Anyone brewed a beer only using FWH and Whirpool additions?

Im going to give it a whirl on one of my next IPA's and was curious if anyone has tried this.

While I've never done it I'll be curious to see how it goes for you. I'd be really interested to know what kind of beer you get out of it. There are a couple of pros who do something like that so I figure there must be something to it, right?

I believe Stone adds all their flavor and aroma hops in the whirlpool. I think they add hops at 90 though, not FWH.

This is covered in Brewing Better Beer by Gordon Strong. So, I'd venture to guess that he does it.

I do a FWH, 20 min and FO addition on my APA. It's plenty bitter, if that's what you're worried about.

I'm not worried about anything . Just prompting conversation as I plan my next brew, instead of working. Im thinking of making this a 1.045ish OG "session-able IPA" with citra/simcoe. Actually Im thinking some Nelson Savin too, since I went a little overboard purchasing them, especially for the dry hop.

Here is what I am thinking

8 lbs 2 row
8 oz Crystal 40
8 oz Carafoam
4 oz melanoidin
8 oz corn sugar(add during boil)

mash 153 60 min

FWH 1 oz each Citra and Simcoe

Aroma Steep, 1 oz each Citra, Simcoe, Nelson Sauvin

WLP002

Dry Hop, 10 days 1 oz each Nelson, Citra, Simcoe


est OG 1.046
Est FG 1. 011

IBU 66.8(i dont like the way beersmith calculates FWH IBUs)


Should I decrease the amount of simcoe(especially with the steep and dry hop) so it doesnt take over?

I love simcoe, and while I like it full on I have found I love it as a supporting cast member.

Any other changes you would recommend?

Nelson will probably dominate more than the Simcoe - i've brewed an ipa with those 3 before, 1oz each at 20min and 1oz each at flameout and dryhop in keg - delicious but the Nelson is still the most noticeable

I would replace the corn sugar with enough base malt to cover the lost gravity points. I only use a simple sugar like that in a really big beer that I want to dry out more. With a starting gravity that low, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get the beer down to 1.011 with all malt. It might not make a huge flavor difference, but I like my beers to be malty with a fair bit of body to them. I'm by no means an expert, though. You should brew how you want.

Honestly, I think that a 1 oz. of both of those hops for FWH is going to be entirely way too bitter for a Pale Ale. Depending on AA%, of course.

My house pale ale is still a work in progress, but where I have it now, it is WAY too bitter for an APA. Here's my general recipe:

8# 2-row
3# Munich
1/2# C80
--------
0.25 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - FWH
0.50 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - 20 minutes
1.00 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - 5 minutes
--------
OG: 1.053
FG: 1.011

I can't find a consensus on how to calculate FWH IBUs, but using 90 minutes boil that brings me to ~60 IBUs. And drinking it yesterday, I need to tone it down a notch - not balanced, very bitter. I may just remove the 20 minute addition for my next go around.

I did a partial mash pale ale with Fwh, 20, 10, flameout. Each 1 oz total (4 oz for the whole batch). Best hop flavor I have ever gotten. Even got 1st place overall at a homebrew competition.

AmandaK said:

Honestly, I think that a 1 oz. of both of those hops for FWH is going to be entirely way too bitter for a Pale Ale. Depending on AA%, of course.

My house pale ale is still a work in progress, but where I have it now, it is WAY too bitter for an APA. Here's my general recipe:

8# 2-row
3# Munich
1/2# C80
--------
0.25 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - FWH
0.50 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - 20 minutes
1.00 oz (each) Galaxy @ 12.8% and Centennial @ 8.7% - 5 minutes
--------
OG: 1.053
FG: 1.011

I can't find a consensus on how to calculate FWH IBUs, but using 90 minutes boil that brings me to ~60 IBUs. And drinking it yesterday, I need to tone it down a notch - not balanced, very bitter. I may just remove the 20 minute addition for my next go around.

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You are correct, I have been thinking and Im scaling it back. My girlfriend and I are serious hopheads, but this beer probably wont have the body to back it up. Most of the beers I make are have a bigger OG.

6 gallon batch, 60 min boil, 75% efficiency

I'm now at

9 lbs 2 row
8 oz carafoam
8 oz crystal 40

FWH
.4 oz simcoe
.4 oz citra
.2 oz nelson

Aroma Steep
1 oz simcoe
1 oz citra
.5 nelson

dry hop
1 oz citra
1 oz simcoe
.5 nelson

that puts me at 1.045 and 44 IBUs

I dropped the corn sugar and melanoidin. I'm looking for a clean malt profile and explosive hop aroma and flavor.

I may use wlp007 instead of wlp002. I have stocks of both.

With a BU:GU ratio of ~1.0, that will be pretty dang bitter, but I'm not gonna argue with a hop head!

The recipe I posted above has a BU:GU ratio of 1.17... and it's not very pleasant to drink. Don't get me wrong, I love me some hops, but there's a point where it's too much and not much a "quaffer", if you will. I have two taps in my living room and only like to keep very pleasing, low alcohol session beers in it. At BU:GU of 1.17, it's just too much for more than two pints.

That being said, I think I'm going to back it down to a 0.74 BU:GU ratio. And forego the FWH since I can't reliably calculate the IBUs... so here's my latest plan:
0.50 oz Centennial - 8.7% - 60
0.25 oz Centennial - 8.7% - 20
0.50 oz Galaxy - 12.8% - 20
1.00 oz Galaxy - Flame Out
1.00 oz Citra - Flame Out

OG: 1.053, IBU 39
Should be about 0.74 BU:GU... so hopefully it'll be a bit more sessionable.

If it was a normal bittering addition I would be more hesitant to move forward. My fascination with FWH is the different kind of bitterness it imparts. I have been brewing skeezers zombie dust clone which also has a 1 ratio. In fact i accidentally reversed the FWH and 15 min addition last time and it was prolly more like 1.2. It's delicious for my tastes.

Full steam ahead, can't wait for one of my carboys to empty(15 days). I'll report back in a couple months.

Xpertskir said:

It's delicious for my tastes. Full steam ahead, can't wait for one of my carboys to empty(15 days). I'll report back in a couple months.

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Wonderful!

terrapinj said:

Nelson will probably dominate more than the Simcoe - i've brewed an ipa with those 3 before, 1oz each at 20min and 1oz each at flameout and dryhop in keg - delicious but the Nelson is still the most noticeable

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Terrapinj, what is your process for dry hopping in the keg? I've seen people mentioning this and would like to try it out. Do you let your beer carb for 2 weeks and then throw a steel mesh tea ball full of pellet hops in there? Also, how long can you let the hops sit in the keg?

Sorry, not trying to hi-jack this thread. I've also been losing the aroma very quickly when kegging, only seems to survive for 1 week of carbonated beer in the keg.

I haven't tried it...yet, but from what I have read in my research.

Stainless steel tea ball filled with hops, tie dental floss to the end of the chain and tie it off outside the keg, so you can remove it easily.

Basically the timing of it relative to carbing depends on your carb method. For a 2 week method, why not add the hop ball for the last 5 days of carbing and 5 days of drinking...then pull it out.

dry hopping at lower temps extracts the aroma way slower than at room temp, so you need a longer exposure period and you can leave the hops in the beer for much longer without off flavors

i use hop socks from my LHBS and tie them off with twine (all sanitized) - I haven't tried tea balls but the issues i've read about are, limited space (usually 1oz or so), sometimes still dry in the middle if packed too tightly, and they can bust open spilling the hops inside

i normally place the bag inside the bottom of the keg, rack on top and then place in the keezer and carbonate like i normally would. usually takes at least 1-2weeks to notice much aroma. i've left them in there for 6 weeks before and never noticed any grassiness or off flavors

Whoa 6 weeks...didn't think about the slower absorption. Do you dry hop in addition to keg hopping?

terrapinj said:

i normally place the bag inside the bottom of the keg, rack on top and then place in the keezer and carbonate like i normally would. usually takes at least 1-2weeks to notice much aroma. i've left them in there for 6 weeks before and never noticed any grassiness or off flavors

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the latest IPA I entered into a BJCP comp scored a 44... It was sitting on the hops in the keg for ~ 2 months. The judges notes all raved about the massive aroma and flavor.

Great, thanks for all the replies guys. This is exactly what I was looking for. I think it will take about a month to polish off the keg so I wasn't sure if I'd have to take them out before the end but Jammin just answered that question for me. I might try the hop sock method as well because I did notice that the tea ball will only be able to hold 1 oz. or so. But I'll definitely be using some floss with it so I can fish it out if needed.

Xpertskir said:

Whoa 6 weeks...didn't think about the slower absorption. Do you dry hop in addition to keg hopping?

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I've done both before, 1 week at room temp with 1-2oz and then racked to keg on another 1-2oz. It was a great aroma but I can't honestly say if it made that much difference since I didn't keep any control samples

Sippin37 said:

Great, thanks for all the replies guys. This is exactly what I was looking for. I think it will take about a month to polish off the keg so I wasn't sure if I'd have to take them out before the end but Jammin just answered that question for me. I might try the hop sock method as well because I did notice that the tea ball will only be able to hold 1 oz. or so. But I'll definitely be using some floss with it so I can fish it out if needed.

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just make sure you leave enough length so that the bag can still sit on/near the bottom of the keg so its stays in contact with the beer - i think its unnecessary but can't hurt

Will do, thanks for looking out.

Are these all pellet hops or whole hops in the kegs?

I've done both pellet and whole. The only issue with whole hops is the amount of space they take up in a bag , don't want to overfill it

When I use pellets I put them in a mesh bag.

When I use leaf, I put a screen on my dip tube; picked it up at my LHBS.



I usually get better clarity with leaf.

I do small FWH and 60 minute additions with a huge whirlpool with 20min hop stand addition. I usually FWH with .5 oz total in a 5 gal

I'm considering doing 1oz Columbus FWH and then 2oz Centennial only 30-45min hopstand/whirlpool for an IPA with an OG of 1.072. I'll then dry hop it with 1oz Cent, 1oz Chinook. Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Hey OP, did you ever try this beer? If so, how did it turn out?

Nope. Other beers and a move got in the way. I did however make a ryepa with simcoe, nelson, and citra that was delicious. We just kicked the keg and my girlfriend informed me that it will be the first beer I brew once we move later this week.

Once I get set up, I will have a lot of brewing to do, and a session IPA is definitely in the cards, and I will be using a FWH and whirlpool, but perhaps some other additions as well. I will let you know.

Xpertskir said:

We just kicked the keg and my girlfriend informed me that it will be the first beer I brew once we move later this week.

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I like her!

I just got finished with a move as well, so I know how you feel. After reading IPA & Hops I really, really need to brew an IPA though. I think it'll get brewed here next brew day or the one after. I'm thinking FWH, whirlpool & keg hopping only.

From my recent reading 170-175 is the magic number for whirlpool additions.

Ive been reading your posts in the Lambic forum, because another priority once I get my pipeline caught up is to start a sour pipeline.

Xpertskir said:

From my recent reading 170-175 is the magic number for whirlpool additions.

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From what I understand, 180-185 is where isomerization occurs so lower than that will be ideal for only extracting the oils and not bitterness.

I did the FWH and whirlpool only IPA but I tossed the whirlpool hops as soon as I cut the heat so it sat above 200 for a while. It went from 212 to 180 in about 45 mins, then I started my IC.

For anyone interested, I brewed up a 15 gallon batch of IIPA using nothing but whirlpool hops, FWHs and (soon) dry hops. I'll be posting results there in a few weeks.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/iipa-zero-hops-boiled-kettle-hopping-technique-experiment-380011/