your bulkhead fitting/hose nipple.

You'd have to get all "Mc Iver" to do both at the same time. I think overkill and un- needed.

I do 5.5 gal batches in an 8 gal kettle and I will probably die of a bleeding ulcer because of it. Get a bigger kettle... I fill to 7 gallons and it is Like Russian roullet for the start of the boil...
Get a bigger kettle.

Anything else you have to spend should be on fermentation temperature control ( in fact; you should probably be sure you got that DDFD ( Done, Done, F'ing Done) before you spend a nickle on any of the other stuff.
 
Anything else you have to spend should be on fermentation temperature control ( in fact; you should probably be sure you got that DDFD ( Done, Done, F'ing Done) before you spend a nickle on any of the other stuff.

I'll second this, and I'm kinda shocked I didn't even think to mention it in my shopping/wish list earlier.

This can be done on the cheap - find a fridge or chest freezer on craigslist or a dorm-sized fridge and build an insulated box around it (this is the approach I took, more because I stumbled across a free fridge) and search for the ebay temp controller thread here on HBT - you can relatively easily get away with temp control to house 10 gallons for $150-200, even less if you get lucky on craigslist.
 
Hawk Lowes' scratch and dent area. When they unload beater floor models they will bargain with you. My chest ferm freezer is a $250 model I sniped for 100... Brand new with a dime sized dent in the front. Get to know the appliance manager ; )
 
Sorry I didn't mention it...I already have a fridge that can fit a 5 gallon carboy. Cleaned and "sanitized" it two weeks ago and I am currently lagering a BoPils in it. I can fit a few bottles in there as well. I also have a minifridge for my hops, etc.

Thanks again guys...any last minute info you feel is missing here?
 
$700 should be more than enough to get you started with All-Grain.

IMO you'll need the following:

- Kettle: I strongly recommend buying a quality 10G kettle that way you don't have to worry about boil overs as much. I used a cheapo kettle that I got off of EBay for $90. I used it for a few years and replaced it with a 10G Mega Pot. You need to make sure your kettle has a quality thermometer and a ball valve.

- Mash Tun: I also recommend the 10G Rubber maid coolers to mash in. It's very simple to use and the 10G cooler will give you plenty of capacity. You can find them for good prices online. I use a bazooka screen and I've never had a stuck sparge, ever. If you're making a recipe where a stuck sparge is a possiblity, then throw in some rice hulls. I see more people complaining about their false bottoms than bazaoka screens. Plus it's a super easy install.

- Immersion chiller: This is a piece of equipment you'll need. You can either buy one or make one yourself. I have a 25 ft one, but I wish I had bought the 50 ft option.

- Fermentation chamber - Do yourself a favor and buy a used or new chest freezer to ferment in. Why spend $700 and not have your beer come out great? IMO yeast health is the #1 factor to making quality and consistent beer.

I brew with a 10G kettle, a 10G cooler, and two 5-gallon buckets to hold wort, extra water, etc. You don't need a fancy system to make a great beer.
 
For 700 you ought to be able to put together a10gal system plus a kegorator. Shop around. And buy used wherever possible.
 
@Mark-- Not really interested in BIAB but I also have an Imperial recipe that currently comes in at 3+ pounds of grain in my 1 gallon form (I really like using grain and the sole ingredient that ferments into alchohol and the huge malt backbone allows me to hop the **** out of it and still keep it balanced). I heard BIAB maxes out around 10 pounds but I could be wrong.

I just did a 22lb BIAB RIS at 71% eff in a Keggle without any issues other then tired arms after lifting the bag out. Should come out to around 11% abv. And I can complete a brew day in 4.5 hours from crushing the grain to cleaning up after pitching the yeast.

With that said, I chose to do BIAB because of money contraints. It was cheaper to buy a burner/keg and convert it for BIAB then make a mash tun and buy a kettle plus burner. I am completely in love with the technique now and don't plan on switching but would have originally chosen to use the standard 3 vessel system had I had the money.
 
Thanks guys...really love this site, virtually all of my questions have been answered. Will still probably bottle at first since I figure that when I upgrade to kegging I will knock out my living room closet and put in a wetbar...if you are going to do it, go all the way!

Again...thanks, I'll keep an update on what I end up with and any last suggestions are more than welcome. You guys rock
:rockin:
 
If you get a pot with a ball valve skip the immersion chiller and preorder a plate chiller from keg cowboy. It can be gravity fed and will chill the beer SO MUCH FASTER. Shaves so much time off brew day.
 
If you get a pot with a ball valve skip the immersion chiller and preorder a plate chiller from keg cowboy. It can be gravity fed and will chill the beer SO MUCH FASTER. Shaves so much time off brew day.

I don't know my 25 ft immersion chiller can drop the temp down to 70 in about 15 minutes as long as the ambient temp as below 75. Once it gets up above 95 sure it could take closer to 25 minutes but in my neck of the woods that is only 1 month out of the year.
 
That may be the case, but my Counter Flow chiller (and those plate chillers too, I'm sure) can chill the wort down to pitching temps as quickly as you can drain the kettle.

I drained 11 gallons into two 6 gallon fermenters over the weekend - probably had them both chilled and filled inside of 10 minutes.

Is that extra 5 to 10 minutes shaved off really going to make a ton of difference? Probably not. But it's darned impressive to see it happen! ;)
 
My water is 80f and the temp is around 95 right now. It takes me 30 minutes to chill it down to 80. Then Im have to dump it in a carboy stick it in the fridge and wait around for hours to over night to get it to pitching temp for my lagers.
 
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