possible control panel enclosure?

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A RIMS tube during the mash will likely not result in a hot SSR. The heavy lifting for the water heating is not happening, and the RIMS is just doing short sporadic bursts of heat to keep the temp maintained. In other words, the SSR is OFF way more than it is ON, so not much heating up of the SSR.

During big temp raises and while maintaining a boil, the SSR will be ON a lot more than during a temp-controlled mash, so that's when your heat will start building.
 
yes I had a 40amp rated sink installed. I was getting 190F on the heat sink fins - and my box was vented and it was cool out.

If you are going two smaller elements off two SSRs it might be a different story - mine is set up as 1 5500e 10 system. The HLT is the BK as well.

You had two elements and one SSR? Was the heatsink mounted on the inside or outside of the control panel? What do you have now?

I plan on using two 5500W elements (for the EHERMS) and one 2000W element (for the ERIMS), but only one element may be running at a time. Each element will have it's own SSR, and each SSR will have it's own externally-mounted heatsink. Do you think that'll be good enough, or should I install a ventilation system?
 
You had two elements and one SSR? Was the heatsink mounted on the inside or outside of the control panel? What do you have now?

I plan on using two 5500W elements (for the EHERMS) and one 2000W element (for the ERIMS), but only one element may be running at a time. Each element will have it's own SSR, and each SSR will have it's own externally-mounted heatsink. Do you think that'll be good enough, or should I install a ventilation system?

First I should say - I am not offering wiring advice - just my personal experience with my PID and SSR temps (ans some hand me down experience from Walker's failed SSR).

That said, I have one element in one pot - this pot services as the HLT and the BK.

The element is 240v x 5500W. I built my control box with two 240v outlets, both fed by 1 SSR. I switch the SSR to either outlet or to the OFF position. Right now I am only using one outlet.

The reason I have two outlets is that I plan on upgrading to an eherms down the road for the mash - right now I use the HLT to heat strike and sparge water, then use it at the end for the boil as well. i.e. my mash is direct fire propane after it gets strike water if it looses temp (usually does not over 1 hour).

Does that make sense?

I think that if you put the sinks outside they probably should be alright - but I don't understand:

1. why you would need two 5500w elements - how many gallons are you doing?
2. what size heat sinks you have - Are they the 40amp ones?

You could always put them outside the box and see what temp they get. It wouldn't hurt to have a fan blow across them, but the only significant heat generated in your box would be from the SSR's - so no need for internal ventilation if the SSR's sinks are outside the box.
 
For what it's worth,

I plan to heat my HLT water with only my RIMS tube because I am getting great results. Electric is cheaper than propane. I maintain my mash temp with the rims tube and the only time I turn my burners on is when I go to boil. I didn't design it this way (to heat the hlt with the rims tube) but I am getting such great results that it wouldn't make sense for me not to heat the HLT with the rims tube.

Wake up in the morning, kick the system on and walk back in the house until I hear my alarm go off telling my the HLT is ready. If I was in a hurry I would use some flame on the HLT.

Point is, I can heat a my strike water with only the rims tube and the ssr and heat sink don't even get warm and even in a ventless control box.
 
For what it's worth,

I plan to heat my HLT water with only my RIMS tube because I am getting great results. Electric is cheaper than propane. I maintain my mash temp with the rims tube and the only time I turn my burners on is when I go to boil. I didn't design it this way (to heat the hlt with the rims tube) but I am getting such great results that it wouldn't make sense for me not to heat the HLT with the rims tube.

Wake up in the morning, kick the system on and walk back in the house until I hear my alarm go off telling my the HLT is ready. If I was in a hurry I would use some flame on the HLT.

Point is, I can heat a my strike water with only the rims tube and the ssr and heat sink don't even get warm and even in a ventless control box.

Not saying any of your set up is bad - but for me the savings of electric was all about the boil. A 60 to 90 minute boil is what eats your propane. You would realize the most savings by getting yourself an electric boiling rig IMO.
 
First I should say - I am not offering wiring advice - just my personal experience with my PID and SSR temps (ans some hand me down experience from Walker's failed SSR).

That said, I have one element in one pot - this pot services as the HLT and the BK.

The element is 240v x 5500W. I built my control box with two 240v outlets, both fed by 1 SSR. I switch the SSR to either outlet or to the OFF position. Right now I am only using one outlet.

The reason I have two outlets is that I plan on upgrading to an eherms down the road for the mash - right now I use the HLT to heat strike and sparge water, then use it at the end for the boil as well. i.e. my mash is direct fire propane after it gets strike water if it looses temp (usually does not over 1 hour).

Does that make sense?

I think that if you put the sinks outside they probably should be alright - but I don't understand:

1. why you would need two 5500w elements - how many gallons are you doing?
2. what size heat sinks you have - Are they the 40amp ones?

You could always put them outside the box and see what temp they get. It wouldn't hurt to have a fan blow across them, but the only significant heat generated in your box would be from the SSR's - so no need for internal ventilation if the SSR's sinks are outside the box.

Yep, it makes sense.

I need two 5500W elements for my EHERMS... one for the HLT and one for the BK. I'm doing 11-12 gallon batches. I'm sure 4500W would be more than adequate, but I found the 5500W for cheap ($7 each).

I'm not sure exactly what size they are because I bought them used. From the pictures I've seen of 25A and 40A heatsinks, I would say that mine are closer to the 25A ones. I have two of them. They will be "glued" together side-by-side, so they will be acting together as one bigger heatsink. All three SSRs will be "glued" to the two heatsinks.

When you measured ~190F, was the heatsink mounted on the inside or the outside of the enclosure? Was it during the boil? You said your box was vented at the time of that measurement... was there a fan installed?
 
Yep, it makes sense.

I need two 5500W elements for my EHERMS... one for the HLT and one for the BK. I'm doing 11-12 gallon batches. I'm sure 4500W would be more than adequate, but I found the 5500W for cheap ($7 each).

I'm not sure exactly what size they are because I bought them used. From the pictures I've seen of 25A and 40A heatsinks, I would say that mine are closer to the 25A ones. I have two of them. They will be "glued" together side-by-side, so they will be acting together as one bigger heatsink. All three SSRs will be "glued" to the two heatsinks.

When you measured ~190F, was the heatsink mounted on the inside or the outside of the enclosure? Was it during the boil? You said your box was vented at the time of that measurement... was there a fan installed?

Gotacha on the three elements - I thought you were putting two elements in one pot - but you are going to have an element on each pot. I planon using my HLT for eherms during the mash (use HLT water through a copper "chiller" sort of).

Anyway - I measured the sink heat under boiling conditions on the element and with the control box top off and opened, exposing the SSR and sink to cool air. My sink is a 40 amp sink. 25amp might get quite toasty.

I later installed a fan and haven't gotten a number on the temps on the sink. I do know, I couldn't keep my fingers on the sink before (too hot). With the fan on, I can keep my fingers on the sink without discomfort.

Check out the photos here so you get an idea of how I put the fan on:
(post #371)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index38.html

You can sort of see the layout of where the heat sink is here:
(post #295)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index30.html

That wasn't the final wiring - but the SSR location stayed the same
 
Not saying any of your set up is bad - but for me the savings of electric was all about the boil. A 60 to 90 minute boil is what eats your propane. You would realize the most savings by getting yourself an electric boiling rig IMO.

Yeah, i understand that. I have no intensions of using the rims tube to heat my HLT but after testing I figured I could. It was designed to mostly use propane. Whenever I can, i will go to natural gas but I don't think I will ever add a heating element to my BK.
 
Gotacha on the three elements - I thought you were putting two elements in one pot - but you are going to have an element on each pot. I planon using my HLT for eherms during the mash (use HLT water through a copper "chiller" sort of).

Anyway - I measured the sink heat under boiling conditions on the element and with the control box top off and opened, exposing the SSR and sink to cool air. My sink is a 40 amp sink. 25amp might get quite toasty.

I later installed a fan and haven't gotten a number on the temps on the sink. I do know, I couldn't keep my fingers on the sink before (too hot). With the fan on, I can keep my fingers on the sink without discomfort.

Check out the photos here so you get an idea of how I put the fan on:
(post #371)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index38.html

You can sort of see the layout of where the heat sink is here:
(post #295)
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index30.html

That wasn't the final wiring - but the SSR location stayed the same

I will have a 5500W element in the HLT and a 5500W element in the BK for EHERMS capability, and I'll have a 2000W element (I call it the MLT element for simplicity) inside a RIMS tube for ERIMS capability.

If I do install a fan, I will also mount it externally as I do not have the room for it in my control panel. It will be the most congested control panel on this forum, guaranteed.
 
It will be the most congested control panel on this forum, guaranteed.

Haha - nice! The way I figure it is, if it fits, great. I was concerned about mine, but it all has a home and so I am happy.

I think once you juice it up you will know if your ventilation is enough. You may want to follow walker's example since his box most resembles yours. i.e. intake and outtake.
 
Anyone with heating element have them rust on you? Somehow I left some water in my rims tube for a couple days and it rusted at the base of it? I thought these were not suppose to rust. My element isn't stainless steel.
 
Anyone with heating element have them rust on you? Somehow I left some water in my rims tube for a couple days and it rusted at the base of it? I thought these were not suppose to rust. My element isn't stainless steel.

Most of them will rust because there isn't an anode present like there is in a water heater when they are used. to avoid it, NEVER leave them in water if the water isn't being heating. Keep them dry in between brewing.
 
Thank you sir. Will the stainless steel incolnoy ones even rust? I don't know if the base is stainless as well as the element itself.
 
Thank you sir. Will the stainless steel incolnoy ones even rust? I don't know if the base is stainless as well as the element itself.

I think you are right (base will rust). I seem to recall reading someone claiming their stainless element was rusting. Also the stainless finish is pretty wimpy from what I have heard.

That is all hearsay though - not personal experience
 
I think you are right (base will rust). I seem to recall reading someone claiming their stainless element was rusting. Also the stainless finish is pretty wimpy from what I have heard.

That is all hearsay though - not personal experience

I recall hearing that, as well.

pola, check out jkarp's posts in this thread. He provides a link to the copper elements. He says that they last much longer.
 
I know I'm resurrecting a two month old thread here, but its my thread and I'll do what I want!

P-J (and anyone else who has used the Auber project box):

Do you think I can fit both contactors, and an SSR in the Auber project box? Also, I have two L6-30, an L14-30, an XLR connector, and two regular 120v outlets for power and I/O to the panel.

Is this overload for that little box? It seems like it is, but I would really like to use it if possible. If its too big for an Auber box then I'm going to go with a din rail, terminal blocks, and breakers inside a regular enclosure.

How big of a box do I need for all that? If I go with a regular enclosure, I think I'll make a two tier stand and mount the box right underneath the higher tier.
 
I think it might fit but it would be very tight. The contactors take a chunk of space as well as the power outlets. I think you might be better off with a larger box.
 
P-J said:
I think it might fit but it would be very tight. The contactors take a chunk of space as well as the power outlets. I think you might be better off with a larger box.

I agree with P-J. It could work, but it would be a very tight squeeze. If you are doing 120v it would be a little easier.
 
I agree too. I have the auber box and I have 2 contactors, two 240 plugs and 1 120V plug and it is doable but tight:

rectangles are the contactors;
circles are the outlets;
rounded rectangle is the SSR;

I also had to add a fan to the side to cool the SSR (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electric-burners-any-builders-out-there-228720/index38.html). It works, but it is a bit crowded :) - easy to store away from the brewing though. If I could pick again I would have grabbed a bigger box (though I love how my fan blows in on the SSR and it vents out the back).

auber.jpg
 
Thanks, yeah I guess I'll get a bigger enclosure, which will allow for future expansion if I so choose, and much cleaner wiring.

I have a few more questions, and I will probably have more later.

I assume the LED lit switches and lights look better than the incandescent ones, but how much better? Is it worth the increase in price?

I am thinking about using a 5A breaker instead of a 10A for the pumps, any problems with that? I am also only going to have one pump, and I'm going to use the second 120v outlet as aux power. This way I wont be able to overload the total power available...

Are C curve breakers 'fast blow' enough?

Edit:

One more: should I put 25A breakers on the elements?

I think thats it for now, I'll probably have some more Q's later...
 
One thought: you can save some non-negligible space in the box by using clamped in pig-tail cords with female connectors on them instead of mounting female receptacles right in the box.
 
I asked a few questions that I kind of knew the answer to, but the one that I am legitimately curious about:

Should I put 25A breakers in front of the 30A contactors and 5500W elements?

If you are feeding this box from a 30A outlet, you don't need to put any breakers in to drop down to 25A.

If you are feeding from a 50A outlet, then the breakers are a good idea.
 
Thanks Walker.

One more, and its just for clarification:

For the terminal blocks mcmaster #7641K51 I need the end pieces #7641K33 on both ends. Also I need the jumper #7641K15 (10 pole) to go across the top of the terminal blocks to make all the blocks fed by one input. Also, I need one jumper for each set of terminal blocks ... or can I just cut it say, in half and use it on two?

That is a very cool console HHP!

Too bad I am too cheap to buy it ;)

Yeah, its double what a regular enclosure will cost from pioneer breaker, but at this point I am so far over budget I figured **** it.
 
Thanks Walker.

One more, and its just for clarification:

For the terminal blocks mcmaster #7641K51 I need the end pieces #7641K33 on both ends. Also I need the jumper #7641K15 (10 pole) to go across the top of the terminal blocks to make all the blocks fed by one input. Also, I need one jumper for each set of terminal blocks ... or can I just cut it say, in half and use it on two?

I didn't get my blocks and stuff from McMaster, but you can probably cut the jumper bar if it is a standard thing.

My stuff came from mouser.com, but I bought a 10-unit jumper bar and cut it into a bunch of 2-unit sections.
 
Thanks Walker.

One more, and its just for clarification:

For the terminal blocks mcmaster #7641K51 I need the end pieces #7641K33 on both ends. Also I need the jumper #7641K15 (10 pole) to go across the top of the terminal blocks to make all the blocks fed by one input. Also, I need one jumper for each set of terminal blocks ... or can I just cut it say, in half and use it on two?



Yeah, its double what a regular enclosure will cost from pioneer breaker, but at this point I am so far over budget I figured **** it.

Yeah but it looks ****ing cool. I would feel like Dr. Evil whenever I bellied up to that thing for a brew session - ha!

I think that every ebrew set up eventually goes grossly over budget... but man are they worth it on brew day when they perform flawlessly.
 
oh... looking at mcmaster, I would say you are fine cutting it.

They tag some of their jumpers as "insulated, cannot be cut to size" but others (like the one you are getting) do not get that note on them.
 
Again, thanks walker :)

Yeah but it looks ****ing cool. I would feel like Dr. Evil whenever I bellied up to that thing for a brew session - ha!

I think that every ebrew set up eventually goes grossly over budget... but man are they worth it on brew day when they perform flawlessly.

Yeah, after I saw Ohio-Ed's console I knew its what I really truly wanted, I just didnt like the price.

I'm going to go with the 8x8x7.09, I think it should fit everything, especially if I poke the heatsink out of the back.

I really am stoked about the console.
 
I'm thinking about adding a timer.

Is Auber's timer is similar to the 4x more expensive Omega timer?

Can I run more than one timer at once on the Auber timer?

I would like to be able to set several count downs, for all my hop additions, boil, etc so they are all counting at once.

If the Auber timer doesn't do this ... is there one that does?
 
Auber only runs one timer at a time. I think Omega is like this as well.

Yeah I emailed aubers support about this, and they said it was one at a time ... i tried to get them to recommend one that does what I want, but they wouldn't. I'm not sure one exists.


When I install my elements in my kettle I plan to solder or have welded a 1" NPS locknut on the outside of the kettle and screw the element into that. I dont really want to get all the stuff to have a coupling or half coupling of that size pulled through. What size does the hole need to be in order to fit the element and part of the threads through? Can I just use a 7/8 hole like the 1/2" couplings? That would make it convenient so I would only need to get one punch...
 
So, I get home to start R&R and have a giant pile of boxes, an hour and a half later they are all empty and my stuff is on the floor of my office.

I am starting to build it, and I am NOT going to finish ... way too much stuff to do in too little time, and everything is taking longer than expected with lots of unexpected problems. Which is what brings me here right now.

The enclosure I opted to go with is 14ga steel. I didnt realize what that meant at the time ... but it is THICK. How do i punch all the holes I need? I searched these forums and found some mentions of 'water cutting'. I'm starting to entertain the idea of drawing up the two faces that need to be cut and having it done. Any advice on the methods of cutting that are out there? Advice on doing it myself?

I dont want to spend an arm and a leg on this, but I dont want a piece of junk when its all said and done.

Thanks!
 
Thanks man. lol.

I already have the enclosure, and I already spent $109 on it... So I'm trying to figure out how to make this work... you know?

Perhaps i'll use plastic and sell this enclosure? I dont know, accepting ALL ideas.
 
Ah. I was in the same situation you're in. I got the enclosure (18 gauge) for free and had it powdercoated for free. I did it myself with a step bit for round holes and a jigsaw for rectangular holes. It was pretty easy, but it was also pretty messy. Lots of little metal shavings. Just tedious really. But I enjoyed doing it.

Since you bought it... use it, and DIY.
 
So, HHP. did you use it?Do you have a finished pic? I really like those sloped front boxes!
 
Those sloped/console style enclosures are badass! I have been trying to find one on eBay but am not having any luck. $110 is a bit steep to swallow.

Not sure what other style of enclosure I want to do. I will not be mounting it, so I don't want to do the typical big rectangles everyone uses. Really like the metal toolboxes, but can't find a decent one. First world problems.
 

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