Rodenbach Clone

Amount______________Item
5 lbs..........Vienna Malt.............................(3.5 SRM)
4.5 lbs.......Pilsner (2 Row) Bel....................(2.0 SRM)
3 lbs..........Munich Malt - 10L....................(10.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Aromatic Malt..........................(26.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Cara 45 (Caramunich) Malt.........(56.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Special B Malt.........................(180.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Wheat Malt, Bel........................(2.0 SRM)
1.00 oz......Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] (60 min) (16.0 IBU)
1 lb...........Malto Dextrine (optional)............in secondary

70% efficiency
Sacch rest at 154°F for 60min.

This is a Rodenbach Grand Cru inspired Flander's Red recipe based on Jamil Z's recipe and procedure. You can ferment to completion with the 1056, then add the sour blend, or for a more sour flavor add the 3763 with the 1056. Upon tasting during conditioning, a bigger sourness can be achieved by adding malto dextrine, too.

Additionally, I add a self-toasted oak dowel through a bung at the beginning of aging for a great oak cask flavor, but of course this is optional.

Which Rodenbach? I'm assuming Grand Cru?

Yup. My bad. (edited)

Was Jamil's recipe a Grand Cru? I didn't think it was supposed to be a clone, but it doesn't look like you've changed a whole lot other than a little more vienna, little less pils, and a pound of malto dextrine.

I've got that Flanders Red in secondary right now, so if it's a clone of Grand Cru, that'd be great.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Was Jamil's recipe a Grand Cru? I didn't think it was supposed to be a clone, but it doesn't look like you've changed a whole lot other than a little more vienna, little less pils, and a pound of malto dextrine.

I've got that Flanders Red in secondary right now, so if it's a clone of Grand Cru, that'd be great.

Click to expand...

Mine's aging too, and I'd be pleased as punch if it came out like RGC.

How far into secondary was the maltodextrine added? Did you add it because of lack of sour?

I added the MD after transfer to the secondary carboy (~10 days) because the primary fermentation took the "final" gravity down further than i had expected (~1.012). I was hoping for the WY1056 to finish it off around 1.020, then having the bugs work on it from there, but i neglected to factor in that i get crazy-high attenuation whenever i use 1056 (~85-90%). Starting at 1.012 i figured it the bugs weren't going to get it as sour as i like (i likes 'em REAL sour), so some knowledgeable sour folk (ryane & Michael) suggested the MD. As such, the FG has some wiggle room in there based on how well the bugs work on the MD, as well as what kind of attenuation you get from the 1056.

I just brewed this up recently and added the Roeselare blend (and about 1000mL of the previous batch) to the primary from the beginning, hoping for a BIG sour profile.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

Was Jamil's recipe a Grand Cru? I didn't think it was supposed to be a clone, but it doesn't look like you've changed a whole lot other than a little more vienna, little less pils, and a pound of malto dextrine.

Click to expand...

I didn't create the recipe as so much an exact clone, so i guess the term "clone" can't really be applied (hence the term "inspired"). I DID want to link it to Rodenbach, though (for search purposes), as what it produces is pretty comparable.

I know this is the first edition (and somewhat horrible line of books in the first place), but for what it's worth, THIS is pretty similar - resulting in the "Grand Cru".

This recipe looks like a whole lot of fun! I may have to try this.

I'm a big fan of always having something aging for a long period of time, while having it's predecessor available to drink, and this is a great recipe to do so. I welcome anyone's input/feedback on their iterations of this recipe - even if it takes 18 months.

Subscribed. I need to brew this.

I brewed my Flander's back in the beginning of October with this recipe...

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP001
Yeast Starter: Pitched onto WLP001 Cake
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: WY3763 pitched in with wort on WLP001 Cake
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: <1.011
IBU: 11
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 14 L
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 30 days at 70°F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 365 days at 65°F

Amount______________Item
3 lbs.......Belgian Pilsner Malt...................(2.0 SRM)
3 lbs.......Vienna Malt.............................(4.0 SRM)
2.5 lbs.....Munich Malt............................(10.0 SRM)
1.25 lbs....Flaked Maize..........................(0.5 SRM)
8.0 oz......Aromatic Malt.........................(20.0 SRM)
8.0 oz......Cara 45 (Caramunich) Malt........(50.0 SRM)
8.0 oz......Special B Malt.........................(140.0 SRM)
8.0 oz......Wheat Malt.............................(3.0 SRM)
0.75 oz....Goldings, East Kent [5.0 %] (90 min) (11.0 IBU)

75% efficiency
Sacch rest at 154°F for 60min.

For the Maize, I actually did a mini-mash at 142 to bring out more fermentable sugars and help dry the wort out, in order to keep it in line with the style guidelines.

The ferment is going amazing. Here is a picture of my pellicle (as best I can get in a dark room through a sweaty glass carboy.) Thick and disgusting, just the way we like it!



Pulled a sample about a week ago, gravity @ 1.012 and the color is the most magnificent ruby red I've ever seen when held to the light. Really excited to see how this turns out. Hoping to have it bottled and ready for Christmas.

Any updates on this one?

I may give this a shot this weekend. Have you tasted it recently?

Yeah, i really love the red color in this brew.

I brewed up another iteration of this in April, and this time around i left out the malto dextrine because i pitched on top of dregs from the previous batch, as i wanted a bigger sourness. Fermentation didn't start as quick as i would have liked, so i actually added another dose of 1056 and 3763 a few days after i pitched.

The pellicle is still pretty thick & solid. I sampled this current iteration couple months ago to get a sense of sourness, and adding the Roeselare blend from the beginning has gotten it AMAZINGLY sour - just how i like it. I haven't done a side-by-side comparison, as i wasn't shooting for a clone to begin with, but i love this beer so much regardless.

I'm going to be bottling mine soon, it was a year old last month. Here's a picture of the latest sample next to my straight lambic. It's still rocking a pellicle, and is impossibly sour--just the way I like it!

I am going to do this tomorrow (as long as my store has the yeast). I want it sour, so plan on adding the roselare at the beginning. Should I also add some maltidextrin at boil, or wait till secondary, or skip it and hope adding the yeast at the beginning works? Thanks.

I, personally would skip it for the boil. It can always be added in the secondary if you do some tastings and it isn't sour enough for your liking.

I got the recipe on the first page brewed last friday and decided to leave the maltodextrin out for now. I did pitch the Roselare at the same time as the S-05. Brewday went well, but I had an issue this morning...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/flanders-red-contamination-help-questions-279417/#post3463455

I am not really concerned about the flanders, just wondered about the other 2 beers.

cactusgarrett said:

Amount______________Item
5 lbs..........Vienna Malt.............................(3.5 SRM)
4.5 lbs.......Pilsner (2 Row) Bel....................(2.0 SRM)
3 lbs..........Munich Malt - 10L....................(10.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Aromatic Malt..........................(26.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Cara 45 (Caramunich) Malt.........(56.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Special B Malt.........................(180.0 SRM)
8.0 oz........Wheat Malt, Bel........................(2.0 SRM)
1.00 oz......Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] (60 min) (16.0 IBU)
1 lb...........Malto Dextrine (optional)............in secondary

70% efficiency
Sacch rest at 154°F for 60min.

This is a Rodenbach Grand Cru inspired Flander's Red recipe based on Jamil Z's recipe and procedure. You can ferment to completion with the 1056, then add the sour blend, or for a more sour flavor add the 3763 with the 1056. Upon tasting during conditioning, a bigger sourness can be achieved by adding malto dextrine, too.

Additionally, I add a self-toasted oak dowel through a bung at the beginning of aging for a great oak cask flavor, but of course this is optional.

Click to expand...

Hey, How did your brew turned out? Looking to brew a sour soon and searching for great feedback/recipe. Was it close to a Rodenbach? dryer? sweeter? more sour? thanks and cheers!

I think this is a very solid recipe, if one would allow some self back-patting. I likes 'em sour, so every subsequent time i've brewed this i pitch the sacc yeast along with the Roeselare blend (and no maltodextrine). Turns out pretty balanced, but if you like it SUPER sour, you could do Roe from the beginning AND add MD in the secondary. I've yet to do a side-by-side comparison, but the two are at least in the same ballpark. I don't blend, so i'll never get the same consistency as Rodenbach.

If i had to make a in-my-mind comparison, i'd say this recipe is not as sour and not as full/sweet, but in my mind, that makes it a much more drinkable brew (as in, i can have more than two or three in one sitting).

cactusgarrett said:

I think this is a very solid recipe, if one would allow some self back-patting. I likes 'em sour, so every subsequent time i've brewed this i pitch the sacc yeast along with the Roeselare blend (and no maltodextrine). Turns out pretty balanced, but if you like it SUPER sour, you could do Roe from the beginning AND add MD in the secondary. I've yet to do a side-by-side comparison, but the two are at least in the same ballpark. I don't blend, so i'll never get the same consistency as Rodenbach.

If i had to make a in-my-mind comparison, i'd say this recipe is not as sour and not as full/sweet, but in my mind, that makes it a much more drinkable brew (as in, i can have more than two or three in one sitting).

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. Was going to brew this recipe but my all grain brewing equipment got damaged in a fire and will have to wait 4 months I guess...

I brewed the recipe on the first page last weekend, and pitched Rosalere on it. How long did you guys leave this in the primary before racking to secondary?

I brewed it last October. Left in primary for 3-4 weeks, racked to secondary, then brewed another flanders and put it on the cake.

Glad you reminded me, i should go taste them this weekend, they were getting pretty good a few months ago.

Brewing this soon. Any updates from those who've been aging theirs?

hmm, i have put this in the back of my "closet" and forgotten about it. I will probably let this sit for another few weeks, then brew another and repitch.

Would there be anything "wrong" with pitching the Chico with the rosaelare together in the primary and leaving it longer in primary like 6 months before secondary ? The reason I ask is when brewing a lambic the Brett actually feeds off of the autolized yeast and is unnecessary to transfer for over a year and that's only to rack onto fruit etc. I'm not that familiar with the rosaelare blend though and don't wanna screw it up. Any input is appreciated and if I do need to transfer do enough bugs make it to secondary or should I pitch another smack pack of the rosaelare blend in secondary ?

Why use a straight sacc yeast, the roesalarie blend has a sacc year in it, it is a pitch and forget... well almost, I brewed saccs version (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f72/landers-fred-241728/) so 2 batches blended. I brewed in 12/11 and 3/12, blended 50/50 in 3 bottles to submit to a competition and got 2nd place. It is still young but that is promising. I will blend to taste after some more aging, the first batch is not all that sour, but the 2nd batch is a sour bomb.

I brewed a very similar recipe on Sept. 21 and racked to a secondary today. The gravity was 1.020. I was planning to add 16oz malto dextrin as I like my sour very tart, but since the gravity was still 1.020 I wasn't sure. I'll probably taste in another month or so and then decide if I'll add the other 8oz. Did any of you guys toss in wood chips or wood cubes. I was planning to toss in some cubes but wasn't sure when to add them?

Oh, and now I"m enjoying a Rodenbach now. Pretty excited about this first sour and I only have about a year to wait. . .

hmmm, need to rack this to a secondary. It's been in the primary for a month and a half now.

I brewed this about a month ago and still have it in primary. I am going to rack to seconday and pitch the roselare tomorrow.

I am thinking about adding the MD. Do I just boil for 15 minutes, cool and add to secondary?

Thanks,
Brobe

So i have a question here. I brewed this back in august, and pitched the rosalere directly into the primary (no 1056). I racked off the rosalere cake about a month and a half later. So, I have no pelecile at the moment. Should I ahve left it on the yeast? Should I repitch what I saved (tried to harvest the rosalere for future sours) into the secondary?

My water is horrible here in el paso. I usually use RO water and the primer in the brew science section and or brunwater online tool. Any advice on the proper water profile for this.beer?

Sorry for the delay - i've brewed this two ways: pitching 1056 first, THEN the Roeselare, as well as both from the beginning. You definitely get a more complex, round, sourness from pitching everything at once. Some people aren't into that, though. However, if you're looking for a Rodenback-inspired beer, you probably are.

The reason i used MD initially, was because pitching 1056 had it finishing lower than i wanted, and there wasn't much left for the Roe blend to work on. That's my hypothesis as to why it doesn't get sour enough. For the MD, you just have to dissolve and boil long enough to sanitize.

As far as water, i typically shoot for a Belgian profile (fairly soft).

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on this.

My brew club has a 55 gallon oak barrel. We were planning on doing a sour in it and I agreed to host the barrel in my basement brewery. My concern is that the Roselare will basically infect the whole brewery. I'll have like 10 five gallon batches being put in there and taken out. Seems like lots of bugs will get airborne during that. Not to mention, Oak barrels breathe.

I love sours, but I'd like to make other beers as well. Am I being paranoid about infecting the whole place? It's a pretty small space, so the barrel will be like 10 feet from grain mill and all my other brew equipment.

Cheers.

Dgonza9 said:

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on this.

My brew club has a 55 gallon oak barrel. We were planning on doing a sour in it and I agreed to host the barrel in my basement brewery. My concern is that the Roselare will basically infect the whole brewery. I'll have like 10 five gallon batches being put in there and taken out. Seems like lots of bugs will get airborne during that. Not to mention, Oak barrels breathe.

I love sours, but I'd like to make other beers as well. Am I being paranoid about infecting the whole place? It's a pretty small space, so the barrel will be like 10 feet from grain mill and all my other brew equipment.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Just be extra careful about sanitization and use seperates racking canes etc.... If possible ferment your clean beers in a seperate room though that may be over kill. I'd say you'll be fine.

Dgonza9 said:

I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on this.

My brew club has a 55 gallon oak barrel. We were planning on doing a sour in it and I agreed to host the barrel in my basement brewery. My concern is that the Roselare will basically infect the whole brewery. I'll have like 10 five gallon batches being put in there and taken out. Seems like lots of bugs will get airborne during that. Not to mention, Oak barrels breathe.

I love sours, but I'd like to make other beers as well. Am I being paranoid about infecting the whole place? It's a pretty small space, so the barrel will be like 10 feet from grain mill and all my other brew equipment.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

for the past 2 years i've been brewing sour and clean beer using the same fermentors, siphons, the whole deal and have yet to have an unintentional sour beer. the reason i did this is not because i want to be a contrarian, i was genuinely curious about the question of cross contamination. most of what i read about sour bugs warned about bugs hiding in scratches, segregating equipment and the general invincibility of souring organisms. so far i can say that for the home brewer following good sanitation practices the dangers are very manageable.

I'm getting some roselaire tomorrow and will be making this beer in the near future. Just curious as to how you bottle it...do you use regular 12 or 22oz bottles with caps? Do you use a boiled dextrose priming sugar/water mix before bottling like regular beer?

HopHoarder said:

I'm getting some roselaire tomorrow and will be making this beer in the near future. Just curious as to how you bottle it...do you use regular 12 or 22oz bottles with caps? Do you use a boiled dextrose priming sugar/water mix before bottling like regular beer?

Click to expand...

you can, i did and it worked fine. mine sat in the fermentor for almost a so i bottled with champagne yeast.