American Amber; one style I've never done

What do you guys think? I want something malty and hoppy. Here's my shot at it...

5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
5.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)
1.00 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)
0.65 oz Magnum [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 24.4 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-)

Mashed @ 155F with decoction of half the mash

Looks tasty to me. I'd mash lower, but I generally like drier beers.

It looks good to me, but I've never brewed an amber. I want to; I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I like the 50/50 pale/Vienna combo you have there. I brewed a pale ale (inspired by Ed's Haus Ale) that is 50/50 pale/Vienna with a touch of crystal-15 and some wheat. It's awesome.

With all that Vienna, do you really need the melanoidin? Maybe go with more crystal instead? I've seen recipes for ambers that use as many as three different types of crystal, and reach up to 15-20 percent of the grain bill.

Beerthoven said:

With all that Vienna, do you really need the melanoidin? Maybe go with more crystal instead? I've seen recipes for ambers that use as many as three different types of crystal, and reach up to 15-20 percent of the grain bill.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure. I've never used the Melanoidin, but it should help with the red color and maltiness. I'd be willing to do the combination of Crystals as well. I'm just not budging on the base grains because I looove Vienna...

I'd personally chuck the melanoidin with all that vienna and make up the color with 1/2lb of 80-120L. In my novice palette, a large percentage of vienna already has melanoidin character. I really like Jamil's red rocket clone that has a smidge of pale chocolate in it too.

I have an amber in bottles with two pounds of crystal 60 (16.67% of the grain bill) and it is a bit over the top for me. No experience with melanoiden yet, but it is on my "test batch" list.

I'm just now drinking a very simple, tasty amber that was a cinch to brew:

Type: All Grain
Date: 9/7/2008
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer: Quicksilver Home Brewery
Boil Size: 7.30 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (7.5 gal) and Cooler (50 qt)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 66.40
Taste Notes: Nice beer. Malty with a little caramel and slight roastiness with just the slightest hint of chocolate and some nutty flavor. A little peppery and some citrus on the finish.

Nice fluffy tan head with good retention, decent lacing out of the dishwasher

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 86.96 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.17 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt Pale (205.0 SRM) Grain 2.17 %
0.50 oz Centennial [8.80 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.1 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [8.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.4 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (15 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [7.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Safale (Fermentis #US-56) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.057 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.29 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.35 %
Bitterness: 39.7 IBU Calories: 256 cal/pint
Est Color: 13.3 SRM Color: Color

So, I'll agree with Bobby. Kill the melanoiden, half 2-row, half vienna and a smidge of pale choco and I'd be willing to drink several

How does this look...

5.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 45.34 %
5.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 45.34 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.12 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.12 %
0.13 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.07 %
0.65 oz Magnum [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 24.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.6 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-)

Have a look at my entries the Wiki for AAA. That gives you an idea of where my brain is on AAA.

Me, I'd dump the Vienna entirely. I don't want AAA to be malty; I want it to have definite, instantly-noticeable crystal-malt character. A touch of melanoidin-rich malt, like Munich or Vienna, is one thing; damn near half the grist is too much, as it'll mask the crystal-malt flavors.

Should you decide to tell me to go boil my head, still do me the favor of increasing you crystal-malt contribution to at least 10% of the grist. I'd increase the 40L to a full pound. AAA needs 10-15% of the grist to be Crystal malt; otherwise the flavors simply aren't emphatic enough.

Your hops schedule looks lovely!

I'm a fan of American yeast strains, but Notty is so neutral you ought to be able to get away with it.

Cheers!

Bob

I use a combo of 1lb. Cara Amber + 1lb. Cara Red in my AAA. It has great color and clarity. I have to agree with BobNQ3X in that I would nix the Vienna or at least cut it back to < 5% and go with 75+% 2row. JMHO.

Just FYI, your latest recipe revision uses regular chocolate malt. Pale chocolate malt is distinctly different, so you should take that into consideration.

Oh, and one more thing, it looks like you're gonna make one damn fine beer. Feel free to send some up this way if you make too much!

I should thank mr Chemnerd for reminding me of something:

Soulive, you're going to make a tasty beer with your original recipe. I wrote from the perspective of style enthusiast; please don't think I thought your proposed recipe bad or anything. I should have re-read my post before clicking "Post", as it comes off as all snarky and stuff.



Bob

rnrchemnerd said:

Oh, and one more thing, it looks like you're gonna make one damn fine beer. Feel free to send some up this way if you make too much!

Click to expand...

Haha, no worries...

BobNQ3X said:

I should thank mr Chemnerd for reminding me of something:

Soulive, you're going to make a tasty beer with your original recipe. I wrote from the perspective of style enthusiast; please don't think I thought your proposed recipe bad or anything. I should have re-read my post before clicking "Post", as it comes off as all snarky and stuff.



Bob

Click to expand...

No worries Bob, here's where I'm at now. I can't go any lower on the Vienna, but the Crystal is up to 12.5% now. Should I flip the amounts of the 80L and 40L?

7.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 62.50 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 25.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %
0.65 oz Magnum [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 24.4 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (15 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [7.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-)

I just used 8 oz. crystal 60 and 2 oz. roasted barley in my amber and then like you added so many hops that I can't taste much else. Well I've not really tasted it yet It's just that bottled a few that would not fit in my 5 gallon better bottle for the dry hopping. I'm drinking one now and it's definany amber (and bitter.)

I would definitely flip the amounts of Crystal. That much 80L is too much, IMO, because it'll dominate - but half that will meld nicely with the other malts.

Good on yer! Brew it up!

Bob

BobNQ3X said:

I would definitely flip the amounts of Crystal. That much 80L is too much, IMO, because it'll dominate - but half that will meld nicely with the other malts.

Good on yer! Brew it up!

Bob

Click to expand...

Crystal has been flipped. Thanks for the expertise...