Can I culture yeast from Juniper Berries?

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COLObrewer

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I want to brew a new concept beer with it, Poor Scots Strong Ale.

Do I simply make a starter wort and drop the whole berries in?

Or, is it better to just set some wort out near the juniper trees for a week?

Is it going to be Saccharomyces cerevisiae?

Is it going to have bacterium in it?

How do I get the bacterium separated?

Thanx all!!!:rockin:
 
Wow I thought you were smoking something when I first read this. But it is a source of a yeast culture, I don't know what or which. Check out this discussion in a sourdough forum - Juniper Berry Yeast
Wild stuff, it sounds like it is difficult to culture to a strong stand, but I wonder if sugars were used instead of starches (flour), could it be easier.

Dave:)
 
I have no idea what kind of yeast that would be, but I think feeding it DME rather than flour would get a lot better reaction.

As far as the bacteria goes, I suspect spraying the berries down with starsan would kill the bacteria and leave the yeast. Or -- absent anything to kill the bacteria, it might work the same way as culturing wild yeast from the air.

There's only one way to find out -- experiment.

You might also want to post this in the lambic section. Those are probably your best experts on the subject.
 
. . . .Juniper Berry Yeast
Wild stuff, it sounds like it is difficult to culture to a strong stand, but I wonder if sugars were used instead of starches (flour), could it be easier.

Dave:)

That's an interesting read, thanx for the suggestions, I think I'll first try to place the berries in a starter wort and see what happens. A week should give me what I want, if there is yeast then, I will wash and store it for the Poor Scots Ale.

Keep on brewing my friends:mug:
 
Put the berries in a starter and treat it as they do for fruit for making wine. I believe they treat with metabisulfite to kill the bacteria. Or just sulfur? Hopefully a wine maker will chime in. Yooper?
 
I want to brew a new concept beer with it, Poor Scots Strong Ale.

Do I simply make a starter wort and drop the whole berries in?

Or, is it better to just set some wort out near the juniper trees for a week?

Is it going to be Saccharomyces cerevisiae?

Is it going to have bacterium in it?

How do I get the bacterium separated?

Thanx all!!!:rockin:



If the berries have that white layer on them give them a try.


If it's in your capacity make an agar plate and gently swipe the berry across the sample. And, when the sample grows. Take a look at what you got. You'll be able to discern this from that.
 
Well, I drove out back today to find some juniper berries:
4703323667_6e83b903b9_b.jpg


A good candidate, if you look closely you can see some of the berries that I rubbed off the yeast from (green spots on them):
4703323131_ddfd4c5121_b.jpg


There were also some of last years on the ground that still had yeast on them:
4703323917_2a117ae292_b.jpg


So I harvested a few from the tree and some from the ground, placed in my 2qt starter jar:
4703960882_cfd4a0ccf0_b.jpg


Boiled up some DME (10 minutes) with some colorado hops of unknown variety:
4703960204_2691999bd7_b.jpg


Cooled, aerated and poured on the berries, wort was 1.027SG from amber DME:
4703960080_2c8e0abcd3_b.jpg


If this works I plan to use it for this:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/poor-scots-strong-ale-168864/

Brew on my friends:mug:
 
Yea, I wasn't sure about that so I didn't try it.

I would think this would take off fairly quickly if there is Saccharomyces cerevisiae on those berries, we'll see in a day or two. I have it in the cellar and go to swirl it every time I think about it.
 
I'm going to have to try this. There are a ton of juniper berry bushes around my neighborhood. I also can't wait until some of these wild hop vines start to flower. We'll see how many other people have the same idea that I do.
 
Killing off the wild yeast is great for wine, but they are also adding their own yeasts later. I think that if you want to use the yeast that is on the berries it will be important NOT to use sulfites or starsan to start with.

However, if you only want the yeast, then try culturing with lab dishes and use their techniques for harvesting. There must be a standard technique for wiping the white stuff off the berries. There is a good chance you will get some other stuff in there as well. Bacteria is everywhere.
 
Killing off the wild yeast is great for wine, but they are also adding their own yeasts later. I think that if you want to use the yeast that is on the berries it will be important NOT to use sulfites or starsan to start with.

However, if you only want the yeast, then try culturing with lab dishes and use their techniques for harvesting. There must be a standard technique for wiping the white stuff off the berries. There is a good chance you will get some other stuff in there as well. Bacteria is everywhere.

I was hoping this would take off faster than any bacteria would be able to catch hold, it's been 5 days and finally starting to see a tiny bit of foam on the top, there's also some trub, it looks like yeast, but we'll see. I'll take a picture if things get dramatic. Hopefully the hops will retard the bacterium.

Keep on brewing my friends:mug:
 
COLObrewer,
The best way to get yeast is the way our ancestors did; fermentation! It selects for yeast, more or less.
Most likely the series of things growing in your ferment would imitate a lambic, as was posted above.
First, some kind of bacteria, then after a day to a week, a Saccharomyces or closely related yeast would dominate. Later on, Brettanomyces and some bacteria.
Culture out of the active ferment and you'll get some kind of yeast. You could do a few starters from different areas in the juniper patch, taste them and culture from the one that tastes OK.
 
JohnMc,
Thanx for the info, I'm still confused on the whole 2 week thing. Why does yeast that has already been harvested take off within 3-4 days and yeast that is in the wild take 2 weeks? Is it strictly a "numbers" thing? Does saccharomyces have to multiply to the correct ratio in order to start? Maybe Palmers book has something, I think I have seen that somewhere.
 
I have made cider 2 ways. One is I killed all the living stuff with tablets - sodium something or other and added champagne yeast. The other way I've made it, you get a sweeter cider by adding raisins. The yeast on the raisins ferments the cider as long as it is natural cider. The champagne yeast fermented down to below 1.000. As I said, the raisins gave a sweeter cider. I don't know if the cider would've fermented without the raisins.
 
Is it strictly a "numbers" thing?
Most likely that's it, although they could be sitting in spores. Our homebrewing yeast doesn't sporulate much (though it can), I think we've selected it to do so, probably so it jumps straight away into fermentation.
Anyway, likely one berry has a few to a few hundred yeast cells on it, one colony of yeast probably has tens of millions to hundreds of millions of cells.
 
Most likely that's it, although they could be sitting in spores. Our homebrewing yeast doesn't sporulate much (though it can), I think we've selected it to do so, probably so it jumps straight away into fermentation.
Anyway, likely one berry has a few to a few hundred yeast cells on it, one colony of yeast probably has tens of millions to hundreds of millions of cells.

That's logical, I took a couple of pics at 7 days, it's krausening and you should be able to see the ever growing trub at the bottom.
4725033355_e4280a9f0b_b.jpg

4725684590_39593f9df5_b.jpg
 
So, I decided to brew with this since it appears to be making alot of nice yeast after I fed it again. We brewed up a quick batch of 80 schilling, I made it a 7 gallon batch in order to experiment with one gallon.
4778439512_31cb8a82af_b.jpg


But here is the exciting part, I pitched most of this juniper yeast in the 6 gallon batch and some in a yeast vial, then the rest in a 1 gallon batch of the 80 schilling, it seams to like 75-80 F temp, I've been playing with it, when it seemed to floculate and slow in the cellar at appx. 65F, I moved it to the house (75-80F) and it took off again, I brewed this and pitched the next day.

Edit: I racked this off the juniper berries prior to adding more wort which was appx. 1.035 gravity.
4777805773_758324b0ec_b.jpg


My plans are to see if this yeast will ferment this 80 schilling (1.054 OG) and for the 1gallon batch I will add dme or brown sugar to get it up around 1.1 OG to see if I can use it for the "poor scotts strong ale" Which (if all goes well) I will pitch onto the yeast cake of the 80 schilling, or maybe the high gravity 1 gallon batch cake.
4777805937_eb5831acd0_b.jpg


What are your thoughts?

Keep on brewing my friends:mug:
 
Subscribed. I am fascinated and want to keep following this. Hope to hear more soon.
 
This has been fun so far, some more info: We tasted the juniper starter prior to pitching and it tasted like beer, it was nice and fruity.

Another interesting tidbit was: Before I racked and fed it the second time the juniper berries would float up and down with the yeast (actually probably the co2), top to bottom, bottom to top, sometimes they would stop in the middle and change directions, this fascinated me for about a half hour one day, yeast elevators, what can I say, easily amused.:D

Keep on yeasting my friends:mug:
 
One question tho. Does it taste or smell anything at all like gin? I hate gin and the smell of juniper berries (for obvious reasons) will usually remind me of gin. Chalk it up to a bad experience in college 20+ years ago that I will never repeat.

I am intrigued by the harvesting of wild yeast. But if this creates a flavor or aroma that even approximates gin, I'm out.
 
One question tho. Does it taste or smell anything at all like gin? I hate gin and the smell of juniper berries (for obvious reasons) will usually remind me of gin. Chalk it up to a bad experience in college 20+ years ago that I will never repeat.

I am intrigued by the harvesting of wild yeast. But if this creates a flavor or aroma that even approximates gin, I'm out.

Not at all, and I wouldn't expect it to. I'm not using juniper berries in the brew, only the yeast off of them for fermenting it, you see what I'm getting at?:D

Keep on brewing my friends:mug:
 
This is a bit late but figured I'd throw it out there. I've never tried this technique, but I've read in other yeast harvesting threads about adding chlorine dioxide tablets to samples because it kills any bacteria present but does not affect yeast. They are commonly used in aquariums and so are available at pet stores (And I've seen them listed on several of the large online HBS's). Sounds like it could have been useful for you though.
 
For getting rid of bacteria you could wash the slurry with diluted lactic acid, ph 2. You'll find it if you look for acid wash. Even better, get into pure culture technique, so you can isolate a pure yeast clone.
 
I'm getting very excited about my new yeast, I got home from work yesterday and found that it has kraussen!:ban: In fact it appears high kraussen has receded, it may be a little hot in the house, appx. 78F.
4782245583_0164ef32ae.jpg
4782880142_a32606848f.jpg


I split the 1 gallon batch and added 3/4 cup brown sugar to one and 1cup to the other:
4782880306_ea615611c3.jpg


Two hours later they both went nuts again:
4782880218_a09a68fccb_b.jpg


I mislabeled the one with 1 cup, it should be 8.83%, I'll keep building both of these alternately now to see what it's alcohol limits are.

Keep on yeasting my friends:mug:
 
I went out on my bike yesterday and found the motherload of juniper berries. I will subscribe the son to pick me a batch today. Looks like a fun experiment. Please keep us updated.

Yes, and surprisingly easy, a little patience and anyone can have this yeast (If you have access to the berries, probably any berries). People actually do this sort of thing all the time with wine and cider etc, right? The wild yeast on the skin of the fruits? I guess the only difference is this is culture from a few berries for use later?
 
I guess this is kind of on topic.

There is a Italian prune tree in my neighborhood that is LOADED with fruit. The look like they are coated with the same color of "powder" that is on juniper berries. I have always assumed it was yeast as well. Anyone ever tried this same thing with prunes? Was thinking of giving it a try if I don't get a ton of negative response.

Tim
 
Try it. The white powder might be wax too, but there's yeast there too! If it has a nice flavor remains to be seen, but give it a try. Fruit is after all the natural biotope of saccharomyces.
 
Now that you say it, I have a wild plum tree in my back yard. They are covered with a fine white powder as well. Might make an interesting mead/melomel yeast.
 
Here's the latest, added another 3/4 cup of brown sugar to the lower gravity batch making the equivalent gravity at ~1.116. added 1.75 cups to the higher gravity batch making it ~1.173 E.G. Now I'm starting to feel guilty, poor yeasties.
4790126409_901ebab293.jpg

Krausen had dropped some, I added the cooled sugar and swirled, we'll see what happens.

Keep on yeasting my friends:mug:
 
Try it. The white powder might be wax too, but there's yeast there too! If it has a nice flavor remains to be seen, but give it a try. Fruit is after all the natural biotope of saccharomyces.
Yep, but other fungi or bacteria maybe as well. Sugar's all good and good for all...
Even better, get into pure culture technique, so you can isolate a pure yeast clone.
+1 vote on that.
 
Here's the latest, the 6 gallons of 80/ finished primary at appx. 1.012 (Will probably drop more in secondary) the sample tasted good without any off flavors, no diacetyl, I racked it off to get the yeast, which I washed and stored.
4804811863_ff603656b6.jpg


Also, since it is pie cherry season here, I went to a local orchard and purchased for the mere sum of $20, 6 gallons of juice and 4 gallons of cherries. I mixed two batches and brought the must up to 17.75brix on one which I pitched 1118 yeast into. The other I brought the must to 14.5 and pitched some of the washed juniper yeast into, a day later and it's racing the champagne yeast, here's a picture before I punched it down:
4804812345_fb93ce8f2f_b.jpg


Billions of my best buddies slaving away in 68F temperature, so we now know it's happy in 68F, as well as 78F, juice as well as wort.

The two 1 gallon test batches are still fermenting, they both dropped krausen yesterday and I swirled them, the highest gravity batch is krausening again this morning.
4805522368_e548c6fe23.jpg

Why is this so fun?

Keep on yeasting my friends:mug:
 
Here's another picture of the cherry wine at 3 days (prior to punching down):
4811894855_77d9d9a8e6.jpg


Just waiting on the beer, the 80/ batch is clearing nicely and may soon get primed in a keg and left at 68F for a few weeks. The two 1 gallon batches still show signs of fermentation, I will check gravity on them when I feel it is time.

Keep on yeasting my friends:mug:
 
this is awesome!

My parents have an Italian plum tree in their yard that has a ton of yeast-covered plums on it. I'm gonna have to give this a try!
 
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