Flat first brew

issue is at 4 weeks in the 24oz bottles my first beer, a full extract kit red ale, is flatish. I am about to bottle a porter and dont want to make the same mistake twice.

(1) flatish. I can swirl it and get some residual head in the glass but there is no effervescence in the beer itself.
Messed up the priming sugar as I didnt stir, just poured gently. I put #'s on my bottles. had two bottles from two ends of the bottle process and same result. Had great sanitation of my bottles, no soap residues, bottle brushed and well rinsed (paranoia). have stored at 68-70 degrees for 4 weeks. Read to turn over the bottles to wake up the yeasties in the bottles and have done it on half and not on half with no change on the shaken versus the non shaken.

Is it something that I may have done in the bottling process or could it have been in the brewing phase or just sit on it for a few more weeks.

(2) there is no hop flavor unless I swirl it, then I get some hint of it on the nose. So the beer tastes super malty. I like it. hop character might come out later??? Not too worried, but since I was typing thought I would ask.

I like the process of elimination, but I fear I will be out of beer before I get the answer!

Gracias all who have come before me and for all of the great feedback from the beer sages!

You may just have to give them more time. You could try to put them in a slightly warmer spot for a few weeks. It may help.

Before Revvy says it, three weeks at 70 is the MINIMUM. some take longer.

How did you do your priming sugar?

Rick

freisste said:

Before Revvy says it, three weeks at 70 is the MINIMUM. some take longer.

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He's had it bottled a month.

Rick

Which is more than the minimum, but there is no maximum.

(P.S. I totally missed the 4 week note...)

F250 said:

He's had it bottled a month.

Rick

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But it's in 24 oz bottles. The 3 weeks is for 12 ounce bottles. Bigger bottles = more time.

The principle is still the same, there are NO real bottling problems, only patience ones.

A larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...

Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...

Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...

BigKahuna said:

Simple. It's the ration of contact area just like in a keg. The c02 will need to pressurize the head space (Which takes LESS TIME) in a bigger bottle (More Yeast and sugar, roughly the same head space) but then it has to force that c02 into solution through the same contact area...thus it takes longer.

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Here's some folks who have actually experienced it.

Kerin said:

In my experience, a 22-oz container will condition more slowly. This has only been apparent to me with beers that are really slow-conditioning anyway, like my red ale that I screwed up. It had some pretty significant heat-related off flavors that disappeared from the 12-ounce bottles WAY before they left the 22s.

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bscott1011 said:

I have done both 12 and 22 oz bottles. About the only difference I have seen is the big bottles take a few days longer to carb. They do save bottling time (less bottles to sanitize,fill,cap). Somehow I seem to run out of beer faster though

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mcwilcr said:

I regularly use both 12oz and 22oz bottles with no noticeable taste difference. The 22 ouncers might take longer to carb up but by the time I get around to drinking them I have never noticed a difference.

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joelshults said:

I always bottle my batches into 2 cases of 22oz bombers and then end up with a little left over that goes into a couple of 12oz bottles. In my experience, the 22oz bottles usually take longer to carb. Sometimes 1 to 2 weeks longer (4 to 5 weeks total bottle conditioning time).

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AnOldUR said:

Well here's one to support the 22oz taking longer.

When trying to convince people to not carbonate in growlers, you have talked about the CO2 pressure building up in the headspace and then being absorbed into the liquid. There's the same amount of surface area and volume in the neck of a 22 or 12 ounce bottle. Wouldn't the greater ratio beer to surface area make the CO2 absorb slower in the larger bottle?


edit:
Should of read the whole thread first.
Now I see your BigKahuna quote.

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You're not going to get much hop flavor (if any) from a red ale.

Cool. Having not seen the carb process before, didnt know if it was a gradual increase or one day magical bubbles appear.

Ill sit on it for a while, drink it in the meantime and observe what happens.

Thanks!