Propane...Low Pressure, high pressure, orifices? What does it all mean?

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CollinsBrew

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I'm slowly piecing together my single-tier brutus type system and have been scouring this forum for all of the information I can get on burners, regulators, solenoids and pilot lights.

I live in Florida where natural gas in your home is a rare commodity so I'll be using standard 20lb propane tanks to fire my stand. I love this hobby because I get to build things on my own. I also love it because it allows me to fuel my second favorite hobby of being a cheapskate and scouring the internet for sweat deals.

Anyway, I want to get the best bang for my buck overall when it comes to burners and propane. Since I'll be operating three different burners on brewday, I want to go with burners that aren't going to use up a whole tank of propane for a ten gallon batch. It's looking like low pressure uses less and all I would need is the appropriate regulator on my tank. However, will low pressure burners give me enough heat to efficiently boil 10-12 gallons of wort?

The jet burners look cool but seem to come with their own set of problems so I have been looking at these two from agrisupply.com:

BG-14 High Pressure Cast Iron Burner
http://www.agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=64494&cn=5400001&bhcd2=1290186759

Burner Cast Low Pressure Multi-Hole 6"
http://www.agrisupply.com/burner-cast-low-presure-multi-hole-/p/40282/cn/5400001/

Can I mix and match on the same regulator with these?

Then next step will be to automate two of them with solenoids and a pilot system. I've been looking at ASCO and Honeywell stuff but am not sure which types of valves to go with.
 
There are literally hundreds of threads that deal with this exact subject. Do a search. You also talk about being a cheapskate but you will find very shortly that propane is anything but cheap.
 
Many homebrewers have gone ahead of you with the low pressure propane and Honeywell valves which seem to work quite well for them. The standing pilot furnace valves and pilots are about the easiest to work with, and most cost effective method for safe gas burner control. With a budget figure of about $80 for each controlled burner,add $25-$30 for one transformer,and $30 for one low pressure regulator for entire system. The choices for temperature controllers are about the same in capability and priced around $45 or less, one each for each temperature controlled burner. If you are an Ebay shopper you can use the part numbers to purchase the components for less than new prices if time is not a factor, and you have patience
A parts list and links can be found in the various threads, or else PM me and I will send you part numbers and links to suppliers so you get started with pricing and purchasing.
 
There are literally hundreds of threads that deal with this exact subject. Do a search. You also talk about being a cheapskate but you will find very shortly that propane is anything but cheap.

Isn't that the truth! The best price I've been able to find around here on a refill for a 20 lb. cylinder is $12, which will go about 5 standard (60 min. boil) brews. I'm thinking seriously about having our propane supplier run a line from our bulk tank to the garage (about 35 ft.) so that I can fuel my burner for about half.

However, after reading quite a bit about it on the forum, I've decided that if I really want to go cheap, electrifying my brew kettle is the way to go....there's no way that 220VAC isn't going to be far cheaper than the alternatives.
 
Collins,

Hey brother I live in Jax out in Mandarin, and I just got done building a single tier setup with converted Sanke Kegs, (low pressure LP) BG-14 and the smaller 6" ones as well, burners controlled via Honeywell furnace valves ect.. I don't have any problem boiling 10-15 gallon batches. I also have well documented parts lists and drawings (which I will soon be sharing on here) that I can share with you if you like. I am actually going to be doing a Stone Levitation clone tomorrow afternoon with SWMBO, so if you aren't out burning holes in the sky PM me and you can come on by and check out the Puckered Penguin Brewery!!

Nick
 
Sweet...I'd definitely like to check that out.

As far as all of the other threads that exist on the subject...I found many, but from all of the threads and the too many varying opinions, I was having trouble finding any discernible information.

My question still remains as to what, in the world of propane, is high pressure and what is low pressure?

I'm a cheapskate when it comes to purchasing parts and equipment. I like to save money where I can. I know propane, like gas in your car, is a neverending expense.
 
Sweet...I'd definitely like to check that out.

As far as all of the other threads that exist on the subject...I found many, but from all of the threads and the too many varying opinions, I was having trouble finding any discernible information.

My question still remains as to what, in the world of propane, is high pressure and what is low pressure?

I'm a cheapskate when it comes to purchasing parts and equipment. I like to save money where I can. I know propane, like gas in your car, is a neverending expense.


Pretty big difference between high pressure, and low pressure. High pressure is 10 PSI, and low pressure is about 6 oz. Residential appliances run on low pressure. Usually outdoor items are high pressure. A grill for instance is low pressure, and a turkey fryer is high pressure. The benefit to using high pressure is an adjustable regulator. They are usually from 0 to 10 PSI. Hope that helps.:mug:
 
Does this mean I can run low pressure and high pressure burners off of say, a 0-30psi regulator and control the low pressure one(s) with a needle valve?
 
However, will low pressure burners give me enough heat to efficiently boil 10-12 gallons of wort?

It seems the whole premise of the question revolves around the above statement.

Yes indeed. LP-LP is a great setup to boil 10-12 gallon batches. My tank usually last at least 5 brews on Brutus, and I do some sanitizing also during every batch...
 
Does this mean I can run low pressure and high pressure burners off of say, a 0-30psi regulator and control the low pressure one(s) with a needle valve?



Possibly...I think it would be a lot easier to use the same pressure burners if your going to run them on the same line. Once you get the needle valve set, if you change the h.p. Regulator you will be changing the needle valve again. It would be a never ending battle of twisting knobs. A low pressure burner can work on a high pressure regulator, but not at very high pressure. I actually have a low pressure burner from a water heater on a h.p. Regulator, and it can't be turned up very high before it stops working properly, but it does work.
 
If you plan on controlling the gas via a valve like a Honeywell gas valve you will need a low pressure regulator. There are very few control valves for high pressure propane. IMHO it is foolish to run a low pressure system off of a 0 to 30 PSI propane regulator. Eventually you will damage the valve. Kladue has given you some good ideas on valves but they require low pressure regulators and burners and they are more than enough to boil 10 gallon batchs.
 
Yes Lonnie, that was one of my main questions. I just got the back issue of BYO with the Brutus build in it yesterday and saw that you were running everything off of a low pressure regulator.

I've found the 6" low pressure burners for $9.99 but can't seem to find the bigger BG-14 low pressure burners for less that $40 each. Seems like a huge price jump for 4" of burner. The high pressure BG-14's I've found for just under $30. In a burner, what makes it low pressure or high pressure? The orifice? The carb vent?

EDIT: Lonnie, just tried to PM you for the Brutus Ten plans but your PM box is full. Probably full of other HBT'ers asking the same thing!
If you don't mind, and the file size isn't too big, you could e-mail them to me at [email protected] Thanks!
 
The difference in the operating pressure for the same type burner is the size of the opening in the gas fitting on the burner, the lower the pressure, the larger the opening. Another factor is to be aware that when the gas pressure is reduced the burner output is reduced as well because the low pressure gas can not move as much air into the burner. What might be rated at 200K BTU's at 30 PSI will be operating at about 80K BTU's on 11" propane, not a problem because the burners seldom operate at more than 50-70K because the flames will roll up the sides of the pot and not do much at higher levels.
The $30 10" high pressure burner from AG Supply is the same as the other low pressure 10" burners, the difference is the gas fitting which can be drilled for low pressure operation on the lower cost burner.
 
Good to know about the orifices kladue. I'll do a search on here and see if I can find how far to drill the orifice out. When you say drill out the orifice, are we talking about drilling out everything and having to even retap the threads?
 
Good to know about the orifices kladue. I'll do a search on here and see if I can find how far to drill the orifice out. When you say drill out the orifice, are we talking about drilling out everything and having to even retap the threads?

No, you are drilling out the gas opening (making it larger) for low pressure operation. Here is the chart for low pressure orifice openings: http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/lowp_chrt.html
 
for the 10" burner, remove the gas fitting, turn the pipe thread side up and the small opening gets drilled out to 3/32", that is all that is needed for conversion to low pressure. If after test firing the burner and adjusting the air shutter to get the flame tips to show a faint yellow at the tips, and you are 50% closed, then stepping up one numbered drill bit size is advised. Repeat test to get yellow tip flame at 75% open, that will leave some room for adjustment in the future as the burner rusts in normal use.
 
Thanks for all of the info. I was confused earlier about what you guys were talking about drilling out but I got it now. I thought there was modification on the actual burner when it's actually just drilling out the fitting that screws into the burner. I have seen the light and will be tapping the orifice soon...that's what she said.
 
for the 10" burner, remove the gas fitting, turn the pipe thread side up and the small opening gets drilled out to 3/32", that is all that is needed for conversion to low pressure. If after test firing the burner and adjusting the air shutter to get the flame tips to show a faint yellow at the tips, and you are 50% closed, then stepping up one numbered drill bit size is advised. Repeat test to get yellow tip flame at 75% open, that will leave some room for adjustment in the future as the burner rusts in normal use.

That right there is good info. Just what I was looking for. Thanks kladue!:rockin:
 
Collinsbrew, check out http://www.stcvalve.com/ which has some alternatives to the ASCO red hat valves. I got myself 2 of the 2W160 valves which are a fair bit cheaper than the ASCOs. Haven't put them to use yet but there are some who have and no bad words said about them. Good luck. Make sure you post lots of pics! :)

Sent from my iPad using HB Talk whilst having a delicious homebrew!
 
+1 for the 2w160 solenoid valves, those are what I use. Absolutely satisfied. Price has gone up and I have seen guys using the valves from vales4projects.com . I may use them for my next Brutus build. I use a 0-30 psi regulator at the propane bottle with high pressure BG-14's. HLT and Boil kettle are big flame (1.5 inches high with orange tip), the mash gets turned down to about 1/2 in high once the strike water is up to temp and before dough-in/ recirc starts. Works fantastic. My bottle will last 3 brews easily. High pressure!
Snake10
 
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