No Chill Experiment

After reading the Exploring No Chill thread, I'd like to do an experiment for myself.

Since I already brew two 5 gallon batches at a time, one will be chilled, the other no-chill.
I want to keep the recipe simple, so I'm thinking a balanced Smash recipe. Each 5 gallons will be:
8.7# Maris Otter
0.6 oz First Gold 9.5% at 60m (40m for no-chill)
0.5 oz Golding 5% at 20m (Cube Hop for no-chill)
1 packet rehydrated US-05
OG - 1.050
Mash at 154F
90m boil to drive off SMM

I've done a few MO smashes, so I know what to expect there, and I want the malt & hops to be balanced, with mellow english hops that won't overwhelm off flavors. If all goes well, I'll brew a light lager as the next part of the experiment.

Since I don't have a cube yet, I was going to let the no-chill just sit in the covered 8g boil kettle for 24 hours before pitching. I know it will suck in about a quart of air, and I find it hard to care much about it.

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions, unless your comment is "You will get ruined/infected beer", because that is why I'm doing it.

I think you will find that it works quite well. I am interested in hearing your results. My SNPA no chill is awesome!

I'm interested as well.

/subscribes

My first no chill is bottle conditioning right now and my second is in primary. I haven't chilled in a cube yet either...I use my Ale Pail. I just walk by and bleed a little air in every once in a while for the first little bit.

I'm still waiting for my cubes to come off of backorder, but I'll be watching this thread intently.

Alright, I'm set to brew this in the next week.

Pol, I was especially curious if you had any suggestions on the hopping schedule, which is largely based on your chart.
And while I said Smash above, and then quote 2 hops, I want to use up the last of my older goldings before breaking into the fresh EKGs from hopsdirect.

gxm said:

Alright, I'm set to brew this in the next week.

Pol, I was especially curious if you had any suggestions on the hopping schedule, which is largely based on your chart.
And while I said Smash above, and then quote 2 hops, I want to use up the last of my older goldings before breaking into the fresh EKGs from hopsdirect.

Click to expand...

I have no real recommendations... the chart that I created is the only guidance that I have currently. That may be revised down the road, but it will take further brewing and I dont suspect the changes will be drastic.

I'm brewing this now. With a 50% split of sugars, and since both boils can end at the same time, this brew day is proceeding nicely
Also, with a 90 minute boil, I've got lots of time to leisurely measure out hops, rack other beers to kegs, etc. As I was kegging a beer last night, I realized that with no chill, I don't need the fermenter ahead of time, which is one more thing not to worry about on brew day.

Chilled Ale is pitched @ 68F, 5 gallons, 1.048 @ 60F.

For the No Chill Ale, since I don't have a cube, I star-san'd the lid on the kettle, and put the lid on at knockout. Also, I let it sit for 10 minutes before adding the cube hops.
I'll pitch this tomorrow night.

For those with containers on back order from US plastics, I talked to them yesterday and was told they have plenty of cubes--they're out of lids. Lids due in Friday or Monday. I'll be watching the gxm experiment (fwiw I did 5 or 6 no chill batches last summer but without a suitable cube. First few were fine, no different than the same recipe chilled, then two infected so I went back to the chiller. When the pails POL recommended get here I'll try again... lots of advantages to doing it no chill).

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages to no-chill?

Pangea said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages to no-chill?

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No water needed for a chiller

No chiller needed

No waiting to chill the wort

HEAT will help to sanitize the fermentor

Ability to make a RWS. (Real Wort Starter) from the beer you are brewing, no need for DME

I think it is quite common for the German homebrewers to leave the hot wort in the fermenter to chill, and then they pitch the next morning.

Also. Single infusion is not that common, most of them seem to do multi step mashing in a preserving boiler equiped with a stirrer. The same device is then used to boil the wort.

Zum Wohl!

The Pol said:

Ability to make a RWS. (Real Wort Starter) from the beer you are brewing, no need for DME

Click to expand...

When you make a RWS, do you ferment it at the batch's intended temp & then pitch the whole volume? Or do you just pitch the slurry?

DerBraumeister said:

I think it is quite common for the German homebrewers to leave the hot wort in the fermenter to chill, and then they pitch the next morning.

Also. Single infusion is not that common, most of them seem to do multi step mashing in a preserving boiler equiped with a stirrer. The same device is then used to boil the wort.

Zum Wohl!

Click to expand...

Welcome DerBraumeister. I'm always curious to hear about homebrewing in other countries. Do you have any German homebrew links to share?

What would be the difference in using a RWS in No-Chill vrs Chilling? Could'nt a person still use a RWS and pitch a day or two after brew day? The fermenter is as safe a spot as a cube isn't it, especially if the cube is the fermenter?

cz

roylee said:

For those with containers on back order from US plastics, I talked to them yesterday and was told they have plenty of cubes--they're out of lids. Lids due in Friday or Monday. I'll be watching the gxm experiment (fwiw I did 5 or 6 no chill batches last summer but without a suitable cube. First few were fine, no different than the same recipe chilled, then two infected so I went back to the chiller. When the pails POL recommended get here I'll try again... lots of advantages to doing it no chill).

Click to expand...

I received my (2) 6 gal winpaks without the lids and no packing list to indicate they were on backorder.. Guess I need to make a call.....

I'm interested to see how this turns out. It's just another thing I could see myself trying.

gxm said:

Welcome DerBraumeister. I'm always curious to hear about homebrewing in other countries. Do you have any German homebrew links to share?

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Knock your self out (all in German)....
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www.hobbybraeu.de - Andi's Heimbrauseite
besser bier brauen! bei brauherr.de
Braulotse.de ... die Internetseite für Brauer
http://www.hagenrudolph.de/Bier/Bier/Rezepte.html
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Bier brauen - Homebrewing - Lehrl
iX 10/2002, S. 144: Internet-Infos
Witzige Bilder und lustige Fotos von dekorierten Betrunkenen und Besoffenen

I´m actually scandinavian, and last weekend I brewed an American Pale Ale from German malt using Australian BiaB mashing. The internet is truly a wonderful thing...

gxm said:

When you make a RWS, do you ferment it at the batch's intended temp & then pitch the whole volume? Or do you just pitch the slurry?

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Ferment at about 70F, and pitch the whole thing.

Chris Z said:

What would be the difference in using a RWS in No-Chill vrs Chilling? Could'nt a person still use a RWS and pitch a day or two after brew day? The fermenter is as safe a spot as a cube isn't it, especially if the cube is the fermenter?

cz

Click to expand...

You can, it came about during no chill though because you have to wait about 24 hours to pitch anyway. You could do this with a regular batch. The only difference in no chill is that the fermentor is heat sanitized and a regular fermentor is not, probably doesnt matter.

I pitched the NoChill Ale tonight with rehydrated US-05. The gravity was little lower at 1.046, so I must not have split up the sugars as well as I'd thought.

I'll post my initial tastings when I keg these in a couple of weeks.

Brewed up a No-Chill Cascade Pale Ale about a month ago and it turned out nice. I did end up dry hopping it with some additional Cascade as I didn't take into account the late addition hops sitting at near boiling temps for an extended time. Cube hopping next time...

Used the US-05 yeast cake from the Pale to ferment a No-Chill Summer Citrus Wheat and the sample of that tastes great as well but will need to dry hop it as I didn't cube hop.

Racking a No-Chill clone of Stone's RIS onto the yeast cake today. Adjusted the hop schedule on this one, added at 40 minutes instead of 90.

Love this method and hope it continues to work as well as it has. Certainly saves some time and a LOT of water on brewday.

rmseven4 said:

Brewed up a No-Chill Cascade Pale Ale about a month ago and it turned out nice. I did end up dry hopping it with some additional Cascade as I didn't take into account the late addition hops sitting at near boiling temps for an extended time. Cube hopping next time...

Used the US-05 yeast cake from the Pale to ferment a No-Chill Summer Citrus Wheat and the sample of that tastes great as well but will need to dry hop it as I didn't cube hop.

Racking a No-Chill clone of Stone's RIS onto the yeast cake today. Adjusted the hop schedule on this one, added at 40 minutes instead of 90.

Love this method and hope it continues to work as well as it has. Certainly saves some time and a LOT of water on brewday.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the updates.

So i keep hearing "cubes" or "jerries"...what is the actual USA product that people are buying to do this? is it the Natural 5 Gallon Containers from usplastics.com? I'm really interested in trying this out.

I use these: 5 Gal UN Approved Plastic Carboys - US Plastic Corporation

I never thought this would be such a controversy. No chill is a part of every batch I brew. I use the Ale Pail bucket and a blow off hose. After the brew is complete, I do a whirlpool and pour into the bucket. Then I place the lid on and place the blowoff hose in the sanitized milk jug. Why blow off tube? Water will get sucked in when the wort cools if using a standard air lock. There's no way an entire hose full of water gets sucked into the pail. My other sanitized milk jug is filled with wort and used as the starter since it takes far less time to cool. In the winter, the wort is ready to pitch after an overnight cooling. In the summer, it can take up to two days in the basement. My copper and garden hose wort cooler has sat untouched for a loooong time now.

My reasoning is that it seems more sanitary to pour the boiling hot wort into the sanitized bucket and seal it up than it is to cool the wort in the open air and then pour it in. Now I'm curious. I think for my next pale ale, I might do two 5 gallons and have a blind test.

For those in the know, is there any difference between the plastic carboys mentioned here and the 10 gallon water jugs you can pick up at Costco or Sams Club?

hal2814 said:

For those in the know, is there any difference between the plastic carboys mentioned here and the 10 gallon water jugs you can pick up at Costco or Sams Club?

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Probably just the thickness.

gxm said:

I pitched the NoChill Ale tonight with rehydrated US-05. The gravity was little lower at 1.046, so I must not have split up the sugars as well as I'd thought.

I'll post my initial tastings when I keg these in a couple of weeks.

Click to expand...

I kegged these two last night. Both still have a slight "young" aroma, which usually goes away after about a month.
The flavor of each beer is very similar. If anything, the no-chill beer has a fuller hop flavor, but I could be making that up too. If it exists, it is very subtle.
SWMBO could not tell the young, uncarbed samples apart, and she has a pretty good palate. In general she tells me when a beer is ready, since I'll overlook minor flaws, and she says "Bleh, not ready yet".

So far, the chill/no-chill experiment seems to be pointing to "different process", and not "flawed beer". Since I brewed these two, 3 of my last 4 have been no chill. I really like the easy brew day, and I'm saving about 50 gallons of cooling water for the 10 gallon batches.

It'll be another few weeks before these get carbed and served side by side from the kegerator.

wait. Can I use my six gallon plastic bucket and simply pour my boiling wort directly into that? then use a blow off into a large container w/ sanitized solution until it cools?

then pull the blow off tube or lid off and pitch my dry yeast?

Also, what is a Real Wort Starter and why would want want to use it?

pnj said:

wait. Can I use my six gallon plastic bucket and simply pour my boiling wort directly into that? then use a blow off into a large container w/ sanitized solution until it cools?

then pull the blow off tube or lid off and pitch my dry yeast?

Also, what is a Real Wort Starter and why would want want to use it?

Click to expand...

You are going to suck A LOT of that sanitizer into your bucket, I can tell you that. There is A LOT of shrinkage of the headspace and the wort while it cools. NOT a good idea.

RWS is where you use the actual wort you will be fermenting as the starter solution. The yeast will be accustomed to the wort environment that they will eventually be pitched into. You will have a more active culture to start the ferment quickly (important if your wort has been sitting for more than 24 hours already IMHO). You no longer have to buy DME for starters.

Hope this helps

pnj said:

wait. Can I use my six gallon plastic bucket and simply pour my boiling wort directly into that? then use a blow off into a large container w/ sanitized solution until it cools?

then pull the blow off tube or lid off and pitch my dry yeast?

Also, what is a Real Wort Starter and why would want want to use it?

Click to expand...

Whirlpool your wort and let cool to 185-190 F, then transfer to the sanitized (better safe than sorry) bucket. I've done it this way for the last three batches. I have a thermometer that came with my turkey fryer that seals into the grommet in my ale pail lid pretty tight.

As the wort cools, it sucks the thermometer into the grommet and keeps everything sealed up. If you're worried about the pressure differential (it's like 2 psi) run by every couple of hours and bump whatever you're using to keep the hole plugged. I tried sanitized foil over an airlock once, that worked too.

This works great if you're pitching the next day.

Asked this in another thread and didn't get a response, so I'll try again here.

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

smellysell said:

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

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I'd read on this board and elsewhere about fermenting in a corny.
Some thoughts:

1 - Using a tall thin fermenter. Yeast will have a longer distance to travel to fall out of suspension. Not sure if this really makes a difference.

2 - Where do you put your airlock? If you use a post hole, thats a pretty small hole that could easily clog in a blowoff situation. If you're brewing 5g batches, and you put them in a 5g container, you'll see plenty of blowoff.

That said, give it a shot. Let us know how it turns out.

I've decided to experiment with a batch using this method.

I did not order a special "jerry". I just poured the hot wort into my Ale Pail and placed a cotton ball in the airlock.

By the next morning, the wort was at room temperature. I placed it in my wine fridge to come to 60 degrees (I was brewing a Kolsch/Wheat). The next afternoon, I pitched my yeast. It's been two weeks and I'm bottling tonight.

I've tasted it several times and I can't tell the difference between this no chill beer and a chilled beer. I would think that by tasting it while it is young, any off flavors would be readily apparent.

The next test will be the finished beer, but it will probably be August before I can take it to the next club meeting to see if anyone else can taste any off flavors.

I've realized that I probably should have chosen a different recipe as this recipe had 50% wheat and any haze will be disguised by the cloudiness of the wheat.

smellysell said:

Asked this in another thread and didn't get a response, so I'll try again here.

Anybody see any concerns with using a corny to no chill ferment in?

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Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

The Pol said:

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

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Maybe you could get the beer out post to stick to allow air to escape (or be sucked in in this case). Just cover it with some tin foil. I'm talking about the little pin in the middle, push it down and to the side so that it doesn't seal the post back up.

Just a thought.

bakins said:

I use these: 5 Gal UN Approved Plastic Carboys - US Plastic Corporation

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The Pol said:

Just the issue of the vaccuum formed when it cools, plus the complete lack of headspace for fermenting. Both I am sure you can get around.

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Where is the headspace in a 5 gallon plastic carboy?

babalu87 said:

Where is the headspace in a 5 gallon plastic carboy?

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Probably isnt any, or very very little. This is why I use 6 gallon HDPE containers. OR you can use Foam Control.

chefchris said:

Maybe you could get the beer out post to stick to allow air to escape (or be sucked in in this case). Just cover it with some tin foil. I'm talking about the little pin in the middle, push it down and to the side so that it doesn't seal the post back up.

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

I was thinking I'd just take the entire post out.

smellysell said:

I was thinking I'd just take the entire post out.

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Yup, probably easier.