checking og?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

allanyork

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
I made a canned kit of muntons Canadian ale on Sunday night. It called for 1 kg of sugar to get a og of 1.044. I got about 1.040 with that amount of sugar, so I wanted to add more to add a little more alcohol. I added about another kg and it only rose to 1.050. What's the deal? How much sugar should it take to bring the og up to 1.075 or so? Or was it that the sugar sat at the bottom and I couldn't get a reliable reading? I did spin it up a lot, I thought it was mixed well. Think its OK to add more sugar when I rack to secondary in a couple days? Or maybe I should add dry hops?
 
I made a canned kit of muntons Canadian ale on Sunday night. It called for 1 kg of sugar to get a og of 1.044. I got about 1.040 with that amount of sugar, so I wanted to add more to add a little more alcohol. I added about another kg and it only rose to 1.050. What's the deal? How much sugar should it take to bring the og up to 1.075 or so? Or was it that the sugar sat at the bottom and I couldn't get a reliable reading? I did spin it up a lot, I thought it was mixed well. Think its OK to add more sugar when I rack to secondary in a couple days? Or maybe I should add dry hops?

Too much sugar is going to make the beer thin, with a dry finish, and not really all that "beer"like. Beer gets its flavor from malt.

If you want a good tasting beer, for next time leave out the sugar completely and replace it with dry malt extract.

If you want to go all the way up to 1.075, you'd probably be better off not using that kit because the idea of a good beer is about balance- the correct amount of bittering with the correct amount of malt. To have just a ton of fermentables, to boost the alcohol level, without adding the proper amount of hops to balance it will not make a good beer.

For this time, since it's already mostly sugar, I definitely would NOT add more sugar.
 
As Yooper said just adding sugar to a kit is not likely to have a desirable result.

Let this one go as it is then get a new kit that is designed to give you the beer that you want. I suggest a better kit with fresh liquid extract, or dry malt extract and steeping grains for extra flavor.
 
Its only 2 kg of sugar in total. And you are saying I can't add hops? Wouldnt this add flavor?
 
Its only 2 kg of sugar in total. And you are saying I can't add hops? Wouldnt this add flavor?

"only" 2 kg of sugar is a lot! How many Kg of malt was used? It sounds like more sugar than malt, which is not a good thing.

Those kits aren't great quality anyway, but by cutting it with even more sugar it makes it less good.
 
There's nothing I can do to it? I can't add hops or any grains? I don't know how or when to use these things. I was also asking if I added that much sugar to it then why didn't the original gravity change much?
 
munton's kits are 3.3 lbs/1.5 kg LME

so it's now 57% sugar

it's going to be a very dry beer.

you can add hops, it will be a very dry, hoppy beer
 
So by me adding an extra .010 to the original gravity I ruined the beer?
 
Its all about balance. Would you add a cup of sugar to your plate of spaghetti?
I think you will have a very thin dry cidery beer.
 
So by me adding an extra .010 to the original gravity I ruined the beer?

Well, adding the first bit of sugar was bad enough (next time, use malt extract instead of the sugar). I think they tell you to add 1 kg of sugar? That's already too much, to be honest, but it makes the kit cheaper than if you buy more extract.

Then doubling the amount of sugar means that the "beer" isn't even made mostly out of malt- it's not going to taste all that great. It might be a bit cidery in the finish, without a good malt flavor like beer has.

It's entirely possible that your OG reading is incorrect since it's hard to mix up sugar and water and extract that well.

If you made 23 L of this concoction, the OG is 1.053. It has to be- the sugars in the malt extract are fixed, as is the amount of fermentables in the pure sugar. It will be about 6.5-7% ABV when it's done. That doesn't mean it will taste good- but it will have alcohol in it.

Think of it this way. Say you are making spaghetti sauce, but only have one can of tomato sauce (1.5 Kg). But you want a bigger quantity, so you add 2 Kgs of chicken broth. That might make more sauce, but it won't make it better sauce.

The same is true with this beer kit- you can make more alcohol in it, but it will not improve the quality or the flavor. Each "boost" will water it down by adding alcohol and taking away malt flavor (just like adding chicken broth in a large quantity to the spaghetti sauce).

For now, I'd recommend just leaving it alone and make a new plan for next time.
 
wouldn't say it's completely ruined, and would recommend you definitely NOT throw it out.

but I don't think it will be very good.
 
I understand that its to sugary at this point. What can I do that will improve this ****y beer. I'm on a budget I don't have a lot of money to spend on it. Thats why I bought a canned kit.
 
I understand that its to sugary at this point. What can I do that will improve this ****y beer. I'm on a budget I don't have a lot of money to spend on it. Thats why I bought a canned kit.

Not much. But to keep messing with it will only make it worse.

It should be drinkable, if you get it super cold before drinking.
 
So by me adding an extra .010 to the original gravity I ruined the beer?

depends on your definition of ruined. If you expect a somewhat dry alcoholic malt tasting beverage with bitterness and thin mouth feel (think water) then no. If you expect a somewhat thicker(think milk), more flavorful beer like flavor then probably.

In a beer it is generally best to go no more than 20 to 25% non malt fermentables (sugar, honey, fruit juice, etc). More than that thins out the beer and leaves you with alcohol, but less beer flavor.

Does this mean it won't be drinkable? maybe maybe not. Only your tastes can tell, but it won't be as good as it could/should have been.

When you move this to a secondary (called racking) taste it. If it seems like being more bitter, or could use some hop flavor, then put in 1/2 to 1 oz of hops, otherwise don't bother.

I'd recommend if you wnat more fermentables, reach for a can of unhopped extract next time.

And if this is not very drinkable, chalk it up to experience, grab another recipe and give another go. BTW, typically beers will have between 1.040 and 1.050 OG. A higher gravity beer will be above 1.060. A Begian double forinstance has a range of 1.060 to 1.075 if I recall correctly. (Tripples go I think 1.070 to 1.085)
 
Another vote agreeing with others: let it ride. You may like what kind of beer it turns out to be. What kind of yeast did you pitch? If you want to dry hop it when you rack, you'll at least impart some aroma that might mask any cidery notes. It won't affect anything else all that much.
 
how will it taste?

buy a Molsons Ale. dump about 1/3 out, fill it back up with vodka, swirl it around a little. take a sip

yum?

if all you want is alcohol on a budget, you've got the vodka
 
Alright guys thanks for the responces. I understand, guess I'll try malt extract next time and not add anything extra. Guess we will find out in time how awful this abomination is. I think next time I'll try a red beer.
 
Each pound of table sugar per gallon adds 46 gravity points (raises gravity by 0.046)

Wish I would have known that sooner lol. I thought adding sugar would have increased it a lot. So I only added around what 1%?
 
Each pound of table sugar per gallon adds 46 gravity points (raises gravity by 0.046)

Um, not quite. it adds 46 points - .046 if added to only 1 gallon. If added to 5 gallons, it will add 46 points but bring the gravity up by only .009 (46/5).

So assuming the OP added 1 kg which is 2.2lb, he should have added about 100 points (101.2) but only raised the gravity .020 - he said .010 (1.040 to 1.050).

relation between sugar points and gravity is that sugar points are expressed in points per gallon (usually points per pound gallon) and thus need to be divided by the volume of the wort/beer.
 
You should ride this beer out, as is. It is basically past the point where you could add anything useful, except maybe do some dry hopping. But I wouldn't do that until it is fermented out and you've tasted your hydrometer sample.

Now keep in mind, this beer really doesn't have enough maltiness to sustain a lot of hops to keep or create a good flavor balance. It will always be a very dry beer.

Reading this book may improve your understanding of creating better beer:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html

If you're on a (tight) budget wouldn't you rather save up for one good brew once in while than buy multiple so-so-provide-your-own-sugar kits?

There are many kits available ranging from very marginal quality through all levels of mediocre-ness to actually some very good ones. Cost sometimes being an indication of quality, but not generally as a rule.

Or alternatively, buy the ingredients needed for one of Palmer's recipes, or one you found here.
 
You should ride this beer out, as is. It is basically past the point where you could add anything useful, except maybe do some dry hopping. But I wouldn't do that until it is fermented out and you've tasted your hydrometer sample.

Now keep in mind, this beer really doesn't have enough maltiness to sustain a lot of hops to keep or create a good flavor balance. It will always be a very dry beer.

Reading this book may improve your understanding of creating better beer:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html

If you're on a (tight) budget wouldn't you rather save up for one good brew once in while than buy multiple so-so-provide-your-own-sugar kits?

There are many kits available ranging from very marginal quality through all levels of mediocre-ness to actually some very good ones. Cost sometimes being an indication of quality, but not generally as a rule.

Or alternatively, buy the ingredients needed for one of Palmer's recipes, or one you found here.

Alright I'll read this. Thanks for your well articulated response.
 
Alright I'll read this. Thanks for your well articulated response.
You're very welcome. That book is one of the best references in the home brewer's field, and friendly to those new to this great hobby.

I'm glad the complete content is available online, and in time it wouldn't hurt any home brewer to own a hard copy of it. I've seen it for $7.60 on Amazon and even lower used.

Also this forum is a marvelous resource. In my 2 short months here I've already learnt more techniques and pointers than in 4 years of off-and-on brewing.
 
Only issue with 'how to brew' is that it was written some time ago when homebrewing was still young - or younger. The concern of autolysis (yeast breakdown/ yeast eating yeast) is overstated for the typical homebrewer. Maybe if you are making in conicals, but not for the typical. What this means is that you don't have to secondary, but can if you wish. I think Palmer has updated it for the latest edition, but the online is the 1st edition and thus has some older thoughts.
 
I have the 3rd and latest edition (2006) and he still mentions the secondary fermentor to prevent autolysis.

I hope he's revising again with attention to modern techniques such as BIAB, hop spiders, hop baskets, hop stands, whirlpooling, dry hop methods, and anything else that's current here.

It is hard to keep up when home brewing is reaching high krausen.
 
It is hard to keep up when home brewing is reaching high krausen.

LOL.. that is great.

If a person does a search on autolysis, or secondary ffermnetors, eventaully up comes a pod cast that palmer did where he basically says "yeah it isn't as big a problem for HB as was originally thought" I thought he was getting it into a book, but if the last revision was 2006, and I think the podcast was late 2009... well there is the problem. He needs a TARDIS
 
Substituting malt extract for your sugar. 500 grams of dry malt extract and 500 grams of brewing sugar has given me good results on two brews
 
Wish I would have known that sooner lol. I thought adding sugar would have increased it a lot. So I only added around what 1%?

well it will in 5 gallons add 1% per pound of sugar. if you added 1kg, it will add a bit over 2% per kg on 5 gallons/19L

As for how to do this with malt?

I probably would have replaced the sugar (especially if if was table sugar) with DME. 1 for 1. They have about the same sugar point DME is 44 to 46. Frankly I think I've seen ratings of sugar from 44 to 46, so I guess it depends on who was measuring. But 2 on 46 is only about 4% so good enough I figure.

Now a problem with adding DME is that it doesn't add the same ABV because Malt isn't 100% fermentable like sugar is, so although you'd add about 46pts per pound - about 9 points in 5 gallons (sorry doing that pound gallon thing) the fermentables are about 75 to 80% with Malt (depending on yeast attenuation. 75% is a good number to work with), so it will add slightly less than 1% per pound, although if you by it in kg and get 1 kg it should add about 2% - since as sugar it would have added over 2%.

I'm not sure on how bitterness balance woudl work out. you might need a little more hops to help balance, or might not.

For yoru original recipe, it was 1 can (1.5kg) LME and 1 kg of sugar. I'd have done the 1.5kg of LME and anodther 1 to 1.5KG of DME. But again that is just the malt. Although that seems to be what your recipe called for from what you said.

Another option, would be do do less water. with the can of LME - and only the can. Instead of 20L do say 12 to 15L or even 10L. This way you don't dilute the hoppiness. >or maybe not this idea I'm really just this writing faster than I'm evaluating<

Some basics for you - 8pt gravity change is about 1%abv (or close enough for simple calcs). Sugar and DME add 46 points per pound gallon (ie 1 lb in 1 gallon) LME adds about 36 (35 to 37) Honey(US) is about the same.
With this you can take your Extract/sugar/etc and figure out what the OG should about be. say within 1 or 2 points. So 5 lb of DME with 5 gallons should get an og of 5*46/5=230points/5 = 46! or with 6lb 6*46/5=276/5=55.

That can be a basis for figuring out alcohol content. But that doesn't help with balance of flavor. Balancing the sweet of the malt, the feel of the alcohol and the bitters of the hop are beyond this post.
 
Back
Top