Requesting a Double IPA recipe review

I have no experience with creating my own clone recipes. Great Lakes Brewing Company just released a Double IPA that I thought was awesome. Since it is so new and not widely available, I didn't find any recipes online. I don't need an exact clone, just getting something similar is perfectly fine.

The thing I liked about this beer, was that it had a lot of fruity flavor and aroma. Also, the beer was not really dry or bitter. Even my BMC drinking buddies loved this beer.

I was able to determine the malts, hops, IBUs and ABV from the brewer's website: http://www.greatlakesbrewing.com/uploads/Beer/2013 Beer Profile - Alchemy Hour.pdf

My original thought is to mash at 158 to try to avoid the dry taste. I am getting a significant amount of IBUs from later hop additions to get a lot of fruity flavor and aroma.

I was hoping to get some feedback to see if there are any significant flaws in my recipe. Please feel free to critique any aspect or make any suggestions. I will surely appreciate any help.

Alchemy Hour Double IPA

Style: Imperial IPA OG: 1.092
Type: All Grain FG: 1.021
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 9.30 %
Calories: 299 IBU's: 82.14
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 7.50 Gal
Color: 9.9 SRM Batch Size: 5.25 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.067 Boil Time: 60 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 7 days @ 68.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 72.0°F
Bottle/Keg 14 days @ 74.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
17.00 lbs 90.67 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
0.75 lbs 4.00 % Dingemans Cara 45 60 mins 1.032
0.50 lbs 2.67 % Honey Malt 60 mins 1.037
0.50 lbs 2.67 % Cara-Pils/Dextrine 60 mins 1.033

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.75 ozs 23.32 Mosaic 45 mins 12.00
1.00 ozs 25.51 Nugget 25 mins 13.00
1.25 ozs 15.36 Mosaic 10 mins 12.00
1.25 ozs 16.64 Nugget 10 mins 13.00
1.00 ozs 1.31 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.00 ozs Cascade 7 days 5.50
1.00 ozs Nugget 7 days 13.00

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg California Ale White Labs 0001

Mash Profile
Full Body Infusion In 45 min @ 158.0°F
Add 28.12 qt ( 1.50 qt/lb ) water @ 170.0°F

Overall I think the recipe looks good. I am by no way an expert but here is some of my thoughts.

I would ferment in primary for 14 days or 21 days. If you aren't Dry Hopping I don't see need to secondary but it is just my preference. I would also leave in the bottle for 21 days until before you open. Your taste buds will thank you.

Maybe think about doing a First Wort Hop addition along with a 60 minute addition. FWHing gives you smoother bitterness and is not as harsh.


I've never used Mosiac hops but they are a variety of the popular Citra hops. So I think you will be good there. I know next to nothing about Nugget.

I would still mash for 60 minutes. I do not think limiting it 15 minutes would make much difference but I may be wrong. I believe that the higher temp you mash the more body the beer will have which is what you are looking for. I am not sure if 158 is too high.

What sparging technique are you using?

I will be interested to see how this turns out. Keep us posted.

Great Lakes uses WY1028 (aka WLP013) for most of their beers, although WLP001 would probably be fine as well. 1028 would give you something a little fruitier and less dry. Using 1028 and a 156ish mash would probably allow you to omit the carapils, although there's not much potential harm in using it anyway. I would use Nugget as the bittering hop, because it's much cheaper and more readily available than Mosaic. They explicitly mention the use of Cascade for aroma and not flavor, so you might consider using it exclusively in the dry hop. Never having used Mosaic or tasted any Great Lakes beer, I'm not too much help otherwise.

histo320 said:

Overall I think the recipe looks good. I am by no way an expert but here is some of my thoughts.

I would ferment in primary for 14 days or 21 days. If you aren't Dry Hopping I don't see need to secondary but it is just my preference. I would also leave in the bottle for 21 days until before you open. Your taste buds will thank you.

Maybe think about doing a First Wort Hop addition along with a 60 minute addition. FWHing gives you smoother bitterness and is not as harsh.


I've never used Mosiac hops but they are a variety of the popular Citra hops. So I think you will be good there. I know next to nothing about Nugget.

I would still mash for 60 minutes. I do not think limiting it 15 minutes would make much difference but I may be wrong. I believe that the higher temp you mash the more body the beer will have which is what you are looking for. I am not sure if 158 is too high.

What sparging technique are you using?

I will be interested to see how this turns out. Keep us posted.

Click to expand...

The recipe didn't clearly indicate it, but I am dry hopping for 7 days with Cascade and Nugget. I will keg this. I mash in a cooler, mashout and usually do 2 batch sparges at 170 for 15 minutes.

I have never done a FWH, but I will try it. From looking it up, I read in Palmer's How to Brew that I should be using aroma hops and 30% of what I would be using for the aroma hops. So I plan on using Cascade.

Thanks for your response histo320. I will be taking your advice and mash for 60 minutes at 156.

I plan to brew this recipe next weekend or the weekend after that. When it's done I will share my thoughts on if it comes out as I intended. I'm still playing with the recipe, but I'll post it when I brew it.

kingwood-kid said:

Great Lakes uses WY1028 (aka WLP013) for most of their beers, although WLP001 would probably be fine as well. 1028 would give you something a little fruitier and less dry. Using 1028 and a 156ish mash would probably allow you to omit the carapils, although there's not much potential harm in using it anyway. I would use Nugget as the bittering hop, because it's much cheaper and more readily available than Mosaic. They explicitly mention the use of Cascade for aroma and not flavor, so you might consider using it exclusively in the dry hop. Never having used Mosaic or tasted any Great Lakes beer, I'm not too much help otherwise.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on the yeast. I was hoping to get some insight on that.

Jeremy_N said:

I have never done a FWH, but I will try it. From looking it up, I read in Palmer's How to Brew that I should be using aroma hops and 30% of what I would be using for the aroma hops. So I plan on using Cascade.

Click to expand...

You can use higher alpha acid hops for FWH as well. But Cascade should work just fine.

Recipe looks great.. I would do a 60 min mash as others have suggested.. I also wouldn't worry about a 60 minute or FWH (just my opinion) the FWH (smooth bittering) is debatable..

I LOVE late hopping and if anything I would bump up the 25 and or 10 minute additions just a tad.. I have a couple of recipes that I don't start adding additions until 20 minutes left in the boil..

Your ibu/og ratio is at around .90 I like my IIPA's above a 1 to 1 ratio myself..

http://www.madalchemist.com/chart_bitterness_ratio.html

Also wouldn't shoot for that high a mash temp.. I'd start at 154 and see how the recipe does and go from there..

Lastly.. your recipe shows 1 vial of yeast and you didn't mention a starter.. Make sure you check the date of your yeast for viability.. you'll need around 400 billion cells for a 1.092 beer assuming 6.25 gallons in the fermenter.. (dunno how much you'll boil off) That's 4 vials of yeast without a starter assuming fresh yeast!!!

Take great notes and keep at it

Cheers!

I would definitely omit the Carapils and mash lower. Their OG is 1.088 which means the final is 1.016. I wouldn't dry hop with Nugget, either, since Alchemy Hour isn't (uses it as a bittering hop) - I also suggest to up the BU:OG ratio. Use the cascade and mosaic at the end of the boil, with a hopstand, and for dry hopping.

PseudoChef said:

I would definitely omit the Carapils and mash lower. Their OG is 1.088 which means the final is 1.016. I wouldn't dry hop with Nugget, either, since Alchemy Hour isn't (uses it as a bittering hop) - I also suggest to up the BU:OG ratio. Use the cascade and mosaic at the end of the boil, with a hopstand, and for dry hopping.

Click to expand...

The beer is described as having a "balanced blend of Mosaic and Nugget." Although they later describe Nugget as a bittering hop, they also say it "provides floral, resiny aroma and flavor." From this, I conclude that Nugget is used late-boil. I may be wrong.

I have taken some advice and revised the recipe. Grain bill is set, already bought my specialty grains. Dropped the carapils.

I am brewing this Friday night or Saturday morning. Going to be making my first yeast starter! Still have some research on how much DME and water to use for this. I got a 2L pyrex flask and plenty of DME. Any suggestions?

I know the IBUs may not be where some of you may prefer for a double IPA, but Great Lakes says it is 80. So that is what I will shoot for. They also said Nugget is used for aroma, so I will add a late addition and dry hop.

Lowered the mash to 154.

The pre and post boil volumes are not random numbers. I seem to boil off a lot. Using a propane burner and a 15 gallon brew kettle. I try to make sure the boil is not excessively vigorous, just a small rolling boil. Any advice on why I seem to boil off more than a lot of you guys?

Great Lakes says OG 1.088 and ABV 9.4%. Is the yeast selection (attenuation) causing my variance? Any recommendation?

After secondary, should I keg it and put it in the keezer, keg and leave at room temperature, or just leave it in the secondary longer?

Sorry for all the noob questions, but I appreciate your help. Feel free to give suggestions or your opinions on the recipe revision or on any one of the numerous new questions. I still have a few days to tweak some stuff.

Thanks again for all your help so far.

GLBC Alchemy Hour DIPA

Style: Imperial IPA OG: 1.089
Type: All Grain FG: 1.022
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 8.78 %
Calories: 291 IBU's: 79.63
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 7.50 Gal
Color: 9.8 SRM Batch Size: 5.25 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.065 Boil Time: 60 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 14 days @ 68.0°F
Secondary 7 days @ 72.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
17.00 lbs 93.15 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
0.75 lbs 4.11 % Dingemans Cara 45 60 mins 1.032
0.50 lbs 2.74 % Honey Malt 60 mins 60 mins 1.037

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 18.33 Nugget 60 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 33.06 Mosaic 20 mins 12.70
1.75 ozs 23.09 Mosaic 10 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 3.15 Nugget 2 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 2.00 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.00 ozs Nugget 7 days(Dry) 13.00
1.50 ozs Cascade 7 days(Dry) 5.50

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg London Ale Wyeast Labs 1028 (w/ yeast starter)

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 each Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 154.0°F
Add 27.38 qt ( 1.50 qt/lb ) water @ 170.0°F (strike temp)
Batch Sparge @ 170.0 until 7.5 Gal of wort is collected

Jeremy_N said:

Great Lakes says OG 1.088 and ABV 9.4%. Is the yeast selection (attenuation) causing my variance? Any recommendation?

Click to expand...

Brewing software has a default apparent attenuation for each yeast. I don't believe any software bases its AA on the grains used or on the mash temp, but it would be a wild guess if it did. I generally get better attenuation than what the computer suggests, so I've learned to adjust the number on the software when I formulate the recipe. You'll be aiming for around 82% AA here, which is pretty high, so I'd mash at 150-152. Obviously, you don't have to hit all the numbers to have great beer.

Jeremy_N said:

I have taken some advice and revised the recipe. Grain bill is set, already bought my specialty grains. Dropped the carapils.

I am brewing this Friday night or Saturday morning. Going to be making my first yeast starter! Still have some research on how much DME and water to use for this. I got a 2L pyrex flask and plenty of DME. Any suggestions?

I know the IBUs may not be where some of you may prefer for a double IPA, but Great Lakes says it is 80. So that is what I will shoot for. They also said Nugget is used for aroma, so I will add a late addition and dry hop.

Lowered the mash to 154.

The pre and post boil volumes are not random numbers. I seem to boil off a lot. Using a propane burner and a 15 gallon brew kettle. I try to make sure the boil is not excessively vigorous, just a small rolling boil. Any advice on why I seem to boil off more than a lot of you guys?

Great Lakes says OG 1.088 and ABV 9.4%. Is the yeast selection (attenuation) causing my variance? Any recommendation?

After secondary, should I keg it and put it in the keezer, keg and leave at room temperature, or just leave it in the secondary longer?

Sorry for all the noob questions, but I appreciate your help. Feel free to give suggestions or your opinions on the recipe revision or on any one of the numerous new questions. I still have a few days to tweak some stuff.

Thanks again for all your help so far.

GLBC Alchemy Hour DIPA

Style: Imperial IPA OG: 1.089
Type: All Grain FG: 1.022
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 8.78 %
Calories: 291 IBU's: 79.63
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 7.50 Gal
Color: 9.8 SRM Batch Size: 5.25 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.065 Boil Time: 60 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 14 days @ 68.0°F
Secondary 7 days @ 72.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
17.00 lbs 93.15 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
0.75 lbs 4.11 % Dingemans Cara 45 60 mins 1.032
0.50 lbs 2.74 % Honey Malt 60 mins 60 mins 1.037

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 18.33 Nugget 60 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 33.06 Mosaic 20 mins 12.70
1.75 ozs 23.09 Mosaic 10 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 3.15 Nugget 2 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 2.00 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.00 ozs Nugget 7 days(Dry) 13.00
1.50 ozs Cascade 7 days(Dry) 5.50

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg London Ale Wyeast Labs 1028 (w/ yeast starter)

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 each Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 154.0°F
Add 27.38 qt ( 1.50 qt/lb ) water @ 170.0°F (strike temp)
Batch Sparge @ 170.0 until 7.5 Gal of wort is collected

Click to expand...

If it was me, I'd drop the nugget dry hop and replace it with Mosaic, and change the 10 mins addition to nugget, nice easy switch. then you'll get your Nugget flavour, and a really good fruity, citrusy flavour and aroma from the dryhop of these great hops.

So essentially It'd go like this:
Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 18.33 Nugget 60 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 33.06 Mosaic 20 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 23.09 Nugget 10 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 3.15 Nugget 2 mins 13.00
2.00 ozs 2.00 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.50 ozs Mosaic 7 days(Dry) 13.00
2.00 ozs Cascade 7 days(Dry) 5.50

kingwood-kid said:

Obviously, you don't have to hit all the numbers to have great beer.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the encouragement. As I stated in the original post, not looking for perfect clone. A similar style sounds great to me. Taste is more important than ABV IMO.

crusader1612 said:

If it was me, I'd drop the nugget dry hop and replace it with Mosaic, and change the 10 mins addition to nugget, nice easy switch. then you'll get your Nugget flavour, and a really good fruity, citrusy flavour and aroma from the dryhop of these great hops.

So essentially It'd go like this:
Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 18.33 Nugget 60 mins 13.00
1.50 ozs 33.06 Mosaic 20 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 23.09 Nugget 10 mins 12.70
1.00 ozs 3.15 Nugget 2 mins 13.00
2.00 ozs 2.00 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.50 ozs Mosaic 7 days(Dry) 13.00
2.00 ozs Cascade 7 days(Dry) 5.50

Click to expand...

I was internally debating the Nugget dry hop. I'll contemplate the rest of your suggested changes as well. Thanks for your thoughts.

Jeremy_N said:

I was internally debating the Nugget dry hop. I'll contemplate the rest of your suggested changes as well. Thanks for your thoughts.

Click to expand...

No worries. The late nugget will give it that great flavour hope it goes well for you

Kegged, carbed and cold. Smells great, tastes great. Not a perfect clone but I am in the ballpark as I hoped. Thanks for your help HBT. A couple of others have messaged me about this. I will post the recipe I actually used and some more detailed thoughts when I can get MY iPad away from my 5 year old. Haha.

GLBC Alchemy Hour DIPA

Style: Imperial IPA OG: 1.089
Type: All Grain FG: 1.022
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 8.78 %
Calories: 291 IBU's: 80.21
Efficiency: 75 % Boil Size: 7.50 Gal
Color: 9.8 SRM Batch Size: 5.25 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.065 Boil Time: 90 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 14 days @ 68.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 68.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
17.00 lbs 93.15 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 60 mins 1.036
0.75 lbs 4.11 % Dingemans Cara 45 60 mins 1.032
0.50 lbs 2.74 % Honey Malt 60 mins 1.037

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 18.33 Nugget 60 mins 12.80
1.50 ozs 33.06 Mosaic 20 mins 12.70
0.70 ozs 5.47 Cascade 15 mins 5.50
1.50 ozs 19.79 Mosaic 10 mins 12.70
0.50 ozs 1.55 Nugget 2 mins 12.80
1.50 ozs 2.00 Cascade 2 mins 5.50
1.50 ozs Cascade 7 dry/days 5.50
1.00 ozs Mosaic 7 dry/days 12.70

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg London Ale Wyeast Labs 1028 (2L Starter)

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
1.00 each Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 154.0°F
Batch Sparge @ 170.0°F

Here is the recipe I ended up going with based on some of your feedback.

Tasting notes:
My LHBS does not sell anything they call Cara45. I think they gave me CaraMunich and they said that is the same thing. At the moment, I am too lazy to look up how similar they are, but I thought they were not exactly the same from searching the threads before. I used .75 lbs. There is a toasty flavor that is not dominant, but it is more than intended. For this recipe, I was just taking a guess at how Great Lakes did it since I did not come across any other recipes. I think I would drop the Cara45/CaraMunich down to a .5 lbs next time.

I couldn't be happier with the amount of honey malt I used. I think the balance is pretty close.

I think I could have added more to the dry hop. At least another total ounce, probably Mosaic. There is a lot of aroma as is, but so far it is not as "in your face" as Great Lakes Alchemy Hour.

Overall, I am happy with the result. I got a very similar beer, but when I do it again, those are some of the changes I will make.

The beer was not dry, as I had hoped.

I did not reach the intended FG of 1.016 this time. I did make a 2L starter, but no stir plate yet. I think I could also drop the mash temp to 150 or 152 and perhaps get better attenuation without too much risk with the 1028 yeast.

Anyway, thanks for all those that chimed in. And for those that were interested in attempting a recipe for the Alchemy Hour, I hope to have helped.

Next up, Kern River DIPA.

Jeremy_N, thanks for posting. I'm going to give this a try when the dog days of summer are over and the temperature cools down a bit.

I've seen homebrew shops sell CaraMunich I, CaraMunich II, and CaraMunich III (from Weyermann). Any sense of which they sold you? That could contribute to the unintentional flavors.

RMP said:

Jeremy_N, thanks for posting. I'm going to give this a try when the dog days of summer are over and the temperature cools down a bit.

I've seen homebrew shops sell CaraMunich I, CaraMunich II, and CaraMunich III (from Weyermann). Any sense of which they sold you? That could contribute to the unintentional flavors.

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They don't sell weyermann. This is what I used.
http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/cara-45-dingemans/4,8419.html

I have brewed this two other times since the first attempt. The second attempt I increased the honey malt to .75 and dropped the cara45 to .5. I thought it was better the first way. The third attempt has been in the primary for a week. I started controlling my fermentation temps now. First two attempts were probably about 74. Latest attempt was 66 during fermentation. I used a stir plate for the yeast starter this time. I am going to put that in the basement at 68 for the next two weeks, cold crash (haven't done that before) and keg it. My friends loved the first two attempts. Hoping the third batch will be even better.

I was able to get the mosaic last week, but they said they are running out. You might want to try to get it while you can if the supply is in fact becoming limited.

If you try it out, let me know how it goes.

I ordered up all of the hops I need to brew this, just in case Mosaic does, in fact, sell out in the near future.

I'm thinking about using 1056 for this. I know 1028 is more authentic to GLBC, but I already have 1056 on-hand and have had success using it in IPAs in the past.