Starting a Yeast Bank

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bierzwinski

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I am to the point where i need/want to start a yeast bank. I've read several yeast propagation methods here, but haven't seen anything like what i am thinking of doing. The big worry is contamination. I've put new wort on cake from my primary and it worked fine, but it seems risky since i dont' have a way of knowing if the beer i just took off the primary is infected. (I'm on my 17th batch and have not had anything infected yet that i can tell - so i fear i am due.)

Anyhow, here is what i was thinking and I will appreciate any feedback i can get.

I have a package of Wyeast propagator. I was going to make a starter solution of dry malt boiled 30 min with some hops, put around 6oz of that into 6 bottles, pitch some of the Wyeast propagator into each bottle and put air locks on them and let them get going to the point where they ferment and settle and store them like that in the fridg.

Then, i figure that when i want to use the yeast in each one i will just poor off most of the beer, (and most likely drink it), swirl the rest and dump it into a new starter and let it get going and then pitch it into a new batch of 5gal of wort.

Concerns: I am worried i won't have enough yeast for the batch. I'm trying to avoid multiple steps.

I like the idea of washing yeast, but don't like the fact that i don't have a way of knowing if that washed yeast is infected until the brew it came from is ready to try.

I don't like the idea of slants bcs i am trying to avoid the multiple steps of getting the volume of yeast to where it needs to be to pitch into 5-6 gal.

Further - i figure i can keep my yeast bank growing by taking one of the propagated bottles and pouring that into 6 new bottles of new wort.

Any thoughts/suggestions???
:confused:
 
There are some good threads on here as well. The easiest way to get more out of your yeast is to look at the Yeast Washing Illustrated sticky. If you want to start getting even more out of it, check out the Guide to Making a Frozen Yeast Bank. Or if that's not for you due to not having a good enough freezer, check out slanting (sorry I have no links for those threads, but I know they're out there)

My suggestion is to start with washing, as that's the easiest of the steps and you'll be surprised at how much yeast you truly harvest. If that's not enough though, go for freezing or slanting. I went with freezing first, and now I'm realizing that I could have definitely gotten away with just washing. I do plan on purchasing one of each type of yeast per year that I use regularly, just to keep everything "fresh".

Hope it helps.

-Arch
 
+1 on Yeast Washing...great way to cleanse before repitching.

My frozen yeast bank contains upwards of 20 15mL vials of each yeast I've used so far (about five strains). The only down fall is creating step starters prior to pitching, so that takes more planning in advance for brew days...I struggle with this, however you may not.

If going frozen, it's suggested that one only uses yeast from a fresh vial/propogator/smackpack via a starter. Lessens possibility of contamination and ensures healthy yeast (not tired or worn out).

FWIW, I've frozen some WLP001 harvested from a primary with success. Just more risky.

Good luck and don't be deterred by the processes you research. Your wallet will thank you.
 
Hey Shaggyt - you kind of hit the nail on the head... it is the planning that i'm not much into and what i was trying to avoid...

I'm going to take a serious look at washing. seems to be the simplest for now.

Is the reason most people wash the yeast from the primary bcs there is more yeast?? seems like the yeast in the secondary would have less troub. Obviously, there is less yeast, but if it is a bit cleaner, that might make things easier.
 
The yeast in the primary is healthier (less stress) than the secondary.
Also, the yeast in secondary is less flocculant and it may take longer for your beer to clear if you keep harvesting from secondary.
 
Don't worry about the "cleanliness" of the yeast from the primary. Once you get the hang of washing it doesn't matter how much crap is in the bottom of the fermenter -- you'll end up with nice creamy yeast in your mason jars at the end of the process.
 
Ok. i understand. cool. I'm psyched to do my first wash. I have a german ale that is going to the secondary soon. It'll be my first try.

I'm still kind of stumped what to do with my bag of Wyeast American Ale Propagator 1056? I'd like to turn it into enough yeast to brew 5 or 10 times (or unlimited # of times), without doing slants. (I'd like to do that in the future after all i have read, but not yet.)

I'm still having a thought of making some starter CP style, putting 6oz in bottles, putting in "some"??? of the package of propagator in each bottle and letting it go. I worry that i am going to have a bit of a mess or not enough yeast produced and will need a very multi step starter which i was trying to avoid as i do not yet have a stir plate and the necessary breading equipment. Or, i guess i could just get lucky and get it just right... but i need some advice on how to get lucky with this.

Any thoughts on this?
 
Basically you should be able to get enough yeast to brew 5-10 batches from a wash. I'd just use it in a nice 1.040 gravity brew -- paying EXTRA attention to sanitation -- and wash it at the end into four 1-quart mason jars. After you've washed it, combine the yeast into one mason jar for easier storage. When you need to brew, take out about 1-2 Tbsp of yeast from the bottom of the jar and make a starter. So far it seems to work well for me.

I use my harvest date as the production date and use the mrmalty.com pitching rate calculator. I figure the vials from White Labs have about 15 ml (~1 Tbsp) of yeast in them. I've done a bunch of brews this way. It's easier than freezing or slanting.
 
I farm my yeast..currently have 6 strains on hand...I start with a wyeast smack pack(any quality liquid yeast will work)..smack it and make a starter with 80 ounces water 1.5 cups dme....let that ferment a week or so....pour that off into 6 or 7 (or how many you can fill) sanitized bottles....cap em and put them in fridge.........then a day before you're ready to brew make a starter with one of the bottles from the fridge,16 oz water and 1/2 cup dme...when you get to your last bottle of a specific strain repeat step 1...80 oz water 1.5 cups dme....this will be your 2nd generation of that strain..i've read that after 6 generations the yeast might mutate and not be of any use...I've been doing it this way for years...give it a try,you may like it....
 
blkandrust said:
I farm my yeast..currently have 6 strains on hand...I start with a wyeast smack pack(any quality liquid yeast will work)..smack it and make a starter with 80 ounces water 1.5 cups dme....let that ferment a week or so....pour that off into 6 or 7 (or how many you can fill) sanitized bottles....cap em and put them in fridge.........then a day before you're ready to brew make a starter with one of the bottles from the fridge,16 oz water and 1/2 cup dme...when you get to your last bottle of a specific strain repeat step 1...80 oz water 1.5 cups dme....this will be your 2nd generation of that strain..i've read that after 6 generations the yeast might mutate and not be of any use...I've been doing it this way for years...give it a try,you may like it....
Click to expand...

This is really weird, but last night I was sitting/drinking a'round thinking about this and what you described above is exactly what i was thinking. (In fact, I did something similar to this with a "propagator". I made a starter and divided it up into 4 24oz bottles and divided the propagator package btwn the bottles. I put an air lock on each one. I used one two days later when it was fermenting really well - put it in another batch of starter for 6 hours, then put it in my wort and it kicked off in about 6 hours with power. the others are stored in my fridg with the air locks on them. I think i like your idea of capping them though. seems safer for sanitary purposes.)

Ok, here are my questions:
(i think i know the answers to them, but it will be nice to confirm with a veteran of the process.)

1. When you pour your fermented starter into bottles, do you pour anything off or do you just swirl the whole thing and pour all contents into each bottle?
2. I assume you air lock your starter (not the starter for a batch of beer, but the one you use for farming purposes)??
3. when you use a capped bottle to make a starter, do you pour off anything? Or do you just pour in the entire contents? Obviously, you swirl it up?
4. When you put the 'bottle' of yeast into your starter - you let it sit out for a day? 4 hours? however long it takes to get to room temp? If you poured that right into your starter right out of the fridg, would that work? or would that shock/harm the yeast? (I took one of my stored bottles out of the fridg and plan to put it in a starter first thing tomorrow AM for a brew session tomorrow.)

I was really glad to get your post. Thanks for taking the time. I like the idea of washing, but it seems too... too something that I don't like. The worry of contamination seems very present. Having the bottles on hand like you do (and as i envisioned) somehow seems safer. And, actually, you could do the same thing with washed yeast as you have described to farm yeast. All one would have to do is wash one batch and then use the washed yeast according to your steps.

Very cool.

Cheers!!
 
mattwierz said:
This is really weird, but last night I was sitting/drinking a'round thinking about this and what you described above is exactly what i was thinking. (In fact, I did something similar to this with a "propagator". I made a starter and divided it up into 4 24oz bottles and divided the propagator package btwn the bottles. I put an air lock on each one. I used one two days later when it was fermenting really well - put it in another batch of starter for 6 hours, then put it in my wort and it kicked off in about 6 hours with power. the others are stored in my fridg with the air locks on them. I think i like your idea of capping them though. seems safer for sanitary purposes.)

Ok, here are my questions:
(i think i know the answers to them, but it will be nice to confirm with a veteran of the process.)

1. When you pour your fermented starter into bottles, do you pour anything off or do you just swirl the whole thing and pour all contents into each bottle?
2. I assume you air lock your starter (not the starter for a batch of beer, but the one you use for farming purposes)??
3. when you use a capped bottle to make a starter, do you pour off anything? Or do you just pour in the entire contents? Obviously, you swirl it up?
4. When you put the 'bottle' of yeast into your starter - you let it sit out for a day? 4 hours? however long it takes to get to room temp? If you poured that right into your starter right out of the fridg, would that work? or would that shock/harm the yeast? (I took one of my stored bottles out of the fridg and plan to put it in a starter first thing tomorrow AM for a brew session tomorrow.)

I was really glad to get your post. Thanks for taking the time. I like the idea of washing, but it seems too... too something that I don't like. The worry of contamination seems very present. Having the bottles on hand like you do (and as i envisioned) somehow seems safer. And, actually, you could do the same thing with washed yeast as you have described to farm yeast. All one would have to do is wash one batch and then use the washed yeast according to your steps.

Very cool.

Cheers!!
Click to expand...









Glad to hear that you are interested in farming as I do...
1-When puring my fermented starter into bottles,I swirl it all around and pour ALL of it into sanitized bottles..after a couple days the yeast will fall out of suspension and rest on the bottom.
2-Yes I do indeed use an airlock while the starter ferments..I let it go for at least a week...I like to make sure the yeast has fully done its job and produced as many cells as possible.
3-When using a capped bottle,I swirl it as you mentioned and pour the entire contents of the bottle into the cooled wort.
4-I try and let the bottle sit out for several hrs to get close to room temp...occasionally I will forget..when that happens i'll warm the bottle in my hands for a few and try to warm it somewhat...I wouldnt put it into starter directly out of fridge as it might shock it like you mentioned...

Yes you could totally do a washing and then continue with the afforementioned process...I may give that a try after my ipa is done ...Cheers bro...any more questions feel free to hit me up..:mug:
 
Very cool. Man i really appreciate this.

One other questions -

when you use your bottled and capped yeast, you put that in a starter first right? and let that get going and put it into your new batch?? That is what i did with my first try at this and it seems to work well. cuts the lag time to get the full batch going.

Hey Dude - thanks again. your method rings true with me. I might try to video/image document it for others.

later. good quotes btw
 
To me the whole point of washing yeast is avoiding starters. I use about 50ml yeast per 1.050 for 5 gallons, per Mr. Malty. No starter needed assuming you use it in a timely manner.
 
I was thinking about that too since starters add to overall cost due to the need for more dme.

so, when you do your wash, do you divide the washed yeast into four pint jars like the 'famous' yeast wash wiki on here suggests? Does his method produce enough yeast to avoid a starter?

Can you describe your method a little and how it allows you to avoid starters?
 
mattwierz said:
Very cool. Man i really appreciate this.

One other questions -

when you use your bottled and capped yeast, you put that in a starter first right? and let that get going and put it into your new batch?? That is what i did with my first try at this and it seems to work well. cuts the lag time to get the full batch going.

Hey Dude - thanks again. your method rings true with me. I might try to video/image document it for others.

later. good quotes btw
Click to expand...




Yes..I put one of my bottled/capped yeast bottles into a "starter" consisting of 16 oz water and 1/2 cup dme and a pinch of yeast nutrient...all cooled to 70f....let that ferment overnight then toss her into the fermenter...
 
I just collect two jars. That's the most I could need, because I make two beers per brew day and each carboy produces more yeast to harvest.

I basically follow the sticky post's advice. I leave enough beer in the carboy to get enough volume to allow good separation, swirl that up, let it sit for a few minutes until I can see the darker stuff settled out. Then pour that into a 2 liter container, swirl, settle, then pour that into a pint-sized canning jar filling the jar. Re-swirl the remainder of the 2 liter container, re-settle, and pour another pint jar full. Then the jars sit in the bottom of my keg-serving fridge for a week or two until I brew again. Each jar ends up with maybe 100 ml of yeast which is enough for just about any beer I'll make on my next brew day.
 
I finally did my first yeast wash last night and it was really easy. Easier than I thought it would be. I tasted the beer before i washed to make sure there were no off flavors and that i had confidence in the yeast. (I've only had one corrupted batch - which was my 17th batch - but since then i have been super leery of infection. Turned out it was my siphon tube.)

ksbrain, I don't think i have seen they yeast wash post you are talking about. the one i looked at, Dan poured sterile water into the carboy, swirled that, let it settle, and poured that into other containers, let that settle and then poured into the pint jars. That is what i ended up doing and I have about 3/8" of liquid yeast in the bottom of each pint jar. That seems like it might be enough so that i don't need to make a starter, which would be nice.
 
Yeah I skip the boil and cool water step in favor of just using the beer that's already in the carboy for my liquid.
 

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