Contractor not working.

I am using this diagram for my control panel.

http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-SWA-2451-5500w.jpg

The only difference is I have two syl-2352 PID's from Auber. I don't have power to my element outlet for my HLT. I have 120v on both leads on the input side of the contactor but only get a little over 1 volt on the output sides. My BK contactor works fine and I have power all the way to the outlet. I also hear a click when I turn on the power to my BK but nothing when I turn on the HLT. I hooked up the switch for my BK to the contactor and still nothing so I know it is not the switch. I checked continuity from my SSR's to the PID's and that is fine so I know it is not a connection there. Any ideas?

Check the voltage across the contactor coil. You may have a bad neutral connection. You may have a bad coil or something other than a 120V coil.

I just checked and I have 120v across the coil. I know the neutral is good because I have the neutral to the good contactor jumpered from this one. I just checked the sticker on the sides of the contactors and they are the same.

BWN said:

I just checked and I have 120v across the coil. I know the neutral is good because I have the neutral to the good contactor jumpered from this one. I just checked the sticker on the sides of the contactors and they are the same.

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You can have my PID and we will call it good! Thats wild its not working..

BWN said:

I just checked and I have 120v across the coil. I know the neutral is good because I have the neutral to the good contactor jumpered from this one. I just checked the sticker on the sides of the contactors and they are the same.

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Let me know if you need anything or want to come over and look at mine but I am sure they are wired about the same.

Sounds like it may be a bad coil. You could disconnect both and compare readings with an ohm meter.

WAORGANY said:

Let me know if you need anything or want to come over and look at mine but I am sure they are wired about the same.

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I'm pretty sure it is wired right. I have it wired exactly like the other one and I just double checked the diagram and it is correct. If it is a bad contactor I don't mind replacing it I just want to make sure it isn't something else?

lschiavo said:

Sounds like it may be a bad coil. You could disconnect both and compare readings with an ohm meter.

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Are you saying disconnect the hot and the neutral on both coils and measure the ohms? Then compare them to each other.

BWN said:

Are you saying disconnect the hot and the neutral on both coils and measure the ohms? Then compare them to each other.

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Yes. They should measure close to each other.

Also, try to work the contactor manually. Usually you can push in the contacts with a screwdriver or something. It may just be hung up. I've seen new ones do that before.

I got 330 on the good one and OL on the bad one. I'm not sure I can push it in manually. I'll look and see.

BWN said:

I got 330 on the good one and OL on the bad one. I'm not sure I can push it in manually. I'll look and see.

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I am assuming OL is an open circuit on your meter and that would indicate a bad coil. If you want to dig into it, the coil wire may be disconnected at the terminal and possible to repair. Usually a few screws on the front will get the coil out.

Ok thanks for all your help. I think I'm done working on it for the night ill look at it again tomorrow.

You bet. Good luck with it.

After looking at it one more time(I know I said I was done but couldn't get it off my mind) I almost think the clicking sound is coming from the contactor that is not working(HLT) when hit the power button for the BK. this makes no sense to me and maybe it is just in my head. I still get power to the BK outlet when I push that button though. This probably doesn't help any but I didn't know if it might mean something.

Here are some pics in case anyone can see anything that looks out if the ordinary. The one on the left is the one that is not working.

The only thing I'd do to confirm 100% - unplug everything from the bad contractor. Get two jumpers and run one to a known good neutral, run another to a known good 120v supply. Confirm this with a multimeter at the exposed ends of your jumpers. Then touch the jumpers to the coil. You SHOULD hear a click, consistent to what you hear on the good contactor, that is the sound of the switch closing. There are three possibilities:
1 - You hear the click - that tells you the contactor is good and you can troubleshoot your wiring and switches leading to the coil to figure it out.
2 - You hear no click - this likely means you have a bad coil, and you either try and fix it or get another one.
3 - You fumble one or both of the jumpers and shock yourself or arc against the case or something in the box and shoot hot sparks of plasma all over before the breaker trips, setting your panel and eventually your house on fire - don't do this, regardless of whether you get #1 or #2 above.

-Kevin

while you should be fine with jumping the neutral to the second contactor, i purposely kept my contactors in isolation from each other. if something weird was happening with one, i didn't want it affecting the other. you may want to run a second neutral line for your working contactor.

second, i can't tell where the feed for the/either contactor is on the hot legs. are they bypassing your CB's?

The feeds are coming from the circuit breakers. One hot comes from the SSR and the other directly from the circuit breaker.

that sounds right then.

you could attempt to switch the hot ins (since they are quick connects) and see if the switch activates the good contactor. that would eliminate any upstream problems and make it either wiring on the two hot legs or a bad contactor.

I did try using the other switch and it did not activate it. At least there is no power to the outlet side of it.

so it's either down to your hot legs or contactor it seems. if the hots are right and your SSR is lighting up, i'm going contactor

Yes SSR's are lighting up. It really seemed like the one that isn't working was the one clicking. When I used the other switch. Which mskes no sense so it was probably in my head. Just for the hell of it I will run a separate neutral to each one.

If the bad one is clicking when you switch it, and you're running a neutral jumper from the good one to the bad one, I'd be concerned about some sort of short. It may be that power is finding an easier path to ground / neutral through the second contactor. I would completely isolate each contactor as previously discussed, IE non-jumped hots and neutrals. Also, go ahead and disconnect the line and load sides of the contactor and just test for continuity across the poles when it's off and when it's on. If everything is working, you should see a change in resistance.

Ok the hots from the switches are separate but The neutrals are together. Ill try and separate them and see what I get. Is it possible the coil is wired wrong? Does it matter which side is hot and which is neutral. I have them both wired the same though.

With AC there is typically no polarity issue. Check the contactor and it should show which side is common and which is neutral as well as line & load on the poles.

I removed the cover from the contactor and it definitely doesn't pull in when engaged. I ran a separate neutral and it made no difference. I checked continuity from my neutral buss bar to the contactor and I had continuity so that wasn't a problem. I then checked continuity from my 110 hot to the switches and had continuity to the switch, across the switch and all the way to the contactor. I then checked continuity across the contactor with me pushing it in and had it. So I guess the contactor is faulty unless there are any other ideas.

Power the system down (unplug it) with all switches off and then measure the resistance (ohms) across the contactor pick coils. Please post your results.

I got 335 on the good one and OL on the bad one. I am using an EXTECH 38389 meter. As long as I am measuring correctly.

The contactor is bad. You can explore it a little bit if you are game. Remove the contactor from your system and then do a probe search (ohm meter) to find out where the connection to the coil is compromised. There is a bad connection somewhere.

Or? Return it as defective and request a replacement.

Anyway, you now have the problem nailed down.

Wishing you great success.

P-J

thanks for letting us know

Thank you. I'm going to contact Auber and see if they will replace it. I bought over a year ago and am just now getting things running. With everything else I have spent another $20 for a contactor isn't that much.

BWN said:

Thank you. I'm going to contact Auber and see if they will replace it. I bought over a year ago and am just now getting things running. With everything else I have spent another $20 for a contactor isn't that much.

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Just call The owner:
Suyi Liu
Auber Instruments
www.auberins.com
770-569-8420

I'm more than sure that he will work it out with you.

P-J

Ok thanks. I actually talked to him before to get my temp probe replaced. I had no problems.

Contacted Auber and they are willing to exchange it for a new one. Pretty good customer service considering it was past the warranty.

i have been very happy with their service to date.

BWN said:

Contacted Auber and they are willing to exchange it for a new one. Pretty good customer service considering it was past the warranty.

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That is one of the reasons that I tend to source all that I can from them when I draw wiring diagrams for this communiy. Suyi Liu, in my opinion, is an outstanding business owner.

(Note: I'm not affiliated with them. Just saying.)

P-J