OP
OP
I'm sure everyone will be fine with that as a guideline. I know I am, now that I know we aren't going for a specific recipe.
12-12-12 Wee Heavy Recipe Formulation
- Thread starter smokinghole
- Start date
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Well we've got to have oak!
King Brian has already cut down and seasoned his lumber in anticipation...not to mention toasting, burning and drowning it in moonshine for good measure.
How can we say no to Oak !?!?
King Brian has already cut down and seasoned his lumber in anticipation...not to mention toasting, burning and drowning it in moonshine for good measure.
How can we say no to Oak !?!?
commonsenseman
Well-Known Member
KingBrianI said:
Perfect.
Oak aging should remain optional. Oak aging really is an art to turn out well. I do not feel like I can add oak to a beer and know that it will turn out well. I am all about receiving oaked beers but would prefer not to do it myself. I would rather trade a very good Wee Heavy (which I know I am capable of brewing), compared to a mediocre oaked Wee Heavy.
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Aw, sorry, we brewed it yesterday at Jeff's house. Maybe next year.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
JLW said:
Whenever we can get the thing agreed upon through December.
I have to agree with smokinghole...
As I stated before, its WAY more interesting to all use the same recipe and see how it turns out. Anyone is free to brew whatever they want any other time, but for this is should be the same.
As far as oak, its easy enough to oak a portion of the recipe to your own tastes
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
We should get this part out of the way. Maybe hold a poll based on fixed recipe vs guideline recipe
commonsenseman
Well-Known Member
Well, if it's a big deal. Sure, we could do a poll.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Seriously, another poll? My interest in this project is dropping fast. You will never get everyone to brew the same beer, even if the poll decides that everyone has to brew the same recipe. So the people who add a little smoked malt, or whatever the hell other changes they make are now to be excluded from participating in the swap. I'd be surprised if most of the people in this thread even do the swap if "allowed". Look at the 11-11-11 swap, there's what, like 7 people signed up?
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
commonsenseman said:
I would say it is a big deal, since this is a huge beer, were all going to be sitting on it for a year, then paying a considerable sum to ship it around. We should definitely all be happy with what were making. Of course if we can't agree then we can't agree. I for one will be participating whatever the outcome.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
KingBrianI said:
KingBrianI said:
Alright alright, we'll just go with this then. I can work with that.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Like you said, people are putting a lot of time, money and energy into this beer, so it should be done in the way the most people agree with. If you guys decide a poll is the way to go about deciding that, then go for it. I just feel like it is all getting too serious which takes away from the "fun" aspect of it for me.
As an aside, I'm drinking a Traquair House Ale right now and it's really nice. Not one of the best bottles of it I've had, but it's still very enjoyable.
A few things I'm noticing about it: It tastes like a quad with a neutral yeast! I guess I had never thought about it before, but you may remember the crazy idea I put forth about kind of mixing the two styles. I guess that was still floating around my head because when I tasted it, my first thought was how it tasted very similar to a quad I brewed once. It's actually fairly dry, but the low bitterness gives the impression of sweetness. It's still smooth and creamy though, with almost no alcohol presence. It also has an almost vinuous character to it and I really do think I'm getting something from that oak. Not a tannic, oaky flavor but something more subtle and murky. A feeling in the mouth, a passing hint of earth, the sudden thought of dark and damp cellars. If I do use one of the oak sticks I'm preparing, it will be with a very light touch.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Wow, lots of strong ideas here. For what it's worth, I'd like to see the recipe and swap done to include as many people as possible, rather than exclude them for various reasons. Guideline recipe and all is fine by me. Many of us are going to have to make substitutions anyway based off of available ingredients, so why make things difficult.
As for problems with wort reduction, once the syrup starts to get thick, you can always transfer it to a pot in the oven. That prevents scorching issues, though you still have to worry about a nasty boil over.
With regards to the large grainbill, one could always adjust for a 4 gallon recipe. I know it sucks to brew less at a time, but some big beers demand it. Think of it as an excuse to brew this twice, for an 8 gallon total, for instance!:rockin:
Oh, and nice pic of the Traq, Brian. Where the hell is the 11/11/11 swap page? I haven't seen it anywhere.
As for problems with wort reduction, once the syrup starts to get thick, you can always transfer it to a pot in the oven. That prevents scorching issues, though you still have to worry about a nasty boil over.
With regards to the large grainbill, one could always adjust for a 4 gallon recipe. I know it sucks to brew less at a time, but some big beers demand it. Think of it as an excuse to brew this twice, for an 8 gallon total, for instance!:rockin:
Oh, and nice pic of the Traq, Brian. Where the hell is the 11/11/11 swap page? I haven't seen it anywhere.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Here you go:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/11-11-11-old-ale-swap-critique-thread-271674/
Still plenty of time to sign up!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/11-11-11-old-ale-swap-critique-thread-271674/
Still plenty of time to sign up!
commonsenseman
Well-Known Member
That looks delicious! Way on the low end ABV-wise for a Wee Heavy too.
Guld: I'll probably be making a smaller batch, possibly two of them since it'll be aging so long.
Guld: I'll probably be making a smaller batch, possibly two of them since it'll be aging so long.
Cromwell
Well-Known Member
+1 This seems to provide enough flexibility to keep people happy, but they'll all be similar enough to be fun to compare. Too bad everyone's already brewed this.
statseeker
Well-Known Member
I think I might end up using Irish Ale yeast for this one. It sounds like it has roughly the characteristics that KB described in the Traquair. Especially in this type of ale, its attenuation is good.
Irish Ale 1084
From Wyeast:
"This versatile yeast ferments extremely well in dark worts. It is a good choice for most high gravity beers. Beers fermented in the lower temperature range produce a dry, crisp profile with subtle fruitiness. Fruit and complex esters will increase when fermentation temperatures are above 64°F (18°C)."
Mine will definitely be above 64 most of the time. I might oak it VERY lightly with a medium toast oak. I'm pretty excited for this actually.
Though if Scottish ale yeast is agreed upon as a condition, I'll agree to that and nix the oak addition.
Irish Ale 1084
From Wyeast:
"This versatile yeast ferments extremely well in dark worts. It is a good choice for most high gravity beers. Beers fermented in the lower temperature range produce a dry, crisp profile with subtle fruitiness. Fruit and complex esters will increase when fermentation temperatures are above 64°F (18°C)."
Mine will definitely be above 64 most of the time. I might oak it VERY lightly with a medium toast oak. I'm pretty excited for this actually.
Though if Scottish ale yeast is agreed upon as a condition, I'll agree to that and nix the oak addition.
I like this! Question on the hop timings - at 45 and 35 won't we get some hop flavor at the expense of bittering? If that's correct will that flavor still be around come 12-12-12??
I'm excited to participate in this. I brewed the 11-11-11 but much later than all of you so mine is just not ready to share. Glad to be in on the ground floor of this one!
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Sounds like we have a recipe formulation. Ill probably make an 80/- before the brew day to try my hand at the kettle caramelization, and to build my yeast.
JuanKenobi
Well-Known Member
Looks like the recipe part is at least mostly agreed upon, which is good since I have a sack of GP arriving today. I think I'll also do a lower strength batch to practice the boil down. I'm personally going with 98% GP, 2% roasted barley, EKG, Wy1728.
What I'm wondering right now is how to best anticipate my efficiency. Normally with a huge grain bill I'd expect to get something like 60 - 65% efficiency out of the tun, but in this case with the boil down and long boil I'm expecting a couple batch sparges will be needed to achieve full volume. Anyone have experience with this situation? I'm using a 10 gallon round cooler MT for a 5.5 gallon batch.
As to batch volume, I'm formulating for my normal 5.5 batch size. Now, since we're boiling down a couple gallons of runnings to what seems like will be a pretty small volume and then adding that back into the boil, there's no reason to adjust the batch size up for the purpose of estimating OG, right? I know this seems obvious, but I fee like I'm missing something and don't want to make a huge miscalculation.
I guess I'll get my answers out of the first batch, but would love to have a success before diving into this monster. Thanks for the help.
What I'm wondering right now is how to best anticipate my efficiency. Normally with a huge grain bill I'd expect to get something like 60 - 65% efficiency out of the tun, but in this case with the boil down and long boil I'm expecting a couple batch sparges will be needed to achieve full volume. Anyone have experience with this situation? I'm using a 10 gallon round cooler MT for a 5.5 gallon batch.
As to batch volume, I'm formulating for my normal 5.5 batch size. Now, since we're boiling down a couple gallons of runnings to what seems like will be a pretty small volume and then adding that back into the boil, there's no reason to adjust the batch size up for the purpose of estimating OG, right? I know this seems obvious, but I fee like I'm missing something and don't want to make a huge miscalculation.
I guess I'll get my answers out of the first batch, but would love to have a success before diving into this monster. Thanks for the help.
KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Correct. Think about OG as the relation of sugar per unit volume. There is a certain amount of sugar in the grain and boiling it down or whatever doesn't change that amount of sugar. It is then divided up into whatever your final volume is. So calculate based on the final volume of your batch like you always do.
JuanKenobi
Well-Known Member
I knew that was right, but had that nagging feeling in the back of my head that I think I'm so smart, but am actually an idiot. Thanks for the reassurance.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
JuanKenobi said:
I deal with that feeling on a daily basis
Don't twist my arm to make a prequeal to the wee heavy. I like that idea think I might have to do something similar.
OP
OP
I don't know about a batch with a boil down for me but a lighter version with a long boil certainly sounds like a great idea.
statseeker
Well-Known Member
So I assume the Scottish Ale yeast is an in-stone part of the formula?
Do we need to pick a yeast or is either of the Scottish Ale yeasts acceptable?
White Labs - WLP028 states that it doesn't ferment well under 62 degrees F - but that the desired flavors are produced at 65 degrees.
WYeast 1728 doesn't seem to have that limitation.
White Labs - WLP028 states that it doesn't ferment well under 62 degrees F - but that the desired flavors are produced at 65 degrees.
WYeast 1728 doesn't seem to have that limitation.
OP
OP
If you wait until november sometime to order yeast you should be fine.
OP
OP
I am going to use East Coast Yeast Scottish Heavy if I can get a hold of it in due time.
Description of ECY07: Leaves a fruity profile with woody, oak esters reminiscent of malt whiskey. Well suited for 90/shilling or heavier ales including old ales and barleywines due to level of attenuation (77-80%) - recommend a dextrinous wort. Suggested fermentation temp: 60-68°F.
Description of ECY07: Leaves a fruity profile with woody, oak esters reminiscent of malt whiskey. Well suited for 90/shilling or heavier ales including old ales and barleywines due to level of attenuation (77-80%) - recommend a dextrinous wort. Suggested fermentation temp: 60-68°F.
Sounds like a great yeast - but they sure are cagey about how to get your hands on some - short of driving hours to get to Princeton...
OP
OP
You can call Princton Homebrew show. They will ship. That's what I'll be doing.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Just ordered my stuff for this today. I got 20 lbs of MO, and then also grabbed a pound each of RB and crystal 60 in case I go that route. Got wyeast 1728.
OP
OP
Just thought of something. If anyone plans of trying to get the East Coast Yeast Scottish strain start calling now. I don't know how often drop offs are at the store but it's a small operation.
Here is the recipe I am working on. A couple of questions.
1. ABV seems a little low even though it is within the style
2. I also don't feel like 7.19 gal is enough to start with.
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy
Brewer
Asst Brewer:
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.095 SG
Estimated Color: 18.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
17 lbs 2.4 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 96.6 %
9.6 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.4 %
1.00 oz Herald [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 31.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 20.0 Hop 4 2.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 Yeast 5 -
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.19 qt of water at 164.8 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 3.77 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
1. ABV seems a little low even though it is within the style
2. I also don't feel like 7.19 gal is enough to start with.
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy
Brewer
Asst Brewer:
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.095 SG
Estimated Color: 18.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
17 lbs 2.4 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 96.6 %
9.6 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.4 %
1.00 oz Herald [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 31.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 20.0 Hop 4 2.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 Yeast 5 -
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.19 qt of water at 164.8 F 150.0 F 75 min
Sparge: Fly sparge with 3.77 gal water at 168.0 F
Notes:
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
JLW said:
7.19 does seem low, especially if almost 2 gallons are lost to the kettle caramelization right off the bat, followed by a 120 minute boil. Also, how are you planning on getting 82% efficiency with this massive grain bill?
Oh yeah, and, what's the quarter ounce of EKG all about?
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