Yeast starter gravity problems

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berley31

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Ok, can someone help me with this... I've been making yeast starters for my last 8 batches of beer. I've been following the procedure correctly, from what I can tell:

- 1 g DME per 10 mL water, boiled, cooled, pitched into sanitized glass container with smacked and inflated yeast pack, swirl every time I go past.

After 24 hours or so, there seems to be activity as you can hear gas releasing when you swirl it, and it gets a good head of foam when swirled.

HOWEVER, every time I take a gravity reading after it should be done, I get anywhere from 1.030-1.040... instead of the 1.010 it SHOULD be.

Suggestions? I've asked a lot of experienced brewers about this... no one knows what it could be. Anyone else ever have this problem? Do I just need to buy/build a stir plate?
 
How are you taking gravity? If you are doing a 1L starter it would take 1/2 the starter to fill the tube for the hydrometer. Even if its 2L... You say "every time I take the reading." That would take a lot out of the 2L or the 1L.
 
Well, this last time I had the starter in the fridge and the yeast settled to that bottom. I poured some of the wort into the vessel I use to drop in my hydrometer... but it only takes 100 mL to get a reading. I then use my hydrometer.

It normally takes you 500 mL of a 1 L starter to get a gravity reading???
 
I'll be captain obvious here...

When you pour your starter into the hydrometer tube, are you taking it straight from the fridge and reading it while it's cold?

If so, your gravity could be several points lower than the reading depending on the temp.
 
I've taken readings where I let it come back up to 60 F, and readings where it's been cold.

When I've taken them cold, I've used the hydrometer adjustment on Beersmith to get the correct reading.

And even if it WAS several points lower, we'd still be talking about a gravity of maybe 1.036 at best... but, no, I've always adjusted for temperature.
 
I should also mention that I HAVE calibrated my hydrometer... it reads 1.000 in distilled water, so...

I'm obviously doing SOMETHING wrong, just not sure what.
 
First post, here goes.

I thought 1.030-1.040 was what you wanted? Seems like 1.010 is too low.

Edit: Oh, I see, that's your FG. What's your SG?
 
CA-LT1 said:
First post, here goes.

I thought 1.030-1.040 was what you wanted? Seems like 1.010 is too low.

Edit: Oh, I see, that's your FG. What's your SG?
Click to expand...

I don't usually take a SG, but I did once and it was about 1.040, as you would expect.

The reason I don't measure the SG is b/c if the procedure I follow is correct, and all the instructions out there seem to indicate that it is, it should be 1.040 or thereabouts anyway.
 
Well, how does the batch turn out? Is the starter accumulating a decent amount of yeast on the bottom? I would guess, if it's working...
 
[a] How often are you swirling the vessel?
What is the temp of the yeast when you pitch
[c] If you use 1g of dme to 10ml of water, you will get a wort of 1.037. You are saying that you are hearing and seeing activity and the OG goes up?

Even if you gain a few OG points during the boil-off, I cant imagine what is going on here.
 
CA-LT1 said:
Well, how does the batch turn out? Is the starter accumulating a decent amount of yeast on the bottom? I would guess, if it's working...
Click to expand...

There SEEMS to be a decent amount of yeast on the bottom, but to be honest I've only done 8-9 batches of beer so far, so I don't have a lot to compare to.

Also, my last two batches of beer have had stuck fermentations (a California Common at 1.026 and a Pale Ale at 1.030), so I've been thinking maybe it has something to do with the starters.

Even if it doesn't, this problem is weird.

I even emailed Jamil, and he just said my technique is obviously flawed. I know that it is, but.... flawed how? He couldn't specify.
 
jalgayer said:
[a] How often are you swirling the vessel?
What is the temp of the yeast when you pitch
[c] If you use 1g of dme to 10ml of water, you will get a wort of 1.037. You are saying that you are hearing and seeing activity and the OG goes up?

Even if you gain a few OG points during the boil-off, I cant imagine what is going on here.
Click to expand...


a) Swirling whenever I pass by... I mean, sometimes I'm at work and can't do it as often, obviously, but I try to start it when I'm home for at least several hours, and I swirl for 30-60 seconds every 5-15 minutes.
b) Temp of the yeast... the swelled smackpack, you mean? I'd say room temp, so 70 F or so.
c) I can't really explain it... but this is what my hydrometer is telling me, and has been for several batches. I haven't taken a reading for EVERY starter I've done, but I have for at least four, and it's always been 1.030-1.040.
 
berley31 said:
Ok, can someone help me with this... I've been making yeast starters for my last 8 batches of beer. I've been following the procedure correctly, from what I can tell:

- 1 g DME per 10 mL water, boiled, cooled, pitched into sanitized glass container with smacked and inflated yeast pack, swirl every time I go past.

After 24 hours or so, there seems to be activity as you can hear gas releasing when you swirl it, and it gets a good head of foam when swirled.

HOWEVER, every time I take a gravity reading after it should be done, I get anywhere from 1.030-1.040... instead of the 1.010 it SHOULD be.

Suggestions? I've asked a lot of experienced brewers about this... no one knows what it could be. Anyone else ever have this problem? Do I just need to buy/build a stir plate?
Click to expand...
Is the starter wort 1 g DME/ 10 mL solution after being boiled? If you start with 1 g DME/ 10 mL water and then boil, you will concentrate the starter wort. Check the gravity of the starter wort next time.
 
I'm sorry if I missed it, but what exactly is the procedure?

You make the starter, cool it, add the yeast, cover with sanitized foil, and swirl each time you go by? You let it sit at room temperature for 2-3 days? When do you put it in the fridge?

It sounds like it's just getting started when you put it in the fridge, so that it doesn't ferment. Next time, don't put it in the fridge- just let it ferment out. Then brew with it.
 
YooperBrew said:
I'm sorry if I missed it, but what exactly is the procedure?

You make the starter, cool it, add the yeast, cover with sanitized foil, and swirl each time you go by? You let it sit at room temperature for 2-3 days? When do you put it in the fridge?

It sounds like it's just getting started when you put it in the fridge, so that it doesn't ferment. Next time, don't put it in the fridge- just let it ferment out. Then brew with it.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much it... I had read that starters are usually fermented out within 18 hours, but I leave them longer than that. Usually at least 24 hours... a lot of what I've read seems to indicate this is good enough... maybe not?

Also, as a test, I took out the one I have in the fridge now and left it at room temp all day... when I took a grav reading it was still at 1.030... hadn't budged.
 
"Is the starter wort 1 g DME/ 10 mL solution after being boiled? If you start with 1 g DME/ 10 mL water and then boil, you will concentrate the starter wort. Check the gravity of the starter wort next time."

1 g DME/10 mL water is how I build the starter... everything I've read has called for starters to be built this way, and then they have to be boiled, so...

I've taken a reading before fermentation before, and it was about 1.040, as all the directions called for it to be.
 
How are you sanitizing the bottle? Yeast + sugar = alcohol. You have sugar but no alcohol, which means you don't have yeast. Either you are knocking them out cold too early or you are killing them. Pitching them at too high a temp. or with sanitizer left in the bottle.
 
pkeeler said:
How are you sanitizing the bottle? Yeast + sugar = alcohol. You have sugar but no alcohol, which means you don't have yeast. Either you are knocking them out cold too early or you are killing them. Pitching them at too high a temp. or with sanitizer left in the bottle.
Click to expand...

I'm sanitizing with a properly-diluted solution of StarSan... put some in the gallon jug, shake for awhile, pour out. The foam shouldn't hurt the yeast any more than it would when you sanitize a 6.5 gallon carboy before pitching, right?
 
But have you used the starters? Has the yeast you say dropped out ever worked in a batch? I find it very strange to be checking the gravity on a starter to begin with. Are you doing it just to see if anything is happening? Because you could probably tell it's ready when the yeast are dropping out, as you say they have been, at least when you put the latest in the fridge.
 
suprchunk said:
But have you used the starters? Has the yeast you say dropped out ever worked in a batch? I find it very strange to be checking the gravity on a starter to begin with. Are you doing it just to see if anything is happening? Because you could probably tell it's ready when the yeast are dropping out, as you say they have been, at least when you put the latest in the fridge.
Click to expand...

Maybe this is all just overthinking on my part; I'll be the first to admit that. But it doesn't make any sense, anyway.

I've made some beers, even one with a gravity of 1.072, that finished fine and the beer was tasty. Mind you, I've heard of people claiming to make great beer without even MAKING a starter.

Either way, I have two stuck fermentations right now, and I can't think of anything to blame other than the yeast.

Maybe there's no answer to my question; but I DID want to double-check, in case anyone has had this happen before.
 
It seems like everything that is mentioned to you is replied with "I am doing it perfectly properly"

I think that you just need to start from scratch and really pay attention to technique. It must be user error and at times it pays to pay close attention and be honest reflective on your technique.

If you were indeed doing everything properly, you would not have a 1.040 starter after you let it ferment out.
 
jalgayer said:
It seems like everything that is mentioned to you is replied with "I am doing it perfectly properly"

I think that you just need to start from scratch and really pay attention to technique. It must be user error and at times it pays to pay close attention and be honest reflective on your technique.

If you were indeed doing everything properly, you would not have a 1.040 starter after you let it ferment out.
Click to expand...

It may come across as being defensive, but trust me, I'm not feeling that way. I haven't been doing this for years or anything.

It's just frustrating because I really have no clue; I wish I could say it was because I was actually reading 1.003 instead of 1.030, or that I was sanitizing with bleach and not rinsing, or that I wasn't aerating at all, but I can't.

Ideally, I'd like to have access to a stir plate and see if that helped, but I don't know anyone that has one. I guess I'd have to build one to test that theory out.

But, the method I outlined in the beginning is exactly how I've been following it, so I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
 
Did you say [a] the yeast type you are using and the 'use on date' of the yeast.

With all that is said it sounds like your yeast supplier may be a weak link. With multiple stalled batches and multiple failed starters... that is all I can think of at this point, man.
 
jalgayer said:
Did you say [a] the yeast type you are using and the 'use on date' of the yeast.

With all that is said it sounds like your yeast supplier may be a weak link. With multiple stalled batches and multiple failed starters... that is all I can think of at this point, man.
Click to expand...


Hmm.. they've all been Wyeast, various types. Except for one case, the production date was actually always within a couple of weeks.

I guess my two main potential problems are possible inadequate aeration, or maybe I'm not actually giving the starter enough time to ferment out.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.
 

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