Basic cider recipe?

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Nexus555

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Hey guys, I was looking for a very basic "hard" cider recipe. From what I read it just seems to be 5 gallons of pastorized apple juice (with no perservatives) and champagne yeast. Does this sound correct? Please enlighten me!
 
Thats it . . .Excpet unless you want REALLY dry cider use another type of yeast, Whitelabs and Wyeast both sell cider yeast and ale yeast works well also
 
Thanks a lot. I might buy a new fermenter before I begin this adventure. 3 months using one of my beer fermenters just won't do!! :)
 
One last question I suppose. Is it not true that I could either carbonate it with priming suger (like most ciders sold at stores) or leave it flat (which I assume is "Apfelwein"). Is this correct, or is Apfelwein different in other ways?
 
Apfelwein has a higher ABV than cider. Cider is just fermented without added sugar (usually) and about 4-5% ABV. Apfelwein is higher- I think Edwort said 8%? And regular "apple wine" that I make is about 13% alcohol, and is a table wine.

And you can carbonate, or serve flat.
 
I made a cider for the missus using a champagne yeast, and it turned out drier than most champagne. She won't drink it, which is a real pain, but it might be useful for a punch of some sort at a future party. Next time, I'll use a milder yeast. I was going for a Strongbow type of drink, as it's her favorite. Lesson learned.

I also hadn't enough information at the onset...I bottled kinda quickly (a month in secondary) and left it to rest 4 months in bottle...I don't know if that makes a difference.
 
So you can get hard cider without starting with cider?

I have been debating this in my mind for a while....
1. Use Edwort's Apfelwein recipe. . .or
2. Use 5 gallons apple juice, no dextrose, and white labs cider yeast

Can't decide, maybe I will do both....

Question White labs says that their cider yeast produces sulphor that will clear with ~2 weeks of conditioning, does this have to be done cold?
 
Beerrific said:
So you can get hard cider without starting with cider?
. . . .
Question White labs says that their cider yeast produces sulphor that will clear with ~2 weeks of conditioning, does this have to be done cold?
Click to expand...

Not sure what your asking in your first question but you can get cider with just fresh pressed apple juice and a fermenter (the way I would like to do it). apples have natrual yeast on them and some antiseptic activity going on that should keep it from getting infected. Adding yeast to apple juice is what ya do if you dont have a reliable source for apples being pressed in your presence.

Cold conditioning is not required to get rid ot the sulphor stink, just time
 
Thanks for your reply. You answered my question, I was just wondering if you did not have to start with apple cider (as opposed to juice) to end up with hard cider.

So what is the taste difference (other than related to the % alcohol) in the apfelwein vs. hard cider?

Oh yeah, does anyone have an opinion: wyeast vs. white labs cider yeast?
 
I usually differentiate juice vs. cider by whether it has been filtered. I guess this gives it a different taste. I guess it doesn't really matter since if you let it sit all the 'stuff' in cider will settle out.

How about one more question:
What if I were to do this:
5 gallon apple juice
2 lb. dextrose
Cider yeast

To explain, I am looking to make a hard cider for some friends that really like cider, preserving that cider taste, while making something with a bit more kick.

Thanks for all your help.
 
Beerrific said:
I usually differentiate juice vs. cider by whether it has been filtered. I guess this gives it a different taste. I guess it doesn't really matter since if you let it sit all the 'stuff' in cider will settle out.

How about one more question:
What if I were to do this:
5 gallon apple juice
2 lb. dextrose
Cider yeast

To explain, I am looking to make a hard cider for some friends that really like cider, preserving that cider taste, while making something with a bit more kick.

Thanks for all your help.
Click to expand...

If you want to keep the apple flavor use apple juice/cider and concentrate. If you go with concentrate it will be less dry more fruity. The corn sugar will ferment out and taste dry.

I have a batch thats about 75% to being done. I used a 1 to 1 ratio of juice & concentrate. 1 gal juice to 1 can concentrate. It taste pretty damn good now. Just split it and racked to the 2ndarys with oregon fruits; Strawberry & Raspberry.

If you go with five gallon batch try 5 gal juice and 4 cans concentrate. Add 4 of each then top off with the last bit of juice. I'd pitch your yeast before you top off too.

Red Star's Cote Des Blancs is good - might take a month.

Nottingham will ferment quicker and be closer to the English style.

You can keep it real simple do 5 gal of juice and 1 can of concentrate and pitch either yeast.

Anyway of these ways should be good. The more concentrate the more ABV and apple flavor.

:mug:
 
Thanks for the input.

What was your ABV when you used the juice/concentrate combo?

Do you see any advantage to cider yeast over the Nottingham or the Red Star's?

Do you know the temp range for these? I can maintain low-mid 70s easily (White labs cider yeast is rate d up to 75).

Are you going to carb or still?

What would be the effect of doing the juice+concentrate+dextrose?

WOW bunch of questions..thanks.
 
I forgot to get a gravity reading. I need to ask one the other guys what they had with this ratio.

Nottingham 57-75F (Might high a bit high but you won't care about the fruitiness.)
Cote Des Blancs - 64-86F - Very Clean

I carb just like beer. 3/4 per 5 gal or 1oz wt per gal.

Juice + Concentrate + sugar = Rocket Fuel

2lbs corn sugar & 5gal juice = 8.5% ABV - Very Dangerous - Easy to go from OK to Messed up.

The alcohol is virtually unnoticable. :rockin:

I'll try to find out out the OG...

:mug:
 
I've made cider the past couple of years which both turned out great. Using 5 gallons of cider (I have found a blend of apples tastes better than one single type.) I add some cinnamon sticks, small amount of nutmeg, some fresh lemon juice and zest, 24 ounces of honey, some grated ginger and some gypsum. Note spices are in small amounts, if you are interested I can be more specific on the recipe. I use champagne yeast and it has always turned out great. It has quite a kick!
 
Stevenb I'm interested in your recipe.

if anyone else has a spiced cider recipe i'm interested
 
Pumbaa said:
BTW juice and cider are the same thing (atleast in the States)
Click to expand...

Depends on where in the states you are.. here in New England there is a diffrence.. there is juice (both filterd like motts and unfiltered "Organic") and then there is cider that usually comes only from orchards.. See pic below for visual diffrence.. there is also a noticeable taste diffrence.
ciderjuice.JPG

"Organic" Unfilterd Juice on the Left.. Apple Cider on the right..
They also are very diffrent when you add yeast and make them "Hard" Cider/Juice... The taste is hard to describe but the diffrences in the unfermented forms is still there once fermented..
Also cider is more likely to ferment on its own.. This actually just happend yesterday to a gallon I was going to add to a recipe... not too bad that way either.. naturally fermented and carbed (due to the cap staying on!)

SpamDog
 
C3Candy-
Here's the cider recipe I use. I like it and it hasn't failed me yet. The only difference I have noticed is in the "blend" of apples in the cider. The more the merrier I have found, some sour, some sweet.

Simmer 1 gallon of cider (45 minutes) with:

10 3" cinnamon sticks
1/2 tsp. nutmeg
1 squeezed lemon with 1/2 grated peel zest
24 ounces honey
1 tbsp. fresh grated ginger
1 tsp. gypsum

Add 3 tsp. pectin enzyme last minute

Strain into remaining 4 gallons of cider which should be about room temperature. This should get you to around 70 degrees temp. Add 5 crushed and disolved campden tablets and prepared champagne yeast. Depending on the potency of the cider I usually get an OG of 1.070 or so.

When fermentation is complete I am usually looking at a hydrometer reading of .95 or so. I condition for about 6 months, less if I am impatient but it's worth forgetting about it and let it sit. I keg, so I let it condition in the corny. I'm not sure what to do about carbonation in bottles, I'll let someone else chime in on that.
 
With my first cider, I used a Wyeast Draft Yeast and it worked wonderfully well.

My wife loves the cider... it was a two-gallon batch.
 
My first was with an Ale yeast and juice. One gallon test batch. Toward the end it started to taste like apple gasoline, not good. I added some more juice and bottled it. Worked out to be quite tasty, my wife liked it as well.

Did I brew past cider and into vinegar before I bottled it?
 
Well, you can't ferment "past" done into vinegar- it's either contaminated by acetobacter or not. But, you could ferment it until done, which is dry. And if you had a high og, it could easily be rocket fuel. Still, if you used ale yeast and just juice, it wouldn't go too high in the ABV as a rule. Most wine yeasts are capable of 16-18% alcohol which would not taste very good in a cider! I'm not sure about ale yeast, but if it worked out for you that's great!
 
stevenb said:
C3Candy-
Here's the cider recipe I use. I like it and it hasn't failed me yet. The only difference I have noticed is in the "blend" of apples in the cider. The more the merrier I have found, some sour, some sweet.

Simmer 1 gallon of cider (45 minutes) with:

10 3" cinnamon sticks
1/2 tsp. nutmeg
1 squeezed lemon with 1/2 grated peel zest
24 ounces honey
1 tbsp. fresh grated ginger
1 tsp. gypsum

Add 3 tsp. pectin enzyme last minute

Strain into remaining 4 gallons of cider which should be about room temperature. This should get you to around 70 degrees temp. Add 5 crushed and disolved campden tablets and prepared champagne yeast. Depending on the potency of the cider I usually get an OG of 1.070 or so.

When fermentation is complete I am usually looking at a hydrometer reading of .95 or so. I condition for about 6 months, less if I am impatient but it's worth forgetting about it and let it sit. I keg, so I let it condition in the corny. I'm not sure what to do about carbonation in bottles, I'll let someone else chime in on that.
Click to expand...

sounds like a good one to have for christmas. May have to whip up a batch of this soon, and have it for the holidays.
 
Beerrific said:
I usually differentiate juice vs. cider by whether it has been filtered. I guess this gives it a different taste. I guess it doesn't really matter since if you let it sit all the 'stuff' in cider will settle out.

How about one more question:
What if I were to do this:
5 gallon apple juice
2 lb. dextrose
Cider yeast

To explain, I am looking to make a hard cider for some friends that really like cider, preserving that cider taste, while making something with a bit more kick.

Thanks for all your help.
Click to expand...

If you are looking for "cider" taste, leave out the sugar. That makes it a "wine" taste and higher ABV, not sweet and cidery. I just finished 1 lb corn sugar, 4 gallons apple juice, 4 cans concentrate and Cotes yeast and it turned out way too "wine-like" for me.
 
I just ordered the Montrachet yeast for EdWort's Apfelwein recipe, but from reading this post it sounds like it may be a bit too dry for my taste, will adding concentrate make the finished product sweeter than without? I want to keep the dextrose because I like my drinks strong but I would have thought that the concentrate would ferment like everything else, is this not correct? One last question, what is with the crazy long fermenting/conditioning times you guys have?
 
Yes, whatever you add will ferment out whether it's sugar or concentrate. You can wait until it's done and then stabilize it before sweetening. You can have a sweeter more apple-y cider that way. If you stabilze it, it will have to be a still cider unless you are kegging. If you want to carbonate, you can add an unfermentable sugar to it to sweeten.

The reason ciders take longer to ferment/age than beer is because it's higher ABV than beer. It's less than for wine, though. My wines are usually 12-13% ABV and take at least a year to be really good. My beer is around 5-6% and is ready is 6 weeks. Cider is between. Cider is basically a lower ABV wine, really. The higher you boost the ABV, the longer it will take to age out.
 
So the basic life cycle to the basic cider recipe is this?

  1. Open fermenter
  2. add juice
  3. pitch yeast
  4. wait a long time
  5. while you wait
    • sugars in juice ferment
    • alcohol is made
    • fermentation continues until there are no sugars left
  6. cider has reached max abv and can be bottled
Items to note
  • bottled as such it will not be carbonated
  • bottled as such it will most likely be very dry and pretty high in abv
  • it can be kegged for carbonation
  • you can add fermentable sugars prior to bottling to carbonate
  • you can sweeten it with unfermentable sugars or,
  • you can stabilize the brew, aka kill the yeast, to add fermentables to sweeten the brew but
  • if you do this it can only be carbonated in a keg

"is this more or less correct?" lamented the newber brewer
 
that's how it sounds. I'm still confused on using concentrate, is that for a higher ABV since there would be more sugar/volume? Is unfermentable sugar added pre/post/primary/conditioning?
 
Right, but not high ABV. Depending on the amount of natural sugar in juice, hard cider may be 5-7% alcohol. Higher than beer, but not "high alcohol". Of course if you add some more fementables (juice concentrate or sugar), you'll boost the ABV but it will take longer to ferment and to age. Wine has much more ABV, but takes forever to age and mellow.

I don't understand the question about the concentrate, sorry.
 
I was asking what the purpose of concentrate was, but you answered it.

At what stage in the process is the unfermentable sugars added? What would be a typical dose for a 5 gallon batch?
 
Concentrate increases fermentable sugars without diluting the apple flavor. If you want to use unfermentable sugars to sweeten a cider, add them when fermentation is complete, and add them to taste.
 

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