12-12-12 Wee Heavy Recipe Formulation

azscoob said:

I wouldnt be opposed to adding some peated or smoked malt to this one either.

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Thank you.

azscoob said:

When my oak barrel is not filled with beer it is filled with water to keep it from drying out. the water is treated with citric acid and sodium metabisulphite to keep it critter free. this has greatly mellowed the barrel, and there is very little whiskey flavor left at this point. I hope to make use of it for this beer.

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Sounds like a great plan, wish I had an oak barrel to use.

KingBrianI said:

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

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In my mind, this recipe is perfect.

BenS said:

You are allowed to deviate all you want, but that's not the purpose of this swap. The purpose of this is to brew the exact same recipe so everyone can experience how the same recipe can be different.

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Thanks for clarifying the purpose of this swap for me.

There are at least a few of this who won't be participating if not allowed some wiggle room. I will probably still brew something like this, but won't be swapping since my recipe with 1% Smoked Malt isn't good enough for some people.

Ha. I'd actually planned to brew two batches, one with smoked malt and one without. I'd thought about providing a smoked one to whoever I swapped with in addition, if they were interested.
So, if this doesn't work out in the general case, commonsenseman, I'd be happy to swap with you if you're interested.

Is it too much work to subdivide this into people who want a no-variation recipe, and those who do? I hate to see the idea crumble because of two opposing sides? What if the set recipe people identify themselves as a trading group, and the wiggle room people are just a different trading group?

commonsenseman said:

There are at least a few of this who won't be participating if not allowed some wiggle room. I will probably still brew something like this, but won't be swapping since my recipe with 1% Smoked Malt isn't good enough for some people.

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Dude dude dude! Your beer rocks ok? It has nothing to do with not being "good enough". Its just that, in the name of beer geekdom, some want to see how the same recipe will come out, brewed by different brewers, from different parts of the country. Its purely out of curiosity. Its hard to compare how different my beer turns out from yours, when you have a different recipe. Of course it will be quite different. There are NO hard feelings going on in this thread. Ill send you beer, you send me beer. I just want to be able to also exchange with at least 2 others that made the same recipe.

bottlebomber said:

Dude dude dude! Your beer rocks ok? It has nothing to do with not being "good enough". Its just that, in the name of beer geekdom, some want to see how the same recipe will come out, brewed by different brewers, from different parts of the country. Its purely out of curiosity. Its hard to compare how different my beer turns out from yours, when you have a different recipe. Of course it will be quite different. There are NO hard feelings going on in this thread. Ill send you beer, you send me beer. I just want to be able to also exchange with at least 2 others that made the same recipe.

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Alright, alright. Sorry for freaking out. You have a decent enough point.

Wow, we're all just getting along. I feel funny.

I will be trying this recipe with Irish Ale yeast at some point. I feel a winter warmer coming on.

So which recipe is the main agreed upon?

bottlebomber said:

Ok let's see if we can get at least 3 or 4 people to agree on this:

MO or Golden Promise (amount variable according to your systems efficiency)
.25 LBs RB
1.095-1.105 OG
1.018-1.025 FG
35 IBU
Wyeast 1728

If anyone else want to add crystal, peated malt, oak, heather or scotch whiskey they can do so, but it would be cool to get at least 3 people on board with this, so we can do a swap based around a unanimous recipe.

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OR

KingBrianI said:

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

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I guess they are pretty much the same where as bottlebombers specifies an amount of roasted barley and KBs is based on percentage (and your system). Also, are we talking 30-35 IBUS on Rager or Tinseth? Def interested in this.

Is anyone in the D.C./Maryland area interested in splitting a sack of MO with me for this? Flying Barrel Sells a 55lb sack for $65, which is $1.18/lb

I think there are a handful of guys brewing the exact same recipe or as close as they can. That way they can compare their brewing styles/techniques. The others are brewing based on the guide so you have a choice. I just weighed out my specialty grains this morning 6oz extra dark crystal and 6oz roasted barley for a 7.5 gal batch. I'm aiming for 1.100ish.

I'm going to be brewing a special bitter tomorrow that's 93.3% Golden Promise and 6.7% table sugar. Beersmith estimates the color at 3.8 SRM, but I'm going to be doing a kettle caramelization on 1 gallon of first runnings to test the new pot and try to figure out how much color it will add. Should be good practice for the big brew. And a good indicator of how much color the caramelization will add.

KingBrianI said:

I'm going to be brewing a special bitter tomorrow that's 93.3% Golden Promise and 6.7% table sugar. Beersmith estimates the color at 3.8 SRM, but I'm going to be doing a kettle caramelization on 1 gallon of first runnings to test the new pot and try to figure out how much color it will add. Should be good practice for the big brew. And a good indicator of how much color the caramelization will add.

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That is a darned good idea! I was thinking of making a lower gravity version of this and use the cake in lieu of a monster starter, maybe I should caramelize a gallon to get a feel for the whole process.

I have caramelized the first runnings on a 1.082 Irish Red, but I never took the caramelization down as far as I plan on doing on this recipe.

I was thinking about doing a decoction mash for this as well... I dunno

bottlebomber:

what chutzpah! this is already going to be a labor-intensive brew, hats off to you for complicating the process even more

seriously, that could really be a good method for developing melanoidins and body-

bottlebomber said:

Its just that, in the name of beer geekdom, some want to see how the same recipe will come out, brewed by different brewers, from different parts of the country. Its purely out of curiosity. Its hard to compare how different my beer turns out from yours, when you have a different recipe. Of course it will be quite different. There are NO hard feelings going on in this thread. Ill send you beer, you send me beer. I just want to be able to also exchange with at least 2 others that made the same recipe.

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bottlebomber said:

I was thinking about doing a decoction mash for this as well... I dunno

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You may want to get treated for that schizophrenia.

KingBrianI said:

You may want to get treated for that schizophrenia.

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No see this is just what I was talking about... letting the differences be in the brewing process, not the ingredients. Basically, let's see what you can do with your 20 lbs MO and your 4 ounces of RB. Sure, you could probably add some crystal 120 and maybe a little melanoidin malt and get a similar taste profile without the kettle carmelization and all that, but that's where the geekiness wins out for me. Actually just finished watching a cool Brew TV episode on it so I threw it out there

To quote Ron Burgundy,

"I'm going to say something. I'm going to throw it out there... if you like it you can keep it, and if you don't you can send it right back.

I want to do a decoction."

bottlebomber said:

"I'm going to say something. I'm going to throw it out there... if you like it you can keep it, and if you don't you can send it right back.

I want to do a decoction."

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"Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast..." - The Legend, Ron Burgundy

I def am interested in doing the same recipe...just got to get SWMBO on board to let me buy that sack of MO

I think schizophrenia would be more like "King Brian is definitely following me. I need to tear out my molars."

Beer-polar is what you're thinking of

You sure you dont have ale-zheimers? I've heard it's a popular disorder with the beer geeking community.

Doing a decoction is crazy. I might try a multi-step mash with this one if I get the time.

Kettle carmelizing the first runnings for a 80/- right now, to try this process out and build my yeast for the big batch. I can definitely say with confidence that I will not be doing a decoction mash for the swap beer. Figure in at least an extra hour for the carmelization. Its really not hard, just time consuming. Fun though

This Y1728 is neat stuff... its happily fermenting right now at 54 degrees. Definitely a keeper strain.

I know it's off topic - but could you post your 80/- recipe. I'm getting ready for a yeast increasing effort and am contemplating recipes.

Thanks.

It was just 10# MO, 5 ounces of roasted barley, then I bittered with nugget hops to 35 IBU. Kettle carmelized the first runnings. Tastes awesome, I'm actually really excited to drink this. Gravity came in at 1.062 for 5 gallons, higher than I thought. I sparged with 5 gallons which is more than usual, that probably got me the extra juice. Really excited to do the big brew. Its going to happen over the thanksgiving weekend.

bottlebomber said:

It was just 10# MO, 5 ounces of roasted barley, then I bittered with nugget hops to 35 IBU. Kettle carmelized the first runnings. Tastes awesome, I'm actually really excited to drink this. Gravity came in at 1.062 for 5 gallons, higher than I thought. I sparged with 5 gallons which is more than usual, that probably got me the extra juice. Really excited to do the big brew. Its going to happen over the thanksgiving weekend.

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Thanks!

Nice simple grain bill. I'm really interested to hear if you get the smoke flavour from just the yeast. I really like the smoke in my Wee Heavies and so am one of the guys on the fence about the recipe.

Yeast from a 1.062 batch to a 1.100+ is pushing it. 2 gallons of 60/- would be great for a starter. Happy yeast make better beer.

Malticulous said:

Yeast from a 1.062 batch to a 1.100+ is pushing it. 2 gallons of 60/- would be great for a starter. Happy yeast make better beer.

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Pushing it a little maybe, but not too stressful of an environment. I airated the wort 3 times during the initial growth phase, and the yeast is fermenting perfectly at what is now 57 degrees. It will probably finish at about 5.7 abv, not too toxic. Plus I'll be using the yeast pretty quickly. I'm not going to use the whole cake, but I do want a massive pitch because I'm going to be fermenting the big beer as cold as possible and I don't want it to stall.

I've succesfully used 3rd gen yeast that's made nothing but 9-10% abv IIPAs and haven't noticed any real negative effects, maybe some lingering diacetyl on the last batch.

Out of curiosity, what sort of efficiency is everyone planning for this? I'm ordering ingredients this week, and want to plan ahead a bit. I normally am between 67% and 74% on normal gravity brews. A regular high gravity brew I'd adjust downwards, but with the extra boil-off from this recipe, should I just use my usual numbers?

Ezekielsays said:

Out of curiosity, what sort of efficiency is everyone planning for this? I'm ordering ingredients this week, and want to plan ahead a bit. I normally am between 67% and 74% on normal gravity brews. A regular high gravity brew I'd adjust downwards, but with the extra boil-off from this recipe, should I just use my usual numbers?

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Really hard to call. Ill probably sparge heavy or double batch sparge and shoot for 10 gallons preboil including the 2 gallons that I'm going to almost boil off, so my efficiency will probably be pretty good. My challenge will be hitting my batch size on a 90 minute boil. My brew kettle is 22 inches wide, and it boils off at a phenomenal rate with my banjo burner, something like a gallon in 20 minutes.

Not that I'm changing my recipe or desire to not use smoked malt I did find this.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/peat

So there ya go! Maybe what I'll do is blend some of my peated beer into a case worth of this wee heavy to see how it tastes.

I brewed this yesterday. MAN what a lot of work this beer is. The carmelization (2 gallons of 1.095 first runnings) took almost two hours. I did it on pretty high heat, and even when reduced the mixture boiled thickly to fill my 10 gallon kettle. I wanted to get good efficiency, so I took an additional 9 gallons of preboil out of the grain, and in the end I finished with 6 gallons of 1.104 wort, missed what I wanted by one point. So it was worth it. Boil took 120 minutes. Racked it to my 7.5 gallon carboy, chilled it to 52 degrees, and hit it with 800 billion yeast cells. I'm keeping it cold as hell, really restricting the fermentation at first because I really want that smokey character to come out of this yeast. Even with that massive pitch, it is a nice slow and steady chug. This is going to be quite a beer.

Stuck to what I said, 20 lbs MO, then I went 4.5 ounces RB for the 6 gallon batch

Aside from the initial bickering, this is an interesting thread. I haven't done a wee heavy yet, so I'm not going to raise my hand and insult those of you that have some mad skills at this. However, I'll be looking to learn from this thread for future usage, and might try my hand in January at making a batch.

usfmikeb said:

Aside from the initial bickering, this is an interesting thread. I haven't done a wee heavy yet, so I'm not going to raise my hand and insult those of you that have some mad skills at this. However, I'll be looking to learn from this thread for future usage, and might try my hand in January at making a batch.

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I don't think it was bickering exactly, just that of course brewers are opinionated on what they like and what they want to brew, which they should be. A beer like this is such a huge undertaking (it took me every bit of 8 hours) it should definitely be exactly what you want. I hope someone does use the same recipe I did, but if not I'll sure be interested to try what others have made. I will probably oak a gallon of this just to see what happens. I am definitely glad I did not use crystal malts, as this had a huge malty presence going into the carboy using only base malt, and even though I mashed at 149 degrees I am concerned about FG. Definitely not concerned about lack of mouth feel.

The holidays and my little son have kept me from brewing this, I plan on doing an early morning brew when I do. Makes the day more managable for me if I start at 4:30-5am.

I caught up with the thread. I'm interested in participating. I think I'll go with this:


I plan to make this in December (maybe even the 12th) and let it age for a year. Comments?

Brewed yesterday...Started a great fermentation in about four hours


Recipe: Wee-Heavy Scotch
Style: Strong Scotch Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.18 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.109 SG
Estimated Color: 22.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 71.2 %
Boil Time: 140 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 tsp Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 76.3 %
2 lbs Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3 7.6 %
1 lbs 1.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.2 %
8.0 oz Extra Special Malt (Briess) (130.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.9 %
6.4 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.5 %
4.8 oz Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 7 1.1 %
1 lbs 14.4 oz Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 8 7.3 %
2.15 oz Challenger [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 31.6 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 10 -
0.25 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 11 -
2.0 pkg Scottish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1728) [124.21 Yeast 12 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 26 lbs 3.2 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 7.50 gal of water at 169.5 F 157.0 F 60 min
Batch Sparge Add 2.50 gal of water at 205.8 F 168.0 F 15 min

Notes:
------
3 QTS of first runnings boiled hard until reduced to 1.5 QTS and added to kettle durring the 2hr 15 minute boil.

Steelers, what did your actual OG turn out to be?

I did a test run to get the process down. Made it 1.075 since I want it done fast. I used 14lbs total of MO and toasted 4lbs of it at 350 for 10 minutes. Took 1.75 gallons of first runnings and boiled it down to .75 gallons. I just did a 90 minute boil.

For the big one, I'm using all MO and 6oz of roasted barley. I'll also toast 4 to 6 lbs of the MO depending on how my test batch comes out.

I will hopefully brew this on Friday. I have 6oz of roasted barley and 6oz of English dark Crystal at 165L. The 28lbs of MO will put my mash at the limit (I'm brewing 7.5 gal). I'm figuring for a 3hour boil of the main runnings.

bottlebomber said:

Steelers, what did your actual OG turn out to be?

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1.108....I was damn close

I think I will plan on brewing one of these recipes on 12/12/11. My birthday is December 12th, so not a bad way to spend a birthday. Then I get to drink my creation on 12/12/12. I'll have more time to read over the post later and sift through some of the ideas, but I'm looking forward to it.

Drew a sample of this today, it went fron 1.104 to 1.028 in 4 days :rockin:

I'm pretty sure it will come down to 1.024 which is my ideal FG for this brew. Sample tastes a little hot, but it was 10%abv so that's forgivable after less than a week. The smokey flavor described by doing a colder fermentation is definitely coming through. I'm just suprised it came down so fast, I fermented this at 53 degrees and let it drift to 56 yesterday. I may end up doing a second batch of this and putting oak, crystal, heath, and bagpipes in it just to see what happens

Brewing my recipe tomorrow, decided to skip the smoked malt this time around & opted for Chocolate instead. Here's my KISS recipe.

Expected OG: 1.098
Expected FG: 1.025
Expected ABV: 9.4%
Boil Size: 6.5gal
Boil Length: 60 minutes
IBU's: 36
Expected SRM: 21
Expected Efficiency: 65%

20 lbs Golden Promise Malt (97.6%)
4 oz Roasted Barley (1.2%)
4 oz Chocolate Malt (1.2%)

2 oz EKG - F.W.H. (30 IBU's)
2 oz EKG - 5 mins (6 IBU's)

Caramelize 1st gallon of runnings down to .5 gallons, then add to boil. I think I will only do a 60 minute boil since I'm doing the caramelization anyway. This will be my second batch in my cooler, so I'm only shooting for 65%.