Bad Nottingham Experiment with Pics

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Fletch78

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I started this today, with the bad lot number etc.

Ignore the "122" on the thermometer, that's a default alarm setting that can't be turned off, it is not the temp of the probe. The temp is on the left side of the display.

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91 degrees, packet says 92 is the upper limit for proofing.

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I put 1/8 teaspoon of the yeast in, set the timer for 15 minutes, according to package instructions.

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I noticed this in the packet, yeast sticking to the sides. I'm no expert, but I think that's a no-no. Can anyone shed light on this?

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Tick Tock

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I never noticed any visible activity, the only thing I noticed is that some of the floating pieces began to sink around 12 minutes. Nothing remarkable or noteworthy.


According to packet instructions, I stirred all the yeast into suspension after the 15 minute mark.

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I made some 'wort' with table sugar and water. I got it to within 5 degrees of the yeast solution temperature.

Side by side.


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Combined Wort and yeast.

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I poured off a tube of the solution. Starting gravity is ~1.027


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I'll update whenever I see a change in the hydrometer, or obvious lack of change. I followed the directions to the T. Now we'll wait and see.
 
I only used Nottingham a few times. I remember some of the yeast sticking to the inside of the packet. My beers took off and tasted okay so I'm assuming the yeast I had was good.
 
I used Notty the other day and it definitely stuck to the sides of the package. I didn't have any problems with it and it is fermenting fine.
 
i wouldn't count this dead until you try it in actual beer wort. i don't know that you're 'supposed' to see activity when you rehydrate the yeast.
 
To the OP...

Ignore all of these replies that are brushing this post off as insignificant.

You are completely correct with what you are doing and it shows that Notty has a problem right now. You do make one mistake in assuming that the yeast sticking to the side is bad. This is simply static electricity that is unstoppable. The amount of yeast left over is not a problem at all if the rest of it that got in the wort is healthy.

For some reason people did not acknowledge that you mixed this with sugars to actually see if fermentation was taking place. I agree that there is no way to tell except for giving it time. And in your experiment time is not an issue so more power to you.

I am one who has had my last two of three Notty packets go to sheit. The one was the same numbers as the bad batch. I pitched it anyway to try and save myself a couple bucks but expected that it would not work. I ended up pitching a different lot number and it worked very well. I assumed that the bad batch was the problem and it was my attempt to save money that led to no fermentation.

This last week I brewed and attempted to rehydrate a batch of Notty from a completely different lot number... No activity at rehydration and no ferment. I know this Notty package was not of the bad lot... I did check that. Since I had never had a bad Notty satchet other than the bad lot I never assumed I would have any other problems. Well I was wrong. This packet was bad also. I ended up having to pitch a Muton's sachet just to start fermentation.
 
can't draw any conclusions here until the OP follows up... he kinda left this thing hangin....

I've never had trouble with nottingham... but I've had other dry yeast packets which didn't proof.. I pitched them anyway and EVENTUALLY they started... maybe I didn't get as good as results as I would have hoped with the late bloomers....
 
Great pictures! Bottom line is that this yeast did not "proof". Please continue to keep us apraised of any developments. I have anothe pack of this yeast lot and I think I will try the same experiment today.
 
Great pictures! Bottom line is that this yeast did not "proof". Please continue to keep us apraised of any developments. I have anothe pack of this yeast lot and I think I will try the same experiment today.
When I used to rehydrate it never "proofed" in water, regardless of the brand of yeast or the strain. Lallemand and Fermentis yeasts have both looked like that before pitching.

Proofing requires some kind of sugar solution, like wort.
 
To make this a fair experiment, I went by the packet directions verbatim. I, like most people, usually just pitch the yeast directly to wort when making beer, I only rehydrate etc when making higher gravity stuff. But since this is an experiment on whether or not it's a bad packet, I had to go by the directions on the packet.

The packet says not to add sugar for rehydration. Therefore, I didn't.

As of this morning, the gravity in the test is actually higher, 1.031 from some evaporation I suppose. I don't know why else it would be different. I suppose the fact it's 10 degrees cooler could alter it, but I thought that worked in the other direction, I'm not totally clear on that.
 
He did add sugar.
He added sugar after and has not posted anything yet about that. He mentions not seeing any "activity" while rehydrating the packet and my comment was that I have NEVER seen activity while rehydrating a yeast packet, regardless of the brand.

It seems as though everyone posting that they are continuously not having any issues with this batch are being completely ignored and people are focusing on the people who are having problems. The numbers are about equal and I'm not 100% sure the yeast is to blame yet. Especially since I'm drinking my second very tasty beer brewed with this yeast, one that went from 1.044->1.009 in a matter of a few days from pitching and had a 4 hour lag period.
 
He added sugar after and has not posted anything yet about that. He mentions not seeing any "activity" while rehydrating the packet and my comment was that I have NEVER seen activity while rehydrating a yeast packet, regardless of the brand.


With Lalvin EC-1118, and REd Star P. Cuvee, and even with Fleischmann's for some old timey recipies, I've always seen activity during rehydration. The reason I've never seen activity during rehydration with beer yeast is because I normally don't rehydrate it. So, it's completely normal for me to have expected to see some activity during rehydration.
 
As of this morning, the gravity in the test is actually higher, 1.031 from some evaporation I suppose. I don't know why else it would be different. I suppose the fact it's 10 degrees cooler could alter it, but I thought that worked in the other direction, I'm not totally clear on that.

Density increases as temperature decreases. Hence, higher SG after it cooled down more.
 
Ok - I duplicated Fletch78's experiment. However, my yeast was obviously "good" yeast. It rehydrated well in 76 degree water. Five minutes after pitching my yeast had a nice layer of foam on top. After 20 minutes it was actually bubbling and the foam was about 1 inch thick.

Conclusion: My yeast (Nottingham) tested good. Fletch's yeast was not so good....
 
...looks like a quality control issue to me....


It probably something as simple as how they were stacked. I know from stacking sod, that if you pile stuff too high, the product on the bottom gets burnt up. That would explain why some are good and some are bad. If they stacked them too high when shipping from Austria, the distributors who got the packets from the bottom are screwed, and everyone who gets the packets from the middle and top 2/3 have no problem.

I'm heading back to the LHBS to upgrade to White Labs until this gets sorted out. Saturday is my brew day. It's my first all-grain, so I don't want to 'wait and see' if it works out. I'm like a teenage virgin girl who wants my first time to be perfect.
 
I'm not an engineer and I don't have a science background, but if certain packets from the same yeast lot are good and others are bad, I have to think it might be a result of how this lot was packaged.

I would be less suspect of the handling issues but I assume this could be a cause also.

I have not used this yeast before but I do have 4 packages at home. Until this gets sorted out, however, I will use another yeast.

I'm I correct that there are two different lots of Nottingham that are now suspect? One lot was recalled by the manufacturor last year; right?

From a marketing point of view, I can't imagine a more dire situation than having two lots of yeast go bad back-to-back. ...if true, this would be a business disaster for the company.
 
I bought two packets to repitch a batch of Ale that started at 1.065 and stopped at 1.036.
Both packets are from lot 1080961099V. Repitched dry yeast a week ago with yeast energizer. Not even a slight movement in gravity.
Today I tried rehydrating first. No signs of any activity in the rehydration jar after an hour, and down the toilet it goes.
Picking up some Coopers or some Mauri today and trying again. (I really don't want to spring for another smack-pack on this one.)
 
I think the biggest threat to the company is the idiots
on this newsgroup.

Chris

I think the biggest threat to this forum is the idiots on here who can't believe that there's a bad batch despite the fact that the same problems are happening to a lot of people.
Just because the yeast is working for some people doesn't mean other packages aren't faulty. And the repeated blaming of people for problems that may have been caused by the yeast is really frustrating.
Don't blame the company's quality control issues on the brewers using the product.
 
I think the biggest threat to this forum is the idiots on here who can't believe that there's a bad batch despite the fact that the same problems are happening to a lot of people.
Just because the yeast is working for some people doesn't mean other packages aren't faulty. And the repeated blaming of people for problems that may have been caused by the yeast is really frustrating.
Don't blame the company's quality control issues on the brewers using the product.

Well, somebody gave me a thumbs up!

Chris
 
I think the biggest threat to the company is the idiots
on this newsgroup.

Chris

I don't think name calling is a good way to make your point. If you have something productive to add to this discussion great. If not, I don't think anyone really wants to hear your obnoxious drivel.
 
I think it's Nottinghams fault that people are "idiots" and that other people spout "obnoxious drivel." To test this theory, I rehydrated some Nottinghams and then came back and checked this forum. And voila! there were still idiots AND obnoxious drivel, showing that Notty's is clearly responsible for both! :D
 
How about we get the definitions correct.

rehydration - adding warm water to the dehydrated yeast
proofing - adding some sugar to rehydrated yeast
 
I think it's Nottinghams fault that people are "idiots" and that other people spout "obnoxious drivel." To test this theory, I rehydrated some Nottinghams and then came back and checked this forum. And voila! there were still idiots AND obnoxious drivel, showing that Notty's is clearly responsible for both! :D

OK That's atleast kind of funny. I don't mind being insulted as long as you put some thought into it. :)
:mug:
 
Yep, rehydrating good yeast has *always* produced a good layer of foam and yeast "slurry" (best way to describe it) for me, after the few minutes of sitting in the tepid water without any extra sugars. To have the pellets sink like that would lead me to believe that a good majority of the yeast is indeed dead.
 
How about we get the definitions correct.

rehydration - adding warm water to the dehydrated yeast
proofing - adding some sugar to rehydrated yeast


I think you're mixing "correct" with the ways in which you and people you know tend to use them. Both are basically the same.

from Webster's dictionary:

"proof - : to activate (yeast) by mixing with water and sometimes sugar or milk"

Since there are carbohydrates built into the packaged yeast you are technically adding sugars to the yeast when you add water. Fermentation should be initiated with just the package of yeast and water.
 
All the bull**** is tiring me. I've got some DAP and GoFerm. Should I coddle it like a wine yeast before making up my mind? This bull**** over nomenclature is not constructive, there are pictures and descriptions to quell any inconsistency of definition.

The LHBS didn't have any Cali Ale for me, so I got some East Coast. They also scoffed at my suggestion there is bad Notty.

Either way, I'm set.

And if BOTH fail, I've still got some wine yeast I'll put in.

And if that fails, I'll use bread yeast from the grocery store. At least I get it free there, on my girlfriend's brother's baby-momma's WIC card. Bread yeast has never failed me, and I've used it on several non-beer brews.

For this topic, I just happened to look down at my brand new Notty and see it was 'suspect'. When I started this topic, I fully expected it to ferment out just fine. I did not expect that it would fail. It has failed. Yall have no idea how bad I wanted that hydrometer to fall so I could chime in and say "The yeast is fine, you are all idiots." That is not the case.
 
All the bull**** is tiring me. I've got some DAP and GoFerm. Should I coddle it like a wine yeast before making up my mind? This bull**** over nomenclature is not constructive, there are pictures and descriptions to quell any inconsistency of definition.

The LHBS didn't have any Cali Ale for me, so I got some East Coast. They also scoffed at my suggestion there is bad Notty.

Either way, I'm set.

And if BOTH fail, I've still got some wine yeast I'll put in.

And if that fails, I'll use bread yeast from the grocery store. At least I get it free there, on my girlfriend's brother's baby-momma's WIC card. Bread yeast has never failed me, and I've used it on several non-beer brews.

For this topic, I just happened to look down at my brand new Notty and see it was 'suspect'. When I started this topic, I fully expected it to ferment out just fine. I did not expect that it would fail. It has failed. Yall have no idea how bad I wanted that hydrometer to fall so I could chime in and say "The yeast is fine, you are all idiots." That is not the case.

I'm with you bro:mug:
 
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