Adding Cocoa to an Oatmeal Stout?

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Pelikan

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I have an oatmeal stout that's on the verge of being bottled. I've just ordered ingredients for another stout, and I'll have some leftover goodies that I don't want to waste.

There's 4 oz of malto dextrine and 4oz of lactose. Adding them with the priming sugar shouldn't present a problem. But I also have an extra ounce of cocoa that I'm thinking about adding.

A chocolate oatmeal stout? The recipe has 1/2 pound each of black patent, British chocolate, and roasted barley, plus a pound of flaked oats, to give you an idea of the proportions already present.

Any thoughts?
 
I'm still on the fence with this one. I could add the cocoa, but I might just make hot chocolate with it...
 
At this point I think you might be best served saving it for the next stout and adding it in the boil.
 
If I was adding it to the boil, I'd need to add a ton of it so that it would stay in suspension. Even then, I don't know that much would carry though. It's added with the priming sugar because the alcohol keeps it in suspension.

Either way, I'm not going to add it to the oatmeal stout. That one's already going to have a lot going on with the fairly heavy grain bill, plus the dash of malto and lactose.
 
Cocoa doesn't stay in suspension not matter what you do. If you add it to your bottles, you will have a thick layer of it mixed with your yeast.

I add mine at flame out and then get ready for the thickest layer of trub in the world.
 
I add mine at flame out and then get ready for the thickest layer of trub in the world.

I made a chocolate Oatmeal stout and it literally took me 30 min to get the trub out of my carboy. I had to stick a finger in the neck and continuously pull out the thickest crap you can imagine.

I would also add it at the end of the boil.
 
Cocoa doesn't stay in suspension not matter what you do. If you add it to your bottles, you will have a thick layer of it mixed with your yeast.

I add mine at flame out and then get ready for the thickest layer of trub in the world.

The alcohol keeps the cocoa in solution. A lot of recipes go waaaay overboard with cocoa, because you need to dump tons of it in if you add it pre-ferment, and hope that at least some of it remains in suspension after the ferment is complete, where it is then dissolved by the alcohol -- and subsequently put into solution.

I should note that solution and suspension are two very different things. Suspension, like the word suggests, is one substance suspended in another. Eventually, gravity overcomes the suspension, and the substance precipitates out (aka: the cocoa comes out of suspension and ends up in your trub). Solution, by contrast, is where the substance literally becomes a part of the liquid -- it is dissolved and incorporated.

This is why you can buy chocolate extract, for example, that doesn't have a layer of gunk at the bottom: it's 35% alcohol, and has a lot of cocoa dissolved into solution. This is also why Austin Homebrew recommends adding only one ounce of cocoa powder per five gallons, and only at bottling or kegging (see here).

I was talking to a brewer at Young's last week back and fourth, to get a fix on the DC stout recipe (and am actually surprised the guy gave me so much info). He said, in a nutshell, that they add only the tiniest amount of bar chocolate to the boil, just so they can say they did. The chocolate flavor comes from them adding a small amount of cocoa post-ferment, where it is then dissolved by the alcohol and placed in permanent solution.
 
The alcohol keeps the cocoa in solution. A lot of recipes go waaaay overboard with cocoa, because you need to dump tons of it in if you add it pre-ferment, and hope that at least some of it remains in suspension after the ferment is complete, where it is then dissolved by the alcohol -- and subsequently put into solution.

I should note that solution and suspension are two very different things. Suspension, like the word suggests, is one substance suspended in another. Eventually, gravity overcomes the suspension, and the substance precipitates out (aka: the cocoa comes out of suspension and ends up in your trub). Solution, by contrast, is where the substance literally becomes a part of the liquid -- it is dissolved and incorporated.

This is why you can buy chocolate extract, for example, that doesn't have a layer of gunk at the bottom: it's 35% alcohol, and has a lot of cocoa dissolved into solution. This is also why Austin Homebrew recommends adding only one ounce of cocoa powder per five gallons, and only at bottling or kegging (see here).

I was talking to a brewer at Young's last week back and fourth, to get a fix on the DC stout recipe (and am actually surprised the guy gave me so much info). He said, in a nutshell, that they add only the tiniest amount of bar chocolate to the boil, just so they can say they did. The chocolate flavor comes from them adding a small amount of cocoa post-ferment, where it is then dissolved by the alcohol and placed in permanent solution.

Interesting...not that I really plan on doing this, but would it be feasible to dissolve some cocoa in whiskey or rum and add it to the boil? I would imagine that would have the same effect as using a chocolate extract.
 
Interesting...not that I really plan on doing this, but would it be feasible to dissolve some cocoa in whiskey or rum and add it to the boil? I would imagine that would have the same effect as using a chocolate extract.

The problem with this, I believe, is that the shot of liquor/cocoa will be so diluted by the wort that it may go back into suspension, then precipitate. Also, the hot, boiling water will encourage the alcohol to evaporate almost immediately (alcohol boils at about 173*F), leaving behind the raw cocoa, which will inevitably precipitate. Of course, not 100% positive on that, but I'm fairly certain this is why all extracts (fruit, herb, etc...particularly alcohol-based) are added at bottling/kegging.

It's more or less as easy to add the cocoa at bottling as it is in the boil, at any rate. Just throw your oz into the boiling primer water. It will sterilize the cocoa, and put it into suspension. After mixing it with the fermented beer, it will dissolve into solution and you end up with a chocolate beer that has all the flavor, but far less of the astringent, nasty bitterness of recipes calling for 10, 20, even 30 oz of cocoa in the boil.
 
So what is the best way to get that real chocolate flavor? Like in Youngs or Brooklyn's Double chocolate? I just brewed a chocolate oatmeal stout that is fermenting right now. I added 4 oz of bakers chocolate at the very end of the boil...but now I sense that it may not come out with the chocolate taste I so desire. Should I add the chocolate to the priming sugar as aforementioned?
 
Never heard of adding just an ounce of cocoa at bottling. Seems like it would not be enough to contribute any flavor whatsoever. Even if it is in suspension/solution. I mean to make a decent 16oz cup of hot cocoa you need 1-2oz of cocoa. But for 5 gallons of liquid....Very counter intuitive.
 
The alcohol keeps the cocoa in solution.
Well...sorta. The alcohol will keep many of the aromatic compounds from the cocoa in solution (which is what you want), but the granular bits will still sink and fall to the bottom of the fermenter. You're going to contribute some muddy chocolate gunk to the trub layer no matter what.

EDIT:
Crap...just noticed that this thread has been revived from the dead. Hope the info is useful to someone!
 
Well i did post the last post about how to get the most chocolate taste into my oatmeal stout i have going..

Again i used 4 oz of bakers chocolate at boiling, but am afraid that i won't actually get much chocolate taste out of it...

I am still looking for first hand accounts of how individuals get a real chocolate taste to their brews...
 
Years ago I brewed a Mr. Beer Cherry Mocha Stout. I added 1.5 oz cocoa powder in the boil. It was the patch that got me hooked for good. The chocolate flavor could have been more pronounced without being a problem. I just added 3 oz of cocoa to Rocket Rod's Positive Porter.
 
Cacao nibs to the boil, I dont think anyone should add real chocolate or milk chocolate either.

wow revived again
 
So I just added 1 oz of cocoa powder to my boiling water/dextrose primer for a 3.5 gallon batch of oatmeal stout.. Racked beer from fermenter to bottling bucket, swirling in with my primer to mix. Bottled beer and kept a small sample of beer straight out of fermenter (from taking FG) and from end of bottling bucket (thus a sample with and without cocoa powder). The sample with the cocoa powder looked almost lighter brown and a bit chocolate-milky with some settling of powder/residue, while the pre-powder sample looks like a normal stout. The sample with powder also has a strong cocoa smell and taste.. Really didn't think 1oz would do this much!! I hope it turns out okay after some conditioning.. :(
 

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