Weldless 2" ferrules?

Is there a weldless option to add a 2" ferrule to a keg for an element without having to weld one on?

you could silver solder them. Im sure you could make a tool to dimple the hole but I have yet to see anyone post a specific parts list for it. Check out the soldering stainless steel sticky in the DIY forum

What's your thought on having a ferrule vs just threading the element directly into the keggle and using a nut with a washer to seal?

http://www.stilldragon.com/element-guard-kit-and-adapters.html
Covers up the connections nicely, looks good, at removes easy for cleaning. But a nut like you say would be easier and cheaper.

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_38&product_id=95

this would get your element in the keg. alternatively, you can get the 1" half coupling and solder it in (but that wouldn't let you use your TC setup).

personally i went weldless on all my stuff, then converted them all to silver solder because they are WAY more solid. i am now converting new kegs to bottom drain instead of using dip tubes and they will all be soldered with boxes on them like Kal does at the electric brewery.

I would just suck it up and find a welder, it is so worth it IMO. I wish those dragon parts were available when I did mine. I used the hillbillystills plate and had to further fabricate covers x4 which sucked but it's great being able to pop the elements out to clean or replace if you have to. WIth a TC cover you can plug the hole up easily too if you wanted to use the vessel for something else.

i've seen a ton of horror stories of guys who just 'found a welder' and ended up with garbage welds. get references of SANITARY WELDS if you go this route.

Ya I think TC is what I want but nervous on getting a welder. I have silver soldered stainless to copper before so maybe I'll go that route, just need to figure out how to do a perfect hole for it with a nice little flare to it.

there is a fantastic silver soldering thread. it reviews everything you need to make the hole and make the dimple. the only issue is your TC will need to go in from the outside, not the inside, so you'll need to dimple INTO the vessel not out like most do. i love my half coupling for my heating element. i had to make my element wiring cover but it wasn't a big deal.

slakwhere said:

i've seen a ton of horror stories of guys who just 'found a welder' and ended up with garbage welds. get references of SANITARY WELDS if you go this route.

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Why, hes not welding a fermenter. If its a boil kettle or hlt or mashtun there is no reason for sanitary welding. Plus the only real difference is using a backpurge and slight different technique. If you can't weld you can't weld... If you can just weld it, the heat from boiling will kill anything that might be hiding in the trashy weld.

ugly welds make me sad.

Me too I actually weld all the time and and people say I have really nice welds but I never tried stainless and not set up for it sadly.

yeah i have a mig welder in the garage and would never dare go at a keg. the silver solder method is pretty amazing. cut the hole, dimple, apply heat. tada.

I was just looking for the thread on soldering now

Attached are my test solders on some 1" ferrules into the keg lid. Pretty pleased with how it turned out, some things to improve on for the real thing, hard to level the lid so the solder pooled a little on one side.

I plan to do 1" ferrules for piping and 2" ferrules for the heaters, hope to get to them soon.

Looks awesome!

Well done! I'm going to try solder for sure, welders here seem to want about $40 a piece to put on anyway which will add up fast.

AllanMar said:

Attached are my test solders on some 1" ferrules into the keg lid. Pretty pleased with how it turned out, some things to improve on for the real thing, hard to level the lid so the solder pooled a little on one side.

I plan to do 1" ferrules for piping and 2" ferrules for the heaters, hope to get to them soon.

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did you ever try the 2" ferrules? If so can you post some specifics of your dimpling tool for them?

I braised on a 1.5" ferrule onto my keggle earlier this week so I could triclamp an element. My first shot at it, wasn't the best solder job but its watertight. I used stay-silv flux with safety-silv 56 solder. I used this fitting to dimple the keg (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003RWU1ES/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) altho when I bought it, it was only $10, not $30 as it is now.

so your dimple is to the outside yet the TC went from the outside inwards. how did you manage that? make the dimple slightly bigger and count on the solder to mechanically bind them instead of a press fit?

slakwhere said:

so your dimple is to the outside yet the TC went from the outside inwards. how did you manage that? make the dimple slightly bigger and count on the solder to mechanically bind them instead of a press fit?

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I made the dimple just large enough to fit the ferrule, and then used a rubber mallet to actually make it fit. It was very snug.

Yes, I finally got around to finishing the last two a few days ago (because I'm crazy and doing dual elements). I'm currently away for the holidays for the next few days but I can post some pics when Im back home.

I'm not sure how much my info will help as I had the tool custom machined (I have easy access to machinists, I can provide dwgs tho). I would have bought something but it was much more difficult to get anything shipped to Canada.

Few thoughts, I had it machined to exactly 2". This proved to be problematic (worked ok for the 1" ones though). I suspect since I used a smaller punch for the 2" there was a bigger dimple which likely flexed back in a little bit. As a result we had to fight (grind, hammer, etc) to get the fitting in place. A tight fit is pretty important so that the solder doesnt run out the other side. I would recommend pulling the hole slightly larger then using a cold chisel to beat the lip to tightly fit (this worked well) once the ferrule is in place. The other option is to dimple the holes inward so that you can pull the ferrules in using the tool (im not a fan of this way as it leaves some crevices on the inside).

I'm happy with how it turned out, but man it was frustrating trying to beat them into the smaller opening.



View attachment 2in Backing.PDF

View attachment 2in Swage.PDF

Have a similar situation. What size was the original hole? Using 2" ferrule and my largest punch is just shy of 1 3/4". Is that too much of a stretch (pun intended), or am I better off with 2" hole saw?

Dale

1 3/4" is what I used, the larger punch I had was too close (~1.95" iish). The larger dimple gave me some grief for inserting but it didn't have any trouble dimpling.

You wouldn't want a 2" hole saw as you need the hole smaller then 2" to dimple it. If you've got the punch already I'd use it, but you may need to dimple the hole larger so you don't run in to the probs I did.

EDIT: 1 1/4" Conduit punch to be exact (1.734" OD). A 1 1/2" Conduit punch is 1.984", which doesnt leave anything to dimple

Just the details I was looking for. My punch is 1 1/4" conduit, so that should work fine - if the dimple tool is a tad oversize to account for the metal springing back.
Still not sure if I need to dimple until I get with my buddy that is doing the welding. He may prefer to radius the ferrule and butt weld, but good to know my punch will work if necessary.

Thanks

MrNatural said:

Just the details I was looking for. My punch is 1 1/4" conduit, so that should work fine - if the dimple tool is a tad oversize to account for the metal springing back.
Still not sure if I need to dimple until I get with my buddy that is doing the welding. He may prefer to radius the ferrule and butt weld, but good to know my punch will work if necessary.

Thanks

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If he's done sanitary welding in a professional capacity, he'll probably radius the ferrule and butt-weld. That's pretty much every sanitary weld I've seen at work where the connection is curved (tank wall, sanitary tubing tee, etc.) The dimple method is just a clever workaround to allow those of us without a welder to be able to get a reasonably sanitary connection with silver brazing or solder.

bdjohns1 said:

If he's done sanitary welding in a professional capacity, he'll probably radius the ferrule and butt-weld. That's pretty much every sanitary weld I've seen at work where the connection is curved (tank wall, sanitary tubing tee, etc.) The dimple method is just a clever workaround to allow those of us without a welder to be able to get a reasonably sanitary connection with silver brazing or solder.

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Not sure that he's done sanitary professionally, he's actually a machinist, but has all the gear/gas and is super anal. Last time I was by his shop, he was showing me some welding on titanium - two different types!

A guy I know that IS a welder probably won't touch SS, not exotic enough. He travels around building power plants and such. Plus, he's a dick and starts acting like he is Elvis if you talk welding with him. And, he wants actual money, WTF?

A well-turned dimple sure is sexy though