FAQ: Aluminum Pots for Boil Kettles?

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I've done some reading that Aluminum oxide is thought to be a leading link to Alzheimer disease, it has some controversy though.

Regardless it's a known fact that aluminum oxide transfers to things it comes in contact with. Stainless steel doesn't. Not to mention I hate the scratching and cleanup of an Aluminum pot.

If you want to have a good time put a drop of mercury in your Aluminum pot and watch as it oxidizes to a pile of dust over the next few days.
 
I've done some reading that Aluminum oxide is thought to be a leading link to Alzheimer disease, it has some controversy though.

If by "some controversy" you mean it's been totally debunked...

Edit: From the first post...

Myths About Aluminum Pots:
- Aluminum pots will cause Alzheimer's disease. FALSE. This myth was debunked years ago by the medical research community, and the US National Institutes of Health and Health Canada have long since ruled out a connection between Alzheimer’s disease and aluminum cookware. If you don’t believe me, see the following:
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99
http://alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp
http://www.ehso.com/ehshome/alzheimers.htm
 
I've done some reading that Aluminum oxide is thought to be a leading link to Alzheimer disease, it has some controversy though.

Regardless it's a known fact that aluminum oxide transfers to things it comes in contact with. Stainless steel doesn't. Not to mention I hate the scratching and cleanup of an Aluminum pot.

If you want to have a good time put a drop of mercury in your Aluminum pot and watch as it oxidizes to a pile of dust over the next few days.

A lot of intellectual weight behind this comment. you start with fear mongering with false claims of aluminum oxide causing Alzheimer's disease (no correlation, see OP links). Then you finish up by advocating one to put a drop of mercury! (a known neurotoxin) into your aluminum pot for fun. Granted, elemental mercury is not particularly toxic per se, but it gives you very little credibility nonetheless.
 
I bought an aluminum 32 quart pot at walmart - IMUSA Tamale and Seafood 32-Quart Steamer

I've been using it on my natural gas burner. The guage is not anything special, but its not as thin as some SS pots I've seen.

Anybody got any suggestions on helping me make this kettle last a long while even though I'm putting it in direct fire? I mean, with the direct fire of an 18 tip natural gas burner, don't I shorten the lifespan of the aluminum bottom?
 
I bought an aluminum 32 quart pot at walmart - IMUSA Tamale and Seafood 32-Quart Steamer

I've been using it on my natural gas burner. The guage is not anything special, but its not as thin as some SS pots I've seen.

Anybody got any suggestions on helping me make this kettle last a long while even though I'm putting it in direct fire? I mean, with the direct fire of an 18 tip natural gas burner, don't I shorten the lifespan of the aluminum bottom?

As long as you are not throwing it across the room or otherwise abusing it that kettle should last your entire brewing life.
 
I am having a hard time finding kegs for sale in my area (that when I call have not already been sold). I did find a restaurant supply company that can provide a 60qt aluminum pot for $65 and based on this thread I am probably going to buy one for my boil kettle.
 
That's a pretty good price. Check out waresdirect.com and search for update international. Don't know if they can beat your price, but they have great stuff super cheap. I'm about to order a 60 qt SS for 120.
 
Really glad that I'm a member of this site and found this thread.

I just picked up a 30qt pot-and-burner (turkey fryer) from Home Depot for $40 at the encouragement of a buddy who said you can usually get a reall good deal after the holidays. After I bought it, he goes, "Oh but Aluminum isn't good for making beer..."

Of COURSE I googled it when I got home, and this thread popped up, top of the list.

Some great reading here, and as I've just assembled this pretty bastard, I'm going to get some water boiling before I put it to further use.

Thanks, HBT!!! Looking forward to another active year of brewing!!
 
That's a pretty good price. Check out waresdirect.com and search for update international. Don't know if they can beat your price, but they have great stuff super cheap. I'm about to order a 60 qt SS for 120.

Yeah, they are able to beat my local restaurant supply but the shipping doubled the price on the aluminum pot. I think this Friday I will go buy one or two.

One additional question. If I use stainless steel weldless valves will I get any electrolysis? Or is the wort and water solutions not acid enough to really do anything.
 
Palmer is a Metallurgist and a Homebrewer. He also says that aluminum pots are fine for brewing.

That means they are fine for brewing...... Why is this still going on.
 
Quick question... how long do you boil water for when you are "conditioning" the alluminion pot?(or whatever the word for it is) and secondly do you clean the pot after u boil the water? And if so how and wist do u use to clean it? Thank you in advance
 
Quick question... how long do you boil water for when you are "conditioning" the alluminion pot?(or whatever the word for it is) and secondly do you clean the pot after u boil the water? And if so how and wist do u use to clean it? Thank you in advance

1) Depends on your water and such. Normally it ranges from 30-90 minutes (boil time) to get the nice dark coating in the pot.

2) If just water was in it, either dry it out, or let it air dry. Do NOT 'clean' it since you want to keep that dark coating. After using it to boil wort, use a sponge, or cotten towel/rag with some dish soap to clean it. IF you have crud in it, use the most mild scrubber you have and be gentle with it. Again, you want to leave that coating intact.
 
Just wanted to post a thanks for the waresdirect.com recommendation. Although the company has abysmal reviews online, I received my new 10 gal. aluminum heavy pot without any issues in about a week.
 
Quick question... how long do you boil water for when you are "conditioning" the alluminion pot?(or whatever the word for it is) and secondly do you clean the pot after u boil the water? And if so how and wist do u use to clean it? Thank you in advance

I would not fret much about conditioning the pot. This is good advice, and likely worth doing, but not worth getting hung up on IMO. Aluminum oxide forms almost instantaneously in air, the boiling water merely provides a thicker layer of oxide. After one batch, you will have plenty oxide layer.

I have never heard the comment that someone was lacking enough alum oxide and had issues w/ the finished beer.
 
FlyGuy,
Where do I learn what this "passive oxide layer must be built up before brewing (**see note below) with a new aluminum kettle, although it is very easy to maintain is"? There were no *s below your original post
 
jstraight said:
FlyGuy,
Where do I learn what this "passive oxide layer must be built up before brewing (**see note below) with a new aluminum kettle, although it is very easy to maintain is"? There were no *s below your original post

Just boil water in it for 30 minutes and you are good to go. You will see a discoloring. That is a good thing.
 
HOLY CRAP I'VE REACHED THE END OF THE THREAD!!! What a journey.

Thanks to all of you that commented. This took me a couple hours to get through. Based on all the knowledge shared, I'm going to end up going with either: http://www.katom.com/158-5814140.html
or
http://www.katom.com/158-5813140.html
or
http://www.katom.com/158-5814132.html

The differences in these two types being the 6mm (2 gauge) or 4mm (6 gauge). And $20. I'm thinkin' more along the lines of the thicker metal = more even heating and it should fit on my stove without a problem.

I'm not sure I can justify going up to a 40qt as I doubt I'll be doing more than 5 gal batches for quite some time....indecision!
 
I think you would be fine with the 4mm pot. I bought a 4mm 60 quart pot with lid for a hundred bucks and I cannot believe how thick it is. 4mm is just under a 1/4" thick. I had a hard time getting my heating element to be leak free, but I got it.



ForumRunner_20120308_094237.jpg
 
Thanks, borny! I ended up with one that looks identical to yours - is 4mm thick. I went with a Winco one that has a thicker bottom and is 32 qt. Oxidized last night and it looks nice now - ready for some brewing anyway. I need to find a way to insulate the pot now though as it boils awesome with the lid on...but then as soon as i take it off it goes back to 211.

Since I got the dang thing just so I could start doing full boils, that's not going to cut it so I need to figure out which option or options make the most sense:
1: Get a new gas range with a high powered burner (my wife's not likin' that as counter-intuitive as that sounds)
2: Get an outdoor burner and start doing outdoor full boils - I could do this year round I guess but would prefer not to in winters here in MI
3: Understand the right way to insulate the pot and get those supplies. My question here is whether it will make that much of a difference?

Anyone else had this problem?
 
I have the same pot, winco 60 quart... I do have a similar problem, kind of. I have a heating element and it appears to take about 10% more power to maintain the same boil I had in a keg... I will eventually get the aluminum (?) insulation others use one the board. If I were you, I would look for a cheap burner or just leave the lid on halfway during the boil....
 
Would it be okay to get the oxide layer by filling with water and Oxyclean? It looks like the same dark layer and would not require a boil. The reason I ask is that it took about 3 hours to get a boil in my 15 gallon aluminum pot when it was full.
 
Cabby58 said:
Would it be okay to get the oxide layer by filling with water and Oxyclean? It looks like the same dark layer and would not require a boil. The reason I ask is that it took about 3 hours to get a boil in my 15 gallon aluminum pot when it was full.

I heard vinager and water will do it. I think oxyclean is a o2 based cleaner, meaning it strips o2 for cleaning. Don't think that is what you want to ue.
 
After reading this thread, I decided to do an experiment! I got a brand new 40 qt aluminum pot that I've just finished oxidizing. While oxidizing the inside, I took the posts on this thread and some info I read elsewhere about aluminum and oxidizing for food preperation into account.
No hypothesis, I just wanted to see if it gets any noticibly darker or lighter from boiling with water for longer than 1 hour or from boiling wort vs water. Here are the results.

The very top layer has never touched boiling water and looks the same as when I pulled off the plastic wrapping. The second layer down (in between the top two arrows) was boiled in tap water for 1 hour. The third layer down (in between the 2nd and 3rd arrows) was boiled in a weak wort made of table sugar and NB hops for 1 hour (in addition to the first boil). The very bottom layer (underneath the lowest arrow) was boiled in tap water for 1 more hour.
IMO, if you read this thread and still feel paranoid about using aluminum, then be warned that "paranoia will destroy ya!" not aluminum or alzeheimers. Live in fear and you're wasting time that could be spent feeling good. Be strong and confident, and even if alzeheimers gets ya (like it did my grandpa), you'll leave behind a legacy to be proud of.
Thanks all for the info! :D
 
While pure Al and Al-based compounds do affect brain chemistry (Audus) and grey matter peroxidation (Fraga, Oteiza, and et al), there is no direct correlation between brain lipid peroxidation, increased permeability of the blood brain barrier and all of the other interesting things that aluminum does to your brain, and encephalopathy (brain disease). That being said, Al2O3 (Aluminum oxide) is a very hard substance. It is used for high grit sandpaper, for sanding metal. As a sailor, I have had to attempt to polish it or sand it off of aluminum hulls, and that is not fun, let me tell ya. If you boil vinegar in your kettle you are creating aluminum acetate which is a completely different subject.

Not being a neurologist but merely an overeducated military member, I see it this way: Aluminum is harmful, yes. Studies show this. The thing that really saves your bacon is that Al is not soluble in water, so it cannot poison you in this way. There you go; some simple research leaves you with interesting data, provided you are willing to look up all of the definitions of the various neuroscience terms in the abstracts.

To break it all down? You're probably fine using Al pots and pans. And I'll keep using my aluminum sandwiched SS boil kettle. Which is exactly what everyone else said. Have fun, make some good brews.


Works Cited:
Audus, Kenneth. "ScienceDirect.com." Aluminum effects on brain microvessel endothelial cell monolayer permeability. University of Kansas, 21 Jan 1988. Web. 17 Jun 2012. <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0378517388902955>.
Fraga, , Oteiza, and et al. "Uk Pubmed Central." Effects of aluminum on brain lipid peroxidation. University of California Berkley, 1990. Web. 17 Jun 2012. <http://ukpmc.ac.uk/abstract/MED/2330606>.
 
I've been working on my All-grain equipment lately and just picked up a 32 qt aluminum pot (Thermalloy) from my local restaurant supply store. It was a bit dirty from the warehouse so I washed it with some dish soap in my sink not realizing (or at least not thinking about the fact) that my dish soap actually includes oxy (Palmolive Oxy Plus). I washed it for a few minutes to get the layer of dust off then rinsed off the soap and loaded it up with water for a good boil straddling two burners on my electric stove. After 2 hours it had still not come to a rolling boil ( checked a few times with a digital thermometer and it seemed to plateau at 99 C so I gave up and noticed when I was dumping the water that the surface of my range had acquired quite a bit of damage. The aluminum plate below my stovetop coil had pretty much disintegrated and the metal insert below that was heavily damaged (see images). The pot seems to be fine aside from the desired darkening of the inside but there was a fair bit of grey residue that came off the bottom and the stove coil.

Is this a result of the washing with oxy + boiling or is there some other reason for why this occurred?

2012-10-17 08.58.54.jpg


2012-10-17 08.59.07-2.jpg
 
That is definitely *not* normal, and there's no way that the dish soap caused it even with the oxy (percarbonate). If the pot had a pinhole leak and was keeping the element and drip pan wet, you may have got some leakage current from the element, causing corrosion. That's a very crazy amount of rust though, assuming it was new'ish looking and shiny when you started. Wow. Definitely not caused by the pot though.

Your second picture looks like baked-on food spatter from another session. It should come off with a non-scratch scrub pad and a bit of elbow grease.

Edit: Alternatively, the high heat of having the burner on full-blast may have removed the layer of chrome from the drip pan, and exposed the steel underneath. The steel will rust fairly readily with exposure to moisture.
 
Yeah, the drip pan was fine before I started. There was no obvious dirt on the stove top when I started but there may have been residual oil specks that burned or something of that nature. I was able to clean most of it off with a baking soda paste left to dry anyway.

I ended up talking to an engineer friend of mine last night on the issue and his thought was that the extra oxygen+heat on the bottom of the pot combined with the different metal of the burner was enough to convert the entire system into a battery/induce galvanic corrosion.

Grabbed a picture of the aluminum foil pan that disintegrated for good measure.

2012-10-17 17.28.58.jpg
 
A very thought provoking post, thank you for writing it.

My thought on the subject is, there aren't a lot of studies on this subject of aluminum cookware however why chance it.

I did read that test studies on mice lead to, among other things "localized hair loss" and other disorders that lead them to summarize; "short term feeding of aluminum at levels within an order of magnitude of estimated human intake can influence neurobehavioral function as indexed by motor activity."

This was from the NBCI web site.

While it was believed that leaching from cookware was a minor contributor, there are other sources such as drinking water, medicines, pharmaceuticals (such as antacids and antiperspirants) that are the biggest contributors to aluminum exposures.

Why add to it with your cookware, however slight.

I'll use SS.
 
Just to stir up an old thread...I have a 20 quart aluminum pot which I purchased new, but never oxidized before I brewed with it. I've done 3 batches in it so far. My question is should I go ahead and boil some water in it to build an oxidized layer after I've already used it, or is that not necessary now?
 
Just to stir up an old thread...I have a 20 quart aluminum pot which I purchased new, but never oxidized before I brewed with it. I've done 3 batches in it so far. My question is should I go ahead and boil some water in it to build an oxidized layer after I've already used it, or is that not necessary now?

Provided you didn't scrub the hell out of the pot, removing any oxide layer formed, you should be fine.

Normally, you boil the absolute maximum you can in the pot, to get the layer to form above what your expect to ever put in there.

Also, as you brew, the layer will thicken (as it can or if allowed to). Simply clean gently (don't scrub the hell out of it unless you absolutely have to) and let it keep forming. Similar to what happens with cast iron pans/skillets.
 
Thanks for your response Golddiggie, I have cleaned only with a soft sponge and a mild soap so far. No scrubbing. I have only done partial boils in this pot so far so probably only about 2.5 gals or about 1/2 of the pot. I'm moving to all grain for my next batch and plan to use this pot for sparge water since I now have a 44 quart SS for brewing. Would it be advantageous to do a 30 min full topped off boil to make sure the whole pot is oxidized? I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to try out my new Bayou burner...lol.
 
Thanks for your response Golddiggie, I have cleaned only with a soft sponge and a mild soap so far. No scrubbing. I have only done partial boils in this pot so far so probably only about 2.5 gals or about 1/2 of the pot. I'm moving to all grain for my next batch and plan to use this pot for sparge water since I now have a 44 quart SS for brewing. Would it be advantageous to do a 30 min full topped off boil to make sure the whole pot is oxidized? I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to try out my new Bayou burner...lol.

Yeah, sure, yeah, that will be a *wink* good idea *wink*... lol It won't do any harm, that's for certain. :D
 
Either way its fine. Brew on a new al pot and you get the amount of al that's in an antacid. Not to mention that aluminum cannot pass thru the brain-blood barrier but I digress .....
 
Well, I did a 4.5 gal boil for 45 mins yesterday just to ease my mind. Happy to report my burner kicks butt and my pot is now oxidized. I celebrated by sampling a bottle my first 5 gal batch. Not a bad day!
 

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