Barleywine efficiency + IBU question

Hi, I'm about to attempt to make my first barleywine, I'm going to be out of the country for 6 months, and I want something nice to look forward to when I get back.

Is there a normal technique mashing/sparging a barleywine? My recipe has 17 lbs of grain for a 5 gallon batch. My strike water on that much would be 4.25 gallons! Then how do I sparge this? Seems like it would require massive volumes of water and really, really long boil times.

Also, it will be sitting in a glass secondary for 6 months. What will this do to the IBUs? I know hop flavors fade after a few months, so what kind of IBU should I shoot for in a beer that will have to wait that long to be drunk?

thanks

you really need some free brewing software to be asking questions like that bud.

google brewtarget...


but seriously, barleywines really aren't that different as far as brewing process is concerned.....the big difference between regular beers and high og beers like this is yeast pitch size and viability, coupled with a long aging period.

but yeah, get yourself brewtarget...its free and will answer all your questions about sparge volume etc.....and you can get away with 60 minute boil....the intended OG really doesn't decide how long your boil should be.....mainly your boil off rate and your pre-boil volume will determine how long you wish to boil for for a specific og.....hope that makes sense. IBUs will be affected....but using brewtarget and it will estimate for you. sheesh...im outties.

It sounds like you're on the right track. I've only brewed one barleywine; it had a total grain bill of 19.25 lbs and used a total of 11 gallons of water (strike plus 2 batch sparges). I had 8.5 gallons going into the boil kettle and boiled for 3 hours.

I mashed a little thinner than you, but next time I'll use 1.0 qt/lb for my strike water & increase my sparge water volume.

You could probably reduce your water & boil times a little, but I was very happy with the results of the 3 hour boil, so I wouldn't change that.

3 hours....WTF???? Why?

mcaple1 said:

3 hours....WTF???? Why?

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I agree. What purpose does this serve?

Uh...because that's what the recipe said to do?

But I believe the theory is that the long boil carmelizes (or probably more accurately "maillards") the sugars to contribute flavors. I followed a BYO recipe for a SN Bigfoot clone. It won a gold medal at a small comp. I can't say it's good because of the 3 hour boil, but I'm sure it didn't hurt.

Longer boils give you more boil off, so you can use more sparge water and get better efficiency. It helps for high og beers.

emetcalf said:

Longer boils give you more boil off, so you can use more sparge water and get better efficiency. It helps for high og beers.

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So the question is then, my brew system usually gets 70% eff. on a good day. I wish it were higher, but that's what I always seem to get. I usually do a simple infusion mash and double batch sparge. I have a 10 gal igloo cooler w/ false bottom and a keggle.

If I brew this massive beer just like any other, will I still get my 70%? If not, what other technique should I use?

Also, the recipe I am looking at now only has about 40 ibus, (1 oz nugget @ 60, 1 oz amarillo @ 20 and 1 oz EKG @ 15). Given that this beer will sit in secondary for 6 months, will that be enough or will the IBUs fade into insignificance? I've never aged a beer that long, so I don't know what will happen.

I would plan for a lower than normal mash efficiency. My target OG based on my normal efficiency was 1.097; my actual came in at 1.090.

As for IBU's, the BJCP guidelines for an American Barleywine (19C) is 50-120 IBU's. English Barleywine (19B) is 35-70 IBU. My recipe, using Rager, calculated at 254 IBU's , but I know IBU calculations aren't accurate after 70 or so.

It's funny b/c my best eff came from my RIS, but I am very consistent with my PA and IPA's.

and thanks for the tip on the 3 hour boil....I'm picking up what your putting down.

Okay I decided to up the IBUs to keep it in style and add a pound of grain to make up for lost efficiency. I went with (same as "Water into Barleywine" but w/o maple sugar and using S05:

Briess 2-Row Brewer's Malt
11 lbs, 0 oz
Weyermann Munich Type II
4 lbs, 0 oz
Briess Flaked Rye
2 lbs, 8 oz
Briess 2 Row Caramel 60
0 lbs, 8 oz
Briess 2 Row Caramel 80
0 lbs, 8 oz

Nugget Pellets
1 oz @ 60 mins
Columbus Pellets
1 oz @ 30 mins
Amarillo Pellets
1 oz @ 15 mins
Kent Goldings, UK Pellets
1 oz @ 5 mins (i have a spare oz of these so I figured why not)

61 IBUs.

2 packs S05 American Ale

Any final thoughts before I pull the trigger on this and place my order?

nah man....shoot for 80-90 IBU's....they will mellow, but 40 IBU right after primary wont be enough to stand up to a hefty barlywine grain bill.

The only advice I could offer that hasn't been said yet is to aerate the wort very well. I use 02 on all my beers now, but I first got it for doing the barleywine I brewed back in July. With the proper amount of yeast and good aeration, I've fermented 1.110 beers all the way within 5 or 6 days.

Yep, got a pure o2 system now. I can't believe I brewed so long without it! I'll aerate it a little bit longer though, thanks for the heads up.

Adding 1 more oz of nugget at 60 brings it up to 88 IBUs.... sound good?

sound like a plan to me

I ended up changing my hop schedule to:

Nugget Pellets
1.5 oz @ 60 mins
Centennial Pellets
.5 oz @ 30 mins
Columbus Pellets
1 oz @ 30 mins
Amarillo Pellets
1 oz @ 15 mins
Kent Goldings, UK Pellets
1 oz @ 15 mins
Centennial Pellets
.5 oz @ 15 mins

I changed my hop schedule. I think that although just adding another oz of nugget at 60 would be cheaper, I may as well do it right and get my IBUs from late additions.

No point in trying to save a few dollars in hops when you're going to be out of the country for 6 months and its a sort of a once-in-a-long-time kind of thing.

I know "critique my recipe" threads are generally annoying, but any feedback would be appreciated.

sorry bud...have to disagree with that one. if your just trying to get IBU's and nothing else, why on earth are you doing them late? my only conceivable explanation as to why would be you are doing what Jamil Z does by getting all of his IBU's from late addition hops.

For the record, I don't think Maillard reactors start to occur until ~300F. Possible if your extract gets stuck to the bottom of the pot, but not generally possible at a nice ever rolling boil.

oooaahh sheeaiiiaat..... i don't know enough to keep that discussion going. lololol

i guess if you want more caramel flavor in your barleywine without relying on maillard reaction, why not just add some more >C60?

mcaple1 said:

sorry bud...have to disagree with that one. if your just trying to get IBU's and nothing else, why on earth are you doing them late? my only conceivable explanation as to why would be you are doing what Jamil Z does by getting all of his IBU's from late addition hops.

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I admit, I have just always been told that beer tastes better when you get your IBUs from late additions. It's supposed to be "smoother", "less angular" (yes I really read that one). So, in the couple of years I've been brewing, I just accepted that as fact and always did it that way.

badmajon said:

I admit, I have just always been told that beer tastes better when you get your IBUs from late additions. It's supposed to be "smoother", "less angular" (yes I really read that one). So, in the couple of years I've been brewing, I just accepted that as fact and always did it that way.

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No no no.....don't get me wrong....that's how usually do all my brews. I hardly ever do 60 min additions anymore....usually a 30, 15, and then a boatload at 5 or flameout. My IPA's taste incredible when only hopped with my homegrown cascades using this method. I have a lot of trouble convincing people to use this method, as they swear by 60 min additions, and of course saving money. I I figure it adds 5 bucks more to my beer to add more late hops to get to my target IBU's, so I really couldn't care less. I'm just happy to know I have another guy in my corner.