Mail order yeast in summer = bad idea?

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Slobberchops

Slobberchops

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My last Northern Brewer order included 2 liquid yeast packages - one vial of White Labs and one smack-pack of Wyeast. I had some trouble with both.

I pitched the White Labs directly into the fermenter and itl never really got going. I ended up finding another vial at a LHBS and repitching with a better result.

With this experience in mind, I made a starter for the Wyeast smack-pack. And it took a long time to get going...about a week. And my fermentation ended up working out OK.

Because I am a slow learner (and because the yeast I wanted was unavailable locally), I included yeast in my next Northern Brewer order. I got a vial of WLP810. Since I am planning on brewing my first lager this weekend, and am planning on making my first 10 gallon batch, I knew I'd need a lot of yeast so I started making a starter this weekend for brewing next weekend. And so far I haven't gotten much action from my yeast. I mail-ordered because I couldn't get the yeast locally, but I've ask my nearest LHBS to order some for me.

Has anyone else had trouble with mail order liquid yeast this summer? I have been pretty happy with NB as a source for homebrew supplies, and they package yeast in an envelope with an icepack (and I get it in the fridge ASAP upon receipt), but I am not sure that is enough.
 
I have from NB. It arrived hot to the touch. I know they offer( for additional fee) ice packs, but it was not enough. +1 on the making a starter
 
I have ordered liquid yeast during summer several times and it's always worked. I just consider the package older than the date on the package when trying to determine viability/pitching rates/starter sizes.

As for them starting slow, next time you make a starter try chilling the starter wort all the way down to about 60* F, aerate it, and then just pitch the yeast straight from the fridge (don't let it warm up) but smack it first if it's a Wyeast smack pack (there are nutrients in the pouch). Then just let it go at room temp. It might help it start a little faster. You can do the same thing with the actual batch of beer too: chill it to ~60* F, aerate, and then decant/pitch your starter straight from the fridge (don't let it warm up).
 
As stated - the starter is a must regardless of the handling situation.

I also mail order my liquid yeast. My advice is to be smart about where and when you are ordering. One issue is freshness (or turnover), the other is transit time. I order from an online shop that I can get Fedex ground shipments from in 2 days. I always order on a Monday, and I make sure to include ice packs with the order. The ice pack is not frozen when I get the package, but the bags and yeast are still cool.

Joe
 
We never give yeast enough credit. There shouldn't be any reason they die at summer temperatures. Before we had refrigeration did yeast migrate north for the summer? :D
 
jfowler1 said:
As stated - the starter is a must regardless of the handling situation.

I also mail order my liquid yeast. My advice is to be smart about where and when you are ordering. One issue is freshness (or turnover), the other is transit time. I order from an online shop that I can get Fedex ground shipments from in 2 days. I always order on a Monday, and I make sure to include ice packs with the order. The ice pack is not frozen when I get the package, but the bags and yeast are still cool.

Joe
Click to expand...

This.

Order from a source that will ensure home delivery within 2 days and get an ice pack. I've found anything over 2 days in the summer, even with an ice pack, will be warm upon arrival.

It took me some searching, but I found an East Coast supplier that gets it to my door within 2 days ground shipping.

I did have an issue with sluggish yeast on one occassion. I always make starters, but the starter took a while to get going and once pitched the fermentation seemed rather sluggish as well. The yeast was only a couple months old but just not the performance I've seen with that strain in the past.

Could have just been the vial itself, every fermentation is different, but lately I've been taking the 40min. drive to the LHBS to be on the safe side. He orders me whatever I want if he doesn't have it.
 
I just fed the fishes with a Stella Artois clone kit that came from a location in the South. It came with White Labs yeast in a cold pack. Brewed it 3 days ago. Pitched the yeast directly at about 76°. After 24 hrs.: No activity. Stirred vigorously with my paddle. Yesterday: Still no activity. Decided to start some harvested Saflager S23 last night. This morning (3 days after brewing), I checked on it and it had little white fuzzy things floating on the surface and a sour smell. Checked the gravity -- no change from 3 days ago. Taste: Nasty. No sense wasting the S23 on that batch.

Lessons learned: 1) Consider dry yeast when ordering on line in the summer time; 2) Always use a starter to verify the viability of the yeast and ensure a large quantity of cells for a quick start.

BTW, I agree that yeast can withstand normal warm summer temperatures. Unfortunately, when it is sitting in a box inside a UPS truck, it is more likely experiencing HOT temperatures that can kill most if not all the cells. If you only have a few cells going into 5 gal. you are headed for trouble.
 
I just got my first infection in about 20 brews. I used a WLP 500 vial delivered in May (which wasn't summer, but was still quite hot out here.) I ordered two ice packs with it, but the ice packs were no longer cold by the time I got it. The yeast activity was much lower than usual. I don't think I'll be ordering yeast in the summer anymore.
 
DevilDog2000 said:
I just fed the fishes with a Stella Artois clone kit that came from a location in the South. It came with White Labs yeast in a cold pack. Brewed it 3 days ago. Pitched the yeast directly at about 76°. After 24 hrs.: No activity. Stirred vigorously with my paddle. Yesterday: Still no activity. Decided to start some harvested Saflager S23 last night. This morning (3 days after brewing), I checked on it and it had little white fuzzy things floating on the surface and a sour smell. Checked the gravity -- no change from 3 days ago. Taste: Nasty. No sense wasting the S23 on that batch.

Lessons learned: 1) Consider dry yeast when ordering on line in the summer time; 2) Always use a starter to verify the viability of the yeast and ensure a large quantity of cells for a quick start.

BTW, I agree that yeast can withstand normal warm summer temperatures. Unfortunately, when it is sitting in a box inside a UPS truck, it is more likely experiencing HOT temperatures that can kill most if not all the cells. If you only have a few cells going into 5 gal. you are headed for trouble.
Click to expand...

Ah, Gotchya! I still think they should survive, but I am not as confident that they would :)

Starter start starter with liquid yeast! especially after ordering it in the mail or you have any other worries. I wash all my yeast so it helps keep a fridge full or varieties in even as small as half pint jars. Just stepped a 1/2 pint jar up to over 2 liters so I can use half of it in a batch of beer and half of it in a sourdough experiment :)
 
The thought dawned on me yesterday that the yeast I ordered over the weekend is going to be following the heat wave east and despite two ice packs each it's probably not going to be enough. Already planning on calling the two different packs a loss and swinging by the LHBS for new packs before I brew, but I figure making starters with them before I do that couldn't hurt.
 
As far as ice packs go, take a frozen ice pack and put it in a small cooler(which is probably insulated better than the box your yeast comes in) then set it out side and check on it in a day and see how frozen it is.
 
A month ago I ordered 2 vials of white labs yeast. WLP013 and 001 along with a cold pack. When I opened the box the cold pack was hot and the WLP001 vial had half spewed out of the vial.

Made a starter with both. They both took about 24 hours longer than normal to form kreusen, but they were both fine and both fermented their corresponding batches of beer quite well.

I've decided to stick with wyeast packs during the summer from here on out, though. Even if the packs come pre-swelled, I don't care coz i'm just going to make starters out of them all regardless.
 
Either use dry or during the not so hot months use Liquid and wash the yeast when done. Save for the summer.
 
samc said:
Either use dry or during the not so hot months use Liquid and wash the yeast when done. Save for the summer.
Click to expand...

I am pretty new to homebrewing, so this wouldn't have occurred to me this year, but will definitely pursue for next year. Already have cultures of WLP001, Wyeast 1056, Wyeast 3333, and Wyeast 2565 in the fridge. I will continue to build my collection to ensure I have viable yeast and to save a few bucks.

BTW - my lager yeast finally woke up and started doing something in my starter when I checked it this morning. I should be good to go for next Saturday.

Thanks to all for feedback.
 
Slobberchops said:
BTW - my lager yeast finally woke up and started doing something in my starter when I checked it this morning. I should be good to go for next Saturday.
Click to expand...
They always do that right after you post that they're not doing anything. I have a keg that's not carbing so I just posted about it...just to get it going.;)
 
thegerm said:
A month ago I ordered 2 vials of white labs yeast. WLP013 and 001 along with a cold pack. When I opened the box the cold pack was hot and the WLP001 vial had half spewed out of the vial.
Click to expand...

Um, spewing out of the vial happens with yeast in tubes all the time, regardless of whether or not it was shipped in the summer. What happens is that while in the tube the yeast is farting co2 and it fills up the space in there.
 
DevilDog2000 said:
I just fed the fishes with a Stella Artois clone kit that came from a location in the South. It came with White Labs yeast in a cold pack. Brewed it 3 days ago. Pitched the yeast directly at about 76°. After 24 hrs.: No activity. Stirred vigorously with my paddle. Yesterday: Still no activity. Decided to start some harvested Saflager S23 last night. This morning (3 days after brewing), I checked on it and it had little white fuzzy things floating on the surface and a sour smell. Checked the gravity -- no change from 3 days ago. Taste: Nasty. No sense wasting the S23 on that batch.
Click to expand...

Don't sample infected, unfermented wort - you can get food poisoning that way. It takes about 1% ABV and the pH to drop from wort levels to kill off the pathogenic nasties.
 
My Fat Tire clone kit with Wyeast American Ale II is scheduled to be delivered on Thursday. Temps are suppose to be 99 on Thursday. Looks like a good starter is in my future. I did order a back up of Danstar Notingham just in case the Wyeast crapped out cause of the heat. Does the heat have any effect on dry yeast??
 
Add another to the list of those who ordered liquid yeast in the hottest part of the summer.

I plan on making a starter way ahead of time. How long could I keep the starter in the fridge after it is ready? Would two weeks be too long?
 
54BelAir said:
Add another to the list of those who ordered liquid yeast in the hottest part of the summer.

I plan on making a starter way ahead of time. How long could I keep the starter in the fridge after it is ready? Would two weeks be too long?
Click to expand...
Two weeks will be fine. I just made a Roggenbier with Wyeast 3333 that had a 1 week old starter and it took off in ~4 hours.
 
I got 2 vials in today. I'm in SC and it is as hot as hell. My wife got the package from the Fedex guy and said the vials were still cool. I maintain that ordering yeast is just fine in the summer if you do the following:

1. Order from somewhere close. I get everything from Brewmaster's Warehouse in Atlanta. Even with cut-rate shipping it's 2 days max (I am guessing).

2. Have someone at home so the package doesn't sit in the sun until you get home from work (a good woman is hard to find--can't help you there).

3. Buy multiple packages of yeast and multiple ice packs at once. Thermal mass, people. I can justify the cost of gel packs because my LHBS sucks at such an epic level. Otherwise, buy local.

4. Brewmaster's Warehouse is awesome. If you are in the South and a member on this forum, get on their preferred customer list (di$count) and buy your stuff from them.
 
Revvy said:
Um, spewing out of the vial happens with yeast in tubes all the time, regardless of whether or not it was shipped in the summer. What happens is that while in the tube the yeast is farting co2 and it fills up the space in there.
Click to expand...

I certainly hope this doesn't happen all the time. Coz it's an awful waste.

IMG_0884.jpg
 
I live in Vegas and for a while had to get all my yeast via mail order and they were fine. As stated yeast are pretty resiliant but I always make a starter with liquid yeast no matter what.
 
Got my shipment today. The cold packs and the yeast were room temperature (but had already been sitting in the air conditioned package room of my apartment building for a few hours, who knows how hot they got beforehand), and the 1056 pack I ordered was already completely swollen. The 1028 pack was not. Both stamped early June. Question is, is it worth the time and effort to try and salvage them (could theoretically make massive stepped up starters a week a head of time), or should I just shell out for two new packs from the LHBS and make my normal starters a couple days in advance? First time I've mail ordered yeast. I normally pick it up from the LHBS and then straight into the fridge.

(That, and Northern Brewer forgot to put in my aeration stone despite charging for it. However, two minutes on the phone and one is in the mail. Hooray awesome customer service!)
 
Slobberchops said:
My last Northern Brewer order included 2 liquid yeast packages - one vial of White Labs and one smack-pack of Wyeast. I had some trouble with both.

I pitched the White Labs directly into the fermenter and itl never really got going. I ended up finding another vial at a LHBS and repitching with a better result.

With this experience in mind, I made a starter for the Wyeast smack-pack. And it took a long time to get going...about a week. And my fermentation ended up working out OK.

Because I am a slow learner (and because the yeast I wanted was unavailable locally), I included yeast in my next Northern Brewer order. I got a vial of WLP810. Since I am planning on brewing my first lager this weekend, and am planning on making my first 10 gallon batch, I knew I'd need a lot of yeast so I started making a starter this weekend for brewing next weekend. And so far I haven't gotten much action from my yeast. I mail-ordered because I couldn't get the yeast locally, but I've ask my nearest LHBS to order some for me.

Has anyone else had trouble with mail order liquid yeast this summer? I have been pretty happy with NB as a source for homebrew supplies, and they package yeast in an envelope with an icepack (and I get it in the fridge ASAP upon receipt), but I am not sure that is enough.
Click to expand...

I order from Midwest, i always order the extra shipping box that is foam lined, that the insulated shipping envelope to go inside the box with extra ice packs. Never had a problem.
 
Qhrumphf said:
Got my shipment today. The cold packs and the yeast were room temperature (but had already been sitting in the air conditioned package room of my apartment building for a few hours, who knows how hot they got beforehand), and the 1056 pack I ordered was already completely swollen. The 1028 pack was not. Both stamped early June. Question is, is it worth the time and effort to try and salvage them (could theoretically make massive stepped up starters a week a head of time), or should I just shell out for two new packs from the LHBS and make my normal starters a couple days in advance? First time I've mail ordered yeast. I normally pick it up from the LHBS and then straight into the fridge.

(That, and Northern Brewer forgot to put in my aeration stone despite charging for it. However, two minutes on the phone and one is in the mail. Hooray awesome customer service!)
Click to expand...

I'd try making a starter and stepping it up once or twice. If the starter isn't really active, then toss it.
 
Big thank you to thegerm or posting that pic, and Revvy for consolation that it happens to the best of us, year round. Yeah, me to-- ordered yeast in the summer by mail. MISTAKE. Won't do it again. I thought Morebeer still put cold packs in the boxes, but they didn't and the damn thing spewed all over me.
 
I've been ordering from Austin homebrew (Austin, TX) and I haven't had any problems. 3 or 4 day transit time. I use a stir plate with my starters though. I absolutely love the way they package stuff at that place plus you can order partial poundage grain (down to the ounce). Every box I've gotten is filled with packaging peanuts and everything is in nice neat air tight bags. Someone mentioned thermal mass. I wonder if the fact that my packages from them average 25 lbs has anything to do with it.
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
Makes you wonder how sanitary that bursted vial is too doesn't it?
Click to expand...

well the yeast that spewed out is unsanitary, but the yeast still in the vial would be fine(assuming it wasn't all dead from the heat), because of the obviously large positive pressure of the vial. just sanitize the vial as normal before opening (carefully) and pouring into start wort.
 
As I stated in another post ordered my whitelabs w/ ice from AHB and it came in 3 days hot. Let it cool in the frige for a few days and it spewed. 36hrs into a starter and nothing. Will be getting a replacement tube from them tommorow hope this one does better. The guy at AHB said it'd take several days at 100 degree temps before the yeast would die and all I would need is 1 yeast cell to be alive to make a starter?? Well sounds good but I prefer billions not 1. After reading the posts I will give it longer than 36hrs before I toss it ecspecially since my local store doesn't carry this style yeast, says its seasonal?? Don't know how I can get it wholesale if it's seasonal.
 
tangofoxtrot308 said:
As I stated in another post ordered my whitelabs w/ ice from AHB and it came in 3 days hot. Let it cool in the frige for a few days and it spewed. 36hrs into a starter and nothing. Will be getting a replacement tube from them tommorow hope this one does better. The guy at AHB said it'd take several days at 100 degree temps before the yeast would die and all I would need is 1 yeast cell to be alive to make a starter?? Well sounds good but I prefer billions not 1. After reading the posts I will give it longer than 36hrs before I toss it ecspecially since my local store doesn't carry this style yeast, says its seasonal?? Don't know how I can get it wholesale if it's seasonal.
Click to expand...

I've only ever ordered wyeast from anyone. Something about those vials has always rubbed me the wrong way. But good to know they're willing to replace anything apparently damaged in shipping
 
Just last week I ordered 20 packs of assorted dry yeast from Mid-West. Should be set for most of the year. Shipping was only $6 which makes bulk buying cheaper by far than getting it locally. I just kept adding packs till the shipping price went up from $6 to $10 and backed it down one. :)
 

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